Author Topic: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest  (Read 27675 times)

Prasheel

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Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« on: March 16, 2009, 05:35:13 PM »
Okay, first off, before everyone hates me for this, I'd just like to say I almost made a new anonymous account to post this because I really don't want the CFO guys to take this the wrong way or anything...These are just some thoughts I've had about how to possibly improve for next year:

a)  This is the only thing that actually truly bothered me, the pro purse on the flyer and the actual pro purse were not the same.  I understand that it was a total purse with AM prizes, but that really should have been stated before guys get plane tickets from Japan, and Europe to come to a contest.

b)  God damn that floor, I know this is not CFO's fault, but damn it, I hate it, haha and like to complain about how much I hate it...Also I've heard magnesium powder (gymnasts use this) can greatly help with this problem if you just rub some on your tires for any future contests people go to and think the floor is a tad slippery, you might want to try this out?

c)  Expert runs were way to long.  I think the only riders that filled them up somewhat good were Dub and Percy, who placed 1st and 2nd (well deserved too!  these guys killed it).  I understand the reasoning behind it, but by the end of my runs, not only was I dying and out of breath, the audience (riders included) were probably bored as hell by me doing the same garbage over and over, haha.

d) There has got to be a way to talk to the street guys and somehow stagger events so Pro Street finals and Pro Flatland aren't at the same time.  Flatland just can't compete with Street when it comes to the general public viewing.  I know both are really busy schedules, and maybe you did try to do this, but just a thought to expose flatland better.

e)  Better pre-event hyping.  To get a better pro turn out, if the event was hyped better I think it'd happen.  All it took was one message to Matthias and Dominik from me to get them to say they were going to come.  The entire year of travelling Prasheel and I hyped this event trying to get people to come out everywhere we went (which was a lot of places).  The more riders that come out, the more entrance fee you get, the higher pro purse can be, therefore more riders will come out...It's an awesome cycle of awesomeness.

f)  I'm not a large fan of where the flatland takes place.  I realize this is probably the Bike show sticking us where they feel like it, and not really up to CFO, unfortunately.

g) Lastly, is there anyway to get larger sponsors?  No offence to Black Pony, these guys are helping flatland a ton and bmx in general, but it is a small local shop.  This is the only contest (other then Zero Degrees of Flat) that I attended in the past year that wasn't sponsored by Red Bull.  Just a thought, I know Red Bull always seems willing to throw money into events and help out the best they can (plus red bull girls walking around handing out free Red Bull...Hells yeah).

Anyways, I want to make sure you guys know I really appreciate that this event happens.  I love riding indoors at this event everytime (even though the floor hates me and I hate it), and I love travelling and trying to get riders from all over to come to the event.  I had a ton of fun this year (even if it looks like I'm angry all the time and throwing my bike, haha, that's just how I ride, I have lots of pent up anger from not riding all winter, haha).

Anyways, I'd also like to thank CFO for organizing this of course and making something happen.  I just see greater potential for this event to be like it was years ago and I hope you guys see it like that and not just me being an asshole.  Thanks to Prashant for getting the crowd into it even when they weren't very much, haha.  Big thanks to Black Pony, I actually love these dudes and how stoked they are on flatland.

This is going to be my last "anyways"...I hope some people add some constructive criticism in here, feel free to yell at me and tell me you think I'm wrong, but I'd appreciate it if it is explained why you think I'm wrong.

Okay...Hopefully this doesn't turn into a sh*tshow of hating me, haha, I swear I just have the best intentions for flatland.

:)

Offline B-random Fantom

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 06:34:07 PM »
I have an extended criticism to add:

 I think more people should be discreetly given habernero chips (and a handful not just one or two). Seeing people's eyes well-up and faces turn red was probably one of the funniest moments of the weekend for me. Next year, I think we should try and give some to the hideous security guard. I think we should also film this.
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Offline stvnlpsly

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 07:39:00 PM »
I have some constructive criticism to add...

1) Amateur Class.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I heard it a lot over the weekend and I also heard it a lot before the event.  Make an Amateur Class.  27 riders competed in Expert and I believe that more would have competed.  However, the difference in the level of riding going down at the top half of the contest and the bottom half was HUGE!!  Also, in line with what Alex said...shorter runs.  I think you could save time and have 3 classes and have it run smooth if you had shorter runs.  For Amateur maybe have two 1 minute runs.  If you broke up the 27 (say 30) Experts into Expert and Amateur you'd have 15/15... with two 1 minute runs you are still looking at only about 30 minutes give or take of contest.  I don't even think you would need to have finals.  Do this first thing on saturday.  Say noon... now the amateur part is done by 1:30pm max.  Now you have sometime for the Expert contest... maybe have a 2 or 3 minute qualifying run, then take the top 8 out of 15 and have them compete in the finals. Now the entire Sunday is reserved for the Pros.  To me it sometimes seems like the event is geared towards the AMs and that the Pros come secondary.  Maybe this (aside from the floor) is another reason that some pro's dont come out.

2) I dont think there is much you can do with the floor.  I think it was better than most years this time.  I think it worked out well when swept THEN mopped.  Instead of just mopping and smearing around the dust.  In a venue that big it is difficult (especially when you have dirt jumping/riding going on in same building) to keep dust out. 

3)  Have a "Battle Format" for the Pros.  I think that with a lot of the other "Big Contests" out there, they all use the same tried and true/fan favorite, "Battle Format"  VooDoo and the rest of the Flatland World Circuit use this format and maybe if it was adapted for Toronto after a year or two maybe CFO FU contest will be added to the "Series" which would be huge and would draw more pros! 

4) All that being said I love coming up to Toronto.  This year was the first time that I actually competed and I had a blast and felt it was a super cool laid back comp!!  TONS of AMs came out and I would like to thank CFO, the Toronto Bike Show, BlackPony (who rocks the flatland support!!) and MTF (Tony my bars are awesome!) for doing this.  It is a lot of work and a lot of us riders dont realize how difficult it is to organize and run an event like this.  It is a HUGE event for Canada and even North American flatland!  Keep it up.

If nothing changed it would be a great time.  I think some minor tweaking would be a positive thing!

I think it is cool of Alex to come out and make some constructive criticism.  I think if more riders added their input this contest could become great!  I think it is up to the AMs though as not too many pros seem to be too critical of contests for some reason. 

A final note.....what is the rule on competing and winning a contest 2 years in a row?  No offense to Percy (and even JW Provost aka Dub) but you guys are really good!  And with only 8 riders entering in pro I think both of you guys could have rode pro and still done well!  This isn't a bash to you guys, more of a compliment actually.  I am not accusing you of cherry picking, I just think next year I'd be rad to see you guys enter pro!

Offline AddisonM

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 08:13:52 PM »
I'm in favor of having 1 minute runs and a third class for beginners, I didn't want to even enter because of how vastly different the skill levels were.

Great event though, Battle format for Pro would be epic.

And one last thing, f*ck that screaming security guard. Prasheel took an awesome pic of her smiling eating a snow cone... perhaps it's time for a GlobalFlat Photoshop contest on it?
I'd rather have AIDS than buy another Nankai.

TJ Perry

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 08:39:20 PM »
. Next year, I think we should try and give some to the hideous security guard. I think we should also film this.

is that thing STILL there??

Offline AdamJ

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 09:25:07 PM »
1) Pre-event advertising, months in advance.

2) Shorter amateur runs (normally qualifying is one 1.5-2 minute run?)

3) Floor Prep, definitely sweep then mop using water/pop.  Try to get some more mops/people so the area can get done much faster.

4) Sponsors, for the Toronto Up North jam we held we managed to get a few sponsors with minimal advance notice and were told with more time we would've gotten much more schwag.

5) Prize Money, base pro purse that will increase with number of entrants based on entrance fee. (What does our entrance fee go towards anyways?).  I'd be ecstatic to see my money go towards a pro who really deserves it.

6) Rider Demo, you'll hate me but I'll say it, we need a more exciting display for flatland.  A "flashy" rider with some good energetic music playing and an enthusiastic announcer maybe talking about flatland would be leaps and bounds ahead of the current setup.

7) Rider Input, continually