Author Topic: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires  (Read 2753 times)

Offline Mambocowboy

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2021, 06:33:51 PM »
So I am following this thread in anticipation for either new developments or rider opinions. My thoughts at the moment are unless someone can put out a tire that is either lighter than the Ares or has a better rolling profile/sidewall, it will be very hard to switch off of Ares Kevlar. Those tires are king in my book and aside from a few reliability issues (like blowing off the rim), why would anyone take a gamble on either these Eclat or Heresy? I love heresy as a brand and have mad respect for Eclat, but am not sure that Iím thirsting to try their new tires. Perhaps if they get a team going or some sponsored riders to rep the tires ???
I tried the Heresy ones after a year with the Ares and i like them very much.My only concern is if they will last as long.If they do they are my main tire.So far i like them more than the Ares.I m not a Heresy fanboy in any way,i ve done some bad reviews about some of their products as i have tried a lot of them (and i really have respect for them for designing original flat specific products in these hard times for flatland,i know how hard it is to design a new part and not just rebrand a generic Taiwanese oem one).
The Heresy tire is top,so are the Heresy Arrow pedals,beasts.Also the 0/15 offset fork,great for someone who wants to try both geometries without buying 2 forks.
What do you like about the heresy tires over the Ares?
I ve written a mini review if you search for Zephyr,but in a few words they are rounder and the threads give better grip for your shoe.Also the price.
Thanks!

Offline aliasdck

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2021, 07:44:29 PM »
Quote from: metalbmxer
...aside from a few reliability issues (like blowing off the rim)...

This is my complaint with most  tires on the flatland market, especially the foldable ones. They sit well on the rim when tire pressure is like 100 psi but when you start pushing pressure up to 120 psi or above you risk such a blowout. I've lost a few brand new tires this way over the  last couple of years, it really sucks to suddenly destroy ~$60 USD like that (new tire + tube). I get quite angry and sad when this happens, especially when it occurs only a few minutes after install.

I've always preferred my tire pressure to be between 120-130 psi. Would be nice to have a flatland specific tire specifically engineered to withstand up to like 140 psi or hell even 150 psi just to give some additional head room. I suspect such an engineered tire would have to weigh more though (but I'd be fine with that comprise)

The only tire I've never had this problem with has been the frequency G, I even ran them at 140 psi for awhile without issue. But the 1.75 frequency g is a bit skinny (I think it's actually smaller then they claim?) I'd be happier if it were a little wider.

I've found the S&M trackmark tire to be a pretty good tire as well: good scuff, good roll and decent life. However its bead can sometimes fail just slightly above 120 psi. So I tend to stick with the freq G just because it's more reliable.


Mal, or anyone else who is trying the heresey tire: I'd be very interested to hear how the tire holds up, a tire doesn't need to be super long lasting just hopefully isn't pathetically short. Fingers crossed it has a decent lifespan.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 07:46:02 PM by aliasdck »

Offline out~riding

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2021, 08:43:21 PM »
I am a bit skeptic because Eclat has nothing to do with flatland and this really looks to me like a slim park tire.Maybe they are targeting the street/flat ''new school'' kind of people who are not really that into flat geometries and technical stuff and just ride flat with a street bike.This looks to me more likely

Well Mal, Eclat is part of WeThePeople and they are returing to flatland.
They have a new flatland team and are developing new parts.
You can check the new frames in the other topic.

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2021, 11:27:13 PM »
Yes and WTP has a flatland history. But I think the Heresy parts are much more flatland specific than the new WTP parts. The stem for example is just a shorter version of another stem, nothing else. This is good because there are only a few shorter stems on the market, but if you compare this to the story of the ideas that went into the Heresy tire, I believe that Heresy is taking much more care for flatland. Just my opinion... In general I think WTP is a very good company.
About tires blowing off: I believe that one reason might be tolerances in the outer rim diameter and in the inner tire diameter. I always wonder why all the BMX tires slip onto the rim so easily whereas I have a foldable tire for my mountainbike which is a real pain in the ... to install because it is so tight. For this application it is not even necessary, but it makes me think that it is likely that this issue causes the problems for flatland tires at least in some cases.

Offline aliasdck

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2021, 05:48:28 AM »
Huh, I have a hell of a time installing tires onto my rims, even the newer lightweight foldable ones. Installing the last few inches of the bead are so incredibly tight and difficult to slip over, yet I still experience occasional blow outs when going above 120 on these newer foldable tires. Close inspection of the tire after the explosion and it looks like the bead has been the point of failure due to the excessive pressure inside.

Perhaps my installation technique is bad but I don't think so since I've been installing tires for many years. They are impossible to remove too without some kind of tire lever and when installing them I struggle so much I get blisters on my fingers sometimes and always curse like a sailor during the last little bit.

