Author Topic: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?  (Read 26350 times)

Offline flaTTech

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #90 on: April 01, 2012, 09:32:42 PM »
   I don’t believe that bike shapes are going to drasticaly affect attracting new blood to flatland. Although more street and park riders may be more attracted to the street look of the double triangle frame, bigger two piece bars, and lower seats.  So it is possible that faltlanders riding that style in bigger numbers would make flatland look “cooler” to them and accept it more.  From what I have seen street riders are much more about style and “fitting in” then the average flatlander.  If the average flatlander wanted to be more accepted by a larger crowd they would just go mess around with street and park and leave flat behind.  This is probably partly what happened to flatland in the early 90s street boom.  BMX riders were leaving flat behind for street, dirt and ramps.  At least that is what I saw happen to any flat riders I rode with in the 80s..  It seemed to me like flat was left behind and became less and less accepted by the other forms of BMX..  Maybe the overall acceptance of ALL forms of riding by all riders in the 80s, and the fact that flat was much easier in the 80s is why it was so big at the time..
 
 
  Some street/ park riders do respect flatland a great deal, but I believe there is a large portion of them that don’t.  I use to ride everything, street, park, dirt, even vert ramps.  I would imagine I am one of the few flatlanders, at least riding at the level of difficulty that my flat is at, that has done a 540 on a vert ramp,  wall rides, jumped a 15 foot dirt jump double etc.  I say this to point out that I have “rode everything” or “freestyle” or what ever you care to call it, so this may give me an interesting perspective on some things.  For the past ten years I have only rode flat (and flatland is all I want to ride now!), and I don’t see the need to push flatlanders into the concept of riding everything else. Hell, flat already has very few riders why push them into other portions of BMX..  That just kinda happens anyways.  I fairly recently saw it happen with a beginner flat rider in my area, he started with some basic 80s flat and then bought an FBM street type complete and stopped riding flat to ride some street and go to the local park..
 
 

  So, where does flatland get more riders and new blood from?  Probably easier to get some riders already involved in BMX in some way to start riding flat then it would be to get someone interested in flat that is not even involved in BMX at all.  This is were flatlanders “crossing over” to street/park may help flat gain more acceptance again in that portion of BMX.  I’ve seen this firsthand.  About ten years ago I was riding a local skate park on my flat specefic bike (Hoffman EP), I was doing some flat in a small area trying to stay out of the way.  After doing some flat I decided to hit the ramps up on my EP, ha.  I busted out a huge can can over a hip jump, and received a nice response from the other park riders.  Afterwards a park rider came up to me and told me he personally thought flat was amazing, but the other park riders were making fun of my flatland, that is until I gained there respect with some jumps and later some airs out of the bowl, and some lip tricks on the mini. 
 
 

  My point is, flatland does not always get taken serious by riders in other disiplines, sometimes I’m sure they are just jealous of the ability, so they make fun of it to make them feel better. Either way it is bad for flat.  Although many riders do have respect for flat,  and “cross over/overall/freestyle” riders do help with acceptance in all forms of BMX..   A primarily flat rider riding a park, or even in a park contest is a good way to help promote acceptance and get riders interested in a flat riders approach to hitting up the park with some flat influence.  And may eventually draw them to flatland, although unlikely for most.
 
 
  As for the average person, that has nothing to do with BMX at all.  They see flatland as a circus sideshow.  I’ve been told numerous times I should be in the circus, as I bet most flatlanders have been told this. And it just looks impossible to them, so it is difficult to get them involved.  In a way progression of tricks probably does make it harder to get new blood involved, because it is very difficult, and looks very difficult.   There isn’t much instant gratification.  Flatland can be overwhelming, and most flatlanders are different than the average person.
 

  As Tod said, I also am content with people not being interested in flatland.  As long as I am interested in it.  But, I personally would prefer the perfect world scenerio were a large portion of good flatlanders made a really good living from just flatland,  and flatland had larger participation.  If potential riders saw flatlanders getting huge props on TV and winning huge dollars it might attract them to it, although not really for the correct reasons IMO.  But it would get more involved and possibly addicted to flat..  Hell, I wouldn’t mind if I had made a living from flat.  Although I am, and have always rode for myself, and the true love of riding.   An individual riding for the reasons I do will always ride for many years longer then if you are riding for other reason IMO..
 
 

  No generation of riders is to blame for flatland being so small today.  It is what it is.  There needs to be acceptance, tolerance, and support between all generations, ability levels, and disciplines of BMX.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 01:39:53 AM by flaTTech »

Offline tod miller

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2012, 01:29:44 AM »
Very well said.^^^


I too, think that more people would be interested in flatland coming from other aspects of BMX, rather than someone just coming into BMX and choosing flatland to ride in particular.   

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Offline tod miller

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2012, 01:34:21 AM »
TJ, I'll just let flaTTech respond for me.  This pretty much sums it for me in regards to your last post.


