Author Topic: Flat Squirrel BMX UK  (Read 37111 times)

Offline The Flat Squirrel

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Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« on: May 26, 2012, 01:07:19 PM »
Hey everybody!!
I think I have to say something to you all, as there seems to be lots of rumours and things going around about my little website.
Basically my shop is run by myself, Jonny Grogan, with a little help from the girlfriend and a close friend.
The aim of the shop was to make more flatland bikes & parts more available to everybody in the UK, and hopefully lower the prices. Also, it is to help promote the scene in the UK which I quote Jason Forde:
"UK flat needs a kick up the arse and my foot is ready!"
I have rode since the age of 6 and now I am 37, it`s a long time. I am a bmx rider & will be until the day that I cannot get on my bike, which will be a sad day :(
The shop was started up on a loan from the government to help new businesses, we only started with £2,000. This was four months ago and our stock just keeps growing. I have not taken any money out of the business, all money that I get is put straight back into the business. Of course I will have to pay myself at some point, need to feed the kids!!!!
I support the scene as much as I can, if anybody needs my help, I will help, or if anybody wants me to support a completion, I will do. All you have to do is ask!!!
There is also a discussion about me uploading video`s onto Youtube that I have downloaded from Vimeo. This is only done to promote flatland. No profit is made from this, its just a channel to watch some awesome riding! If anybody wants me to take there edits off, just ask me, I have no issues with this and I apologise if I have upset anybody :(
There is a link on the channel to my shop, but I would be stupid not to promote my own shop on my own YouTube channel? ???
All I wanted to do was set up my own little shop selling bmx parts at good prices!!!
I see comments on here about my shop all the time, like "I should support the scene" just giving riders access to parts does this in my opinion, even though I do more than just this.
Or comments like "ordered parts, hope I haven't just thrown my money away, fraud and all that!"
I am a legitimate company, if items go missing in the post, replacements will be sent or refunds issued.
Any issues just tell me, any questions, I`m happy to help if I can.


At the end of the day, BMX is my life, as it is for many of us. We should be working together don`t you think???
Anyway, rant over, its all BMX ;) The sun is out and time to go ride!!!!!
Laters
Jonny Grogan (owner of Flat Squirrel BMX)
http://flatsquirrelflatland.weebly.com/
BMX, Vdubs, Music, what else??

Offline robpossible

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 01:34:43 PM »
I'm sure you're a stand up guy, but what you are doing; downloading then uploading to another channel is not ok. It crosses a line that is just plain rude. You can promote flatland, your scene, your shop and everything you what to promote, without what you have been doing.
Think of social media like any other party, if you went from conversion to conversion and stole everyone's jokes along the way, no one would like you. It's just rude Homie. Just hit the Share button, that's what it's there for. Good luck!
Robby
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Offline The Flat Squirrel

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 01:48:46 PM »
Hey,
When edits have been uploaded onto YouTube, I have not made any claims to any of the edits. I have not said in any way that it is my work. The makers and riders have been referenced when possible. In my eyes its the same as somebody getting and old video`s from the `80s and placing clips for people to see and enjoy. I see this all the time.
It looks like I have made a big mistake whilst trying to get videos out there and seen. Many edits that are on Vimeo never make it to YouTube, and they do have different audiences, that`s another reason why I did it.
But if this is how people feel, and think I am wrong in doing this then I apologise greatly! My motives where totally innocent and no harm was intended. Just wanted to get flat noticed more :(
I am very sorry. It will not be done any more :(


Thanks man for your reply, all comments and opinions are welcome!!!
http://flatsquirrelflatland.weebly.com/
BMX, Vdubs, Music, what else??

Offline leeroy002

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 02:16:55 PM »
jonny seems like a top bloke, all the hard to get parts all seem to be in one place, so screw winstanleys use this guy instead, i dont have a problem with my footage being used on other channels, we upload videos to get views regardless of the channel, he even sent me some autum bars for the video contest, cheers man, i will definitley be using him in future

Offline robpossible

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 03:43:30 PM »
^^^I agree, Johnny seems like he only wants to support flat. I think that's a great thing.
1st law of thermodynamics: Energy can not be created or destroyed, it only changes in form.

Offline Cyberboy109

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 03:55:48 PM »
Pretty cool dude, does his best to support the scene in the uk.