My rims are 20 year old hazard lights for what it's worth maybe newer rims are slightly smaller these days? And I've closely inspected the inside of the rims especially the indent where the bead goes into, no deformities or any problems that would account for the occasional blowout problems. I think the lightweight design of these newer tires just makes them more prone to failure. Hell, I'd love to have a tire that was easy to install for once, but then again maybe not if it means it'll be even more unreliable.

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2021, 12:10:19 AM »
Hello aliasdck, that is interesting. I use Sun Rhyno Lite rims, Odyssey Quadrant and others and the KHE tires, Rubena Dom tires and other are always easy to install. But if you had the blow off problem, it must be caused by something else. I typically pump to roughly 115 psi.
I can imagine that it is a challenge to produce a tire that can deal with such a high pressure in this size. Road racing bike tires are so narrow that it may be easier to withstand the pressure. But we need that and I fully agree that a tire should be designed to work with 140 psi to have some safety margin. And of course this should work with common rims...

Offline aliasdck

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2021, 06:42:36 PM »
I guess the universe wanted to prove a point. Overnight I heard a gunshot around 2AM but discovered this morning it was my tire that had exploded.

The tire was an S&M trackmark Tire. I kept it inflated to 125 psi for almost two months now and have rode on it almost daily. I knew that keeping it at that pressure was risky based on past experiences but after the first few days I started to think this one might hold up (the last S&M tire that failed like this exploded 5 min after I first pump up to 125) I hadn't topped off the pressure in a few days either, so it probably had bled down to more like 120ish by last  night.

I need to stop going over 120, probably better at like 110 but I really prefer at 125. I'll probably give a heresy tire a go, then maybe this eclat tire next. I'm not expecting them to withstand high pressure any better though, so I should probably suck it up and get used to a lower pressure.


Offline mal

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2021, 07:48:46 PM »
the Heresy is 110psi so be careful!

Offline aliasdck

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2021, 08:29:44 PM »
the Heresy is 110psi so be careful!

Of course. I'm probably going to need to get used to a bit lower pressure so that I don't keep losing tires.

Most tires available now to us are rated at like 100 or 110 psi, but I'm willing to bet some riders go a little above their tires rating. It's not smart but likely often done since most tires aren't rated as high as some of like to go. Frequency Gs for example are rated at only 100, yet I've found them to be the most reliable tire when over inflating, I've had them up to 130 for extended periods of time without issue.

But then like the ares a-class tires are rated at 125 yet I've had them fail quite frequently when inflated to that amount. Though, to be fair, they are recommended to be used on 22-25mm width rims but my hazard lite rims are around 32mm, it's possible I wouldn't have problems with the recommended rim width.

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2021, 09:38:12 PM »
Damn it, sorry to hear that! After some tires exploding in my flat (of course during the night) I started to release pressure to about 6 bar (about 85 psi) after every session. I wanted to be sure to have the right pressure and pumped the tires before the session anyway, so the only difference is that I need to pump a bit longer... So the risk of an exploding tire is much less because it only needs to withstand the high pressure in a fraction of its lifetime. Did you try this?

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2021, 09:40:08 PM »
It is really a pity. We now have reports of exploding KHE, Rubena Dom, Ares, S & M... It seems like it can happen to basically every tire.  >:(

Offline aliasdck

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2021, 10:39:34 PM »
Damn it, sorry to hear that! After some tires exploding in my flat (of course during the night) I started to release pressure to about 6 bar (about 85 psi) after every session. I wanted to be sure to have the right pressure and pumped the tires before the session anyway, so the only difference is that I need to pump a bit longer... So the risk of an exploding tire is much less because it only needs to withstand the high pressure in a fraction of its lifetime. Did you try this?

During the summer I do this, I gets hot here sometimes above 110 F (43.3 C) and inside the garage it can get pretty hot and stay hot for a long time after the outside starts to cool in the evening. I noticed that I was more likely to have explosions when the bike was stored in the garage on really hot days. Maybe I should do it year round.

Offline anthony

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2021, 11:45:33 PM »
I run the Motel works tires, those are 130 psi and I use the tire between 125 and 130 all the time, for the weight and quality is more than a great tire to me, also i have the rims sun envy with Velox rim tape and tubolito innertubes so far no problems at all, even I use rhinodillo inneliners to prevent flats. (No flats for 3 years)

Offline out~riding

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2021, 12:09:22 AM »
Some more details

Offline rpl3000

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Re: New 2021 Eclat Mugen tires
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2021, 01:19:26 PM »
Regarding the frequent blowouts. This was an early problem with tubeless clincher wheels in road racing. The problem boiled down to the rim not being still enough. They had to change the rim design to stiffen up the walls so that they wouldn't flex. Also on long descents the added temperature of braking would affect the rim material and increase the pressure slightly. MTB tubeless rim/tire they changed the fit of the bead diameter and the ERD of the rim to be closer. There is also extra material in the corner between the wall and the rim base that helps the tire seat but also increases wall stiffness.


For flat application I think a new rim shape would be needed. Something deeper dish to stiffen up the walls. Maybe there is a carbon or tubeless race rim that can be used?