Could the current shape in bikes be hindering new blood?

[rideflat43]

I THINK IT IS THE STYLE ALSO AND NOT ONLY THE PARTS AND FRAMES..
I MEAN GOING TOTALLY BRAKE LESS AND THE OTHER CRAZY STYLES GOING
ON..

I STILL USE THE DYLAN BARS FROM RYAL GOODS AND BRICK HOUSE STEM AND
BAR ENDS,SUELO PEGS SET AND MAGNASIUM PROFILE 160MM CRANKS,ALL YOU CAN
NOT GET OR HARD TO FIND THESE PARTS SO YEAH I AM A BIT OLD SCHOOL IN THIS
WAY...

THERE IS THIS KID HERE IN NOR-CAL,NICK AND HE IS RIDING FLATLAND PEGLESS
LIKE CHAD JOHNSON AND THAT IS VERY COOL,BUT PUTS THE BARS WAY HIGH FOR
THOSE STARTING OUT IN THE STYLES THAT ARE BEING DONE BY NEW RIDERS!

HE IS THE NEW BLOOD YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT,BUT HOW HE IS STARTING OUT IS
WAY HARD AND HINDERS THE TYPE OF RIDERS COMING INTO FLATLAND!

[rideflat43]

THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE:IT IS JUST NOT THE SHAPE OF THE FRAME IN LENGTH
AND WAY IT IS BUILT IN SHAPE AND FEATURES AND ALSO THE PARTS ETC....BUT ALSO
THE STYLE WHICH GOES BACK TO THE STREET STYLE RIDING AND FLATLAND IS
BECOMING A BIT MORE STREET ORIGINATED  IN THE TYPE OF RIDING WHICH HINDERS
NEW BLOOD FLATLANDERS IN BOTH PARTS AND STYLES!

[bhuffman]

Back on topic.  The techier street setups and riding styles are opening up the eyes and minds to flatland I believe.

 However, more traditional flatland is being limited by the current bike setups quite a bit.  Brakeless, low tt, no platforms all make decades harder to the point where a single decade is recognized as fairly legitimate trick.  15 years ago a single decade was just one of the easiest stylish rideouts to more complicated scuffing, switching, and/or rolling combos.  A double was recognized as something legit.  Sure the pumping, pivoting and turbining stuff has been pushed quite far in terms of difficulty but isn't that just getting better at Fewer Techniques?  and is that actually growing the tricktionaries??

I've been watching KJ vids on FB and it really makes me want to go back to the "older" days of my riding.

[Bobby]

Don't forget that people are slamming their seats so far these days that cliffhanger tricks are now ruled out.
It seems to be some sort of collective evolution towards merging back to street. (tricks,setups,equipment,videos,etc) 

I see a lot of these flatland dudes repping with street dudes to make sure that they are included with team sponsorships. And they do things that the rest of "BMX" can understand. Not saying that's wrong, they are just doing what needs to be done to stay in the game.  The more they merge, the more opportunities on one hand b/c its all seen as bmx....And also more chance for street dudes to participate in flat, but not flat as we knew it pre-2006. They participate in this "streetlanding" style of 2012...

That pre-2006 flatland style is for old dudes like me. LOL!

[tod miller]

Back on topic.  The techier street setups and riding styles are opening up the eyes and minds to flatland I believe.

 However, more traditional flatland is being limited by the current bike setups quite a bit.  Brakeless, low tt, no platforms all make decades harder to the point where a single decade is recognized as fairly legitimate trick.  15 years ago a single decade was just one of the easiest stylish rideouts to more complicated scuffing, switching, and/or rolling combos.  A double was recognized as something legit.  Sure the pumping, pivoting and turbining stuff has been pushed quite far in terms of difficulty but isn't that just getting better at Fewer Techniques?  and is that actually growing the tricktionaries??

I've been watching KJ vids on FB and it really makes me want to go back to the "older" days of my riding.

+1

And why not, dude is legit.  He doesn't limit himself to one style of trick(or riding, really), or technique, or style of parts or bikes.  He rides.  That's what looks fun to me.  Bustin out, no matter what.

[rideflat43]

Bobby
slamming one's seat,no pegs,totally brake less or whatever,well
that is a type of style or bike setup and yes it hinders some type
of riding like i pointed out and also the type of frames and parts
also..which i agree on but it is is not just the frames and parts
designed..it is more complicated than that!

[tod miller]

Instant gratification and the quest for it is what is limiting flatland.  A kid sees flatland videos, thinks maybe he can bust it...gets a bike with no brakes and thinks that all flatland is pumping, whirling, tornado of tricks.  He tries, and tries, and tries...and gets discouraged when he can't do the stuff he sees, never realizing that you have to practice 10 hours a day, for years to get anywhere near as good as the slew of YouTube videos he sees.  Flatland hung its own self when it progressed so far, and only one way of riding is seen as hip, or cool...or whatever they kids are calling it these days, lol.  You got to learn to crawl, before you can sprint.  Hell, I've been back at it for 3 years now...and I'm still 20 years behind, lol. 

[rideflat43]

yeah and we still ride but the new riders do not enter
 
stalemate if you ask me!!

[cordoba]

I've heard this debate in various ways ever since I started riding over ten years ago...


Bikes don't generally hinder people, assuming you're riding a bike you're comfortable on your set up shouldn't hinder you that much if you know which direction you want to take riding. I use the word "hinder" because I see people talking about limitations but I think they're referring to being hindered in some way. Lots of riders put limitations on themselves, it's healthy, whether it's by riding more street influenced bikes because they're stronger/more comfortable or riding brakeless or riding pegless.. None of these limitations are bad if you're motivated to ride and learn.


Why? I can totally see why guys put limitations on riding, because the sheer amount of directions you can take riding is overwhelming. Chad J is peg less, by shutting himself off doing peg tricks he can focus on the infinite possibilities he can come up with in peg less riding.


Don't blame it on the bikes, in my opinion they're more refined than ever. Any techniques you've seen in the past are either being done still or can be explored by anyone at anytime. I rode 1 inch headsets, front/back brakes, double fronts, pretzel frames, not pretzel frames, etc etc etc... Now I ride a brake less double diamond frame with a lower Odyssey senior seat and I've personally never felt better about riding and all the possibilities available to me.


What may be missing from a lot of riders these days is the real hunger to progress and get better. Whether that be lack of time or lack of initiative is a case by case scenario judgement call, but if you want to progress and get good you can make it happen.

[rideflat43]

SLACKNESS
YEAH I SEE IT HERE ALL THE TIME!!
THE EXCUSES START HERE->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[pulsar]

i think it has more to do with the additude of flat riders in general. here is an example, it was my first time at a very big jam (wont say which one but it is pretty big), a certain promenent rider comes up to me, says some sh!t i cant remember, then flicks his blunt roach at my front wheel without me even saying a word. had this person not been liked by most around me, i would have knocked him clean out. maybe i wasnt riding enough for him and he thought i was a slacker. i was so amazed to see so many good riders, i just wanted to take in what i was seeing and not hide in the corner riding like i do at my home spot paying no attention to the folks around me. i am an adult so i let this incident slide but i could'nt help but to think what this would do to a younger guy who maybe looked up to this person had he done it to them. i even looked up to him before that happened.
 
another example would be again, another very promenet rider not so much in the spot light anymore but bad ass pro none the less, he has attacked me on various levels from the tricks i do or the time i was able to spend and ride with him. our lives being so different it was difficult for me to ride with him as much as he would like, even though i still rode as much as always, just not as much with him......and this guy was a good freind of mine which i've known for a long time.
 
these are not your average riders either, they are pro's or riders who hold a very high standing in flatland. so again, i thinks it's rider additude from what i see and have experianced on this forum and on the lot. this has left me feeling completely dettached from the flatland comunity. i am fine with that since this is something i do for me and dont feel the need to be part of "the group".

[crabbypaddy]

i bought a deja vu especially because it had a bend in a tube lol.


i've met a few street riders (both teenagers and young kids) and not one has verbally abused me for riding a flatland bike. sure, they find it amusing, but they're always friendly abut it and love it when i do a forkglide in front of them

i met a street rider at a skatepark and turns out he lives a few streets away from me, who saw my bike in the uni before i even met him and he said he stopped riding and looked at my bike for a good 10mins and loved my setup lol


that being said, i am far from embarrassed at riding my flat bike in the skatepark or around the uni in front of a few hundred sophisticats

[Bobby]

Despite all the trick and equipment design trends, I still think the main two barriers to entry is difficulty (very slow learning curve) and expense. Parts and frames and tires are getting more expensive these days in general. Then after that, maintenance is also an issue. Parts aren't always compatible an fit properly, etc.   Basically, people want to go out and have fun with their friends easily. Not pay a lot of money to sit by themselves, trying to get good at something that takes years to get to a decent level.

[byke]

While I dont disagree that learning flat can be discouraging and hard ..... (and a nice way to boost flatlanders own self consciousness and self values) it doesnt take away from the fact that unless kids try flatland they wont know.

And thats the point.
If flat looking bikes in the stores were attractive to everyday kids (as they were) and we saw lets say 1000 bikes sold every year (example) and out of those we then saw (example) 10 riders who looked at the bikes they had and attempted to ride flat on them and stuck with ......

Then thats 10 more flat riders (example) than selling no flat bikes and attracting 0 from not selling any flat bikes.

Metaphorically :
In the past we tralled the seas for shellfish, and this resulted in bags of shellfish and in every bag there were a few that were worth keeping.

Keeping the boat mored instead and expecting the worthy shellfish to come to the boat instead is a little naive.




If we look at BMX racing, it was in decline for YEARS.
But what changed it?
Branding and organisation .... (may not be to everyones taste)
But do you think racers really need frames that look like an octopus to win races?
No they do it for sales and attracting new blood through branding and image.

At least when we had bendy frames and gyros they served a function ( ergonomics and performance ).
While retaining a look that made them more appealing for mass market, and that resulted in a few extra riders.

[rideflat43]

LACK OF ORGANIZATION IN COUNTRIES
LIKE IN THE UNITED STATES..NO REAL SYSTEM HERE


JUST A  FEW JAMS AND CONTESTS A YEAR!