Offline Lam47

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 04:37:11 PM »
Just like to add my support for Johnny and his shop.
Really honest and decent guy!
The UK needs him!
Xbox live GT. Mr Brownground

Offline Flatland-Cris

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2012, 06:55:09 PM »
Shops awesome orderd a few parts and the dispatch time was crazy quick! This whole web edit thing i dont see what the big deal is if hes still giving credit were credit is due and letting everyone know its not his vid its someone else, they should take it as a compliment!
Keep it flat!

byke

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 11:55:37 AM »
Hey everybody!!
I think I have to say something to you all, as there seems to be lots of rumours and things going around about my little website.
Basically my shop is run by myself, Jonny Grogan, with a little help from the girlfriend and a close friend.
The aim of the shop was to make more flatland bikes & parts more available to everybody in the UK, and hopefully lower the prices. Also, it is to help promote the scene in the UK which I quote Jason Forde:
"UK flat needs a kick up the arse and my foot is ready!"
I have rode since the age of 6 and now I am 37, it`s a long time. I am a bmx rider & will be until the day that I cannot get on my bike, which will be a sad day :(
The shop was started up on a loan from the government to help new businesses, we only started with £2,000. This was four months ago and our stock just keeps growing. I have not taken any money out of the business, all money that I get is put straight back into the business. Of course I will have to pay myself at some point, need to feed the kids!!!!
I support the scene as much as I can, if anybody needs my help, I will help, or if anybody wants me to support a completion, I will do. All you have to do is ask!!!
There is also a discussion about me uploading video`s onto Youtube that I have downloaded from Vimeo. This is only done to promote flatland. No profit is made from this, its just a channel to watch some awesome riding! If anybody wants me to take there edits off, just ask me, I have no issues with this and I apologise if I have upset anybody :(
There is a link on the channel to my shop, but I would be stupid not to promote my own shop on my own YouTube channel? ???
All I wanted to do was set up my own little shop selling bmx parts at good prices!!!
I see comments on here about my shop all the time, like "I should support the scene" just giving riders access to parts does this in my opinion, even though I do more than just this.
Or comments like "ordered parts, hope I haven't just thrown my money away, fraud and all that!"
I am a legitimate company, if items go missing in the post, replacements will be sent or refunds issued.
Any issues just tell me, any questions, I`m happy to help if I can.


At the end of the day, BMX is my life, as it is for many of us. We should be working together don`t you think???
Anyway, rant over, its all BMX ;) The sun is out and time to go ride!!!!!
Laters
Jonny Grogan (owner of Flat Squirrel BMX)

Dear Jonny,
irrespective of the brand you represent.
I would like to say that I too believe that promoting flatland is all very well, but give credit where credit is due by linking to a persons video clip rather than downloading it and re-uploading it to your own personal channel.

If you like a video from youtube ... add it to your favorites.
Simple as.

Then everyone is happy.

Offline The Flat Squirrel

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 12:46:44 PM »



If you like a video from youtube ... add it to your favorites.
Simple as.

Then everyone is happy.

Hey Byke,
I thought the issue was the downloading from Vimeo & uploading to Youtube?? Not just liking a video already on YouTube and putting in a playlist???
These are two different things. You can make playlist`s of your favourite videos that are already on YouTube, this is the main thing I have done. Its just like having a playlist on your iPod. All the info from the makers of the videos are there and if you view a vid on my playlist, it has the uploaders name on it & sometimes it goes to there page??? This isn`t stealing in any way whatsoever, it is sharing, so not sure what you are talking about now?????
Also, when I have done the "dirty" & downloaded a vid from Vimeo & uploaded to YouTube, it is only because it is not on YouTube so I cannot just like & share!! I personally don`t get on with Vimeo, so that`s why I use YouTube. There is a Flat Squirrel BMX Vimeo Channel, but I don`t do much on it. Not enough time :(
It has been done to spread it around and let people see the awesome edits & riding that people are capable of.
Credit has been given when the info has been available to me, and I sate again, I have never said the work is mine in anyway!!!!
Check the edits out, they have not been altered, they still have the riders names, film makers, & soundtrack artists on them. That is if the makers have put them into the edit!!
Have you a YouTube channel yourself??? If you do, you should know that you can just make playlist`s of your favourite video`s.


I would just like to add, thank`s to all the UK riders for all the support that you have given me with my little venture so far. It is very much appreciated!!


Right, the sun is out again & my arm seems to be working today, so lets see if I can get this "Time Machine" sorted at last ;)


Jonny

http://flatsquirrelflatland.weebly.com/
BMX, Vdubs, Music, what else??

byke

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 05:48:06 PM »

Jonny,


Ownership :
If the owner or creator of a video uploads a video to vimeo, then that is their decision.
And theirs alone.

They may have specifically only chosen to upload it to vimeo for reasons only known to them (maybe they don't like youtube for whatever reason - such as adverts, quality, association to google, geo blocking etc) If anyone has done this, then I believe we should respect their decision (be it conscious or not) as its no one but the owners place to change it.

Those videos belong to those who created them, end of.

If you think they should be uploaded to other sites then you should message the owners and ask if it is possible and suggest to them that they do so. But at no point should a video be removed from that of the site in which the creator has uploaded under a pretense of its better for everyone or because you think you know better.

It should not be a question of video makers needing to ask permission for you to remove their videos that belong to them that have been uploaded by you, without their consent.

Youtube Playlist and Favorites :
I believe that if you have a youtube account, that you can favorite the videos of other creators who also have their work also on youtube to be able to create a playlist or public favorites list. This allows the content to stay in the owners ownership. And allows those who appreciate their work to make reference lists to their favorite videos and keep the owners integrity in tact.

But to be honest, this issue in finding a solution for your use of youtube is not that of great importance, and if it doesn't suit you then don't use it.

Social Networking :
If having a video hosted on Vimeo causes you a problem to promote content via social networking with your company name on it. Then tough sh*t, its not yours to begin with and no excuse will justify taking it without the users consent so you can upload it to a video channel with your companies name on it as a form of cheap brand association.

However if video owners have chosen to allow their videos to be embedded from the page host, then their is no excuse for taking something that is not yours.

VIMEO versus YOUTUBE :
Quote
I personally don`t get on with Vimeo, so that`s why I use YouTube.
Strange you seem to be able to get on with it enough to be able to not only view the content but also steal videos hosted on it without the owners consent. Sounds more like you have it sussed being able to extract so much information.

Stealing :
Quote
This isn`t stealing in any way whatsoever, it is sharing, so not sure what you are talking about now??

I don't see anything in my last reply that would suggest "stealing"?

However since you brought up the subject, if you download something and redistribute it without the owners permission, Not only is it stealing but its distribution without the owners consent which in itself is a criminal offence.

But more than anything you are abusing the community who you are trying to sell to.

If the owner waives that right, then that is a different story completely.
But from what I have read, you have made no attempt to ask the owners for permission before stealing their content and loading into your own personal Youtube account.

Sharing :
Since you obviously don't understand the concept of "sharing", I will explain.
If you want to share a video that doesn't belong to you, Then you pass on the link to where the creator/owner has uploaded the video for everyone to see.

I let people use my bathroom for free, but that doesn't mean they can go in and remove my toilet so they can take it off to their house.

Boundaries between personal use and business related :
While I appreciate the X factor story on how you started up your brand, I even shed a small tear.
But it bears absolutely no relevance to that of using others work without their permission.
And using it to promote a personal business while claiming its for the good of flatland is a con.

If you want to promote flatland through videos, then either share the direct links of the content or record, edit and upload your own content.

End of comment :
I have no problem with you or your store.
I do think your last reply to justify stealing is a load of horse sh*t and will call you on it.
In fact this comment would have nothing to do with your store had YOU yourself not brought it into the spotlight and association. And while you may have customers who are happy with the products you have sold them, it has no bearing of character if you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 06:43:31 PM by byke »

Offline Flatism®

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 07:22:42 PM »
Tricky one this, and  I get what your trying to do, but I've usually seen the edits already by the time you had retweeted them.
Just a bit of feedback, but Still appreciate what your doing.
Flat-ism

Offline Bri-jon

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2012, 07:26:53 PM »
Yes VERY tricky, I'm on both your sides really... hmmm
"sh*t + talkers = stalkers lol"

Sold my bike to emigrate to Canada and still waiting for a Visa to work. Worst mistake EVER!

Offline Lam47

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2012, 08:07:43 PM »
I don't think it's fair of Byke to assume Johnny is being intentionally vindictive about this.
From what I know of Johnny he only wants the best for the UK scene.
Have people actually complained about having their edits published on his channel?
How different is this to what Flat Matters and Flatstyle do?


Assuming Johnny has ulterior motives just because he has a shop is a judgment of his character which is untrue.


Kisses.
Xbox live GT. Mr Brownground

byke

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Re: Flat Squirrel BMX UK
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 09:05:31 PM »

I don't think it's fair of Byke to assume Johnny is being intentionally vindictive about this.


Lam47, I don't think its fair you claim that I have accused Jonny as being vindictive.
I spent a long time going into great detail on the areas I thought were wrong in regards to theft.


Quote
Have people actually complained about having their edits published on his channel?
Yes some have, and have even had to specifically contact the person to have said content removed.
But either way, that logic is flawed as what you are suggesting is it is ok to steal until a victim can come forward and complain. Thats like suggesting people should be judged as guilty until proven innocent.


Quote
From what I know of Johnny he only wants the best for the UK scene.
This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
Nothing says good for a scene like "chav it"


Quote
How different is this to what Flat Matters and Flatstyle do?


Very Different.
Neither of the channels that you listed steal videos and re-host them on their own site under their own channel. Had FSB simply linked or embedded the flicks from their original location (as with FM and FS), then none of this discussion would be here.


Also, I don't see either FM or FS trying to flog stuff either.
They post to promote flat (free of charge).
FSB posts to sell flatland ... big difference (nothing wrong with that either).


And while some could claim FM or FS have brand association.
They don't in anyway re-upload videos on to their own space.
So all references to the original content is kept in the same place the original owner left it.

Quote
Assuming Johnny has ulterior motives just because he has a shop is a judgment of his character which is untrue.


Jonny doesn't go under Jonny even on here .... he uses the alias of his brand/shop.
The same way that the videos he has taken/stolen without permission and reposted on his own youtube channel (which funnily enough isn't called Jonnys channel, but uses his shops name).


I am not egging at his shop, or his character.
But the justification of his actions.


Hugs
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 09:55:22 PM by byke »