"As Tod said, I also am content with people not being interested in flatland.  As long as I am interested in it.  But, I personally would prefer the perfect world scenerio were a large portion of good flatlanders made a really good living from just flatland,  and flatland had larger participation.  If potential riders saw flatlanders getting huge props on TV and winning huge dollars it might attract them to it, although not really for the correct reasons IMO.  But it would get more involved and possibly addicted to flat..  Hell, I wouldn’t mind if I had made a living from flat.  Although I am, and have always rode for myself, and the true love of riding.   An individual riding for the reasons I do will always ride for many years longer then if you are riding for other reason IMO."
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Offline 2flat2furious

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2012, 07:09:38 AM »
It's like saying "I am glad a great pestilence came and wiped out almost everyone alive because those of us still standing are truly the ones who love living."


Offline flaTTech

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #94 on: April 03, 2012, 02:37:40 AM »

 Just wanted to clarify that I am not trying to say that pro riders trying to get some monetary return from their riding don't also love flatland.  A rider can have many different reasons they ride.  Honestly I would think any flatlander that gets really good must love it, because it takes so much effort to get to a high level.

"content" isn't really the best word to use to describe my feeling of the situation, because it implies being satisfied.  Although I have accepted that there is not a large interest in flatland.  Tod, you maybe a bit more "content" then me, because you have a fairly large and active flat scene very close to you.

It's like saying "I am glad a great pestilence came and wiped out almost everyone alive because those of us still standing are truly the ones who love living."




TJ, if your analogy is refering to flatland booming in the 80s and then seemingly wiped out by some unknown plague, for reasons nobody probably will ever fully understand, there are some differences in what I said and your analogy.



 First of all, I was not "glad" about the "great pestilence".  I would have prefered flatland to have thrived and grown even bigger through the years.


 Secondly, a plague killing people doesn't really give people a choice.  Riders that left flatland behind, whether they went to different disciplines of BMX, or just quit entirely, They had a choice in doing so.


 After the "great pestilence", flatlanders that continued and progressed probably did love flatland more then the people that quit.






 

Offline tod miller

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #95 on: April 03, 2012, 03:35:23 PM »
flaTTech, I would say having the Austin guys to ride with is indeed a luxury many don't have, but honestly, most of my riding I do by myself away from everyone.  It's been more of a personal journey and goal for me. I love the challenge.  Never been interested in comps, and have never competed(even when I was good enough to do well).  I rode street for many years by myself too.  But that's just me.  I'll ride BMX in some form or another my whole life...that's why I am content.  I am satisfied with what BMX has given me in life.  I do want more, but that's just personal growth.


But to each their own...
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Offline flaTTech

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2012, 02:08:49 AM »



 I completely understand what you are saying Tod, and your BMX journey doesn't sound that different then mine.  I have almost always rode flatland by myself, and it has always been a very personal journey and goal oriented challenge for me also.  I enjoy riding alone, I have gone as long as a ten year stretch without riding with another flatland rider.  I did ride other forms of BMX with some other riders though.  I too have never been concerned about contests (although I do enjoy the motivation that the online battles give me to get some of my stuff filmed), so I didn't even really seek them out.  During this stretch of time was before the internet, and It started to feel like I was on a deserted flatland island, because I really didn't know what the state of flatland was even in.  What I did know, was there wasn't any flat riders that I could find in my area. I enjoy riding alone, however I think it would be nice to have a large scene, and a choice to ride with many other flat riders without a lot of travel.  This would be way more likely if there was huge interest in flatland.

  Although making a living with flatland was never really one of my goals, I think it would be good for flatland if that avenue was available for a large number of the top riders.  This also requires a much larger interest in flatland.

 I have told people, my ultimate goal with riding was to ride for as long as I possibly can.  I too will always have a BMX bike in my life, even if I had it to just cruise around...

Offline 2flat2furious

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2012, 06:16:28 PM »
Quote
After the "great pestilence", flatlanders that continued and progressed probably did love flatland more then the people that quit.

That's not really the issue in question. The issue is: was it good for the sport?

After watching the simple session videos I realized that street may also have a lot of posers who are not really in it for the love of it. Street would bottom out if all those guys and the sponsors left. Should that happen? Would it be good for street?

Offline flaTTech

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Re: Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2012, 02:18:39 AM »
  No, it was not good for the sport of flatland.


  All types of riding has riders involved that have drastically different skill levels.   Because I believe there are lower skilled level riders that do love riding, and are riding for the love of it,  I agree with how you are describing a "poser" that they are not really in it for the love of riding, and because of this they probably don't put much effort into it.  Keep in mind, that to be at a really high level in street/park a rider has to put themselves into a very high risk of danger.


 I would agree that there are probably many "posers" in street, especially since there is a larger riding base, and it could possibly bottom out if they all left..


 I would hope that would't happen.  And no, it would not be good for street, companies, or BMX in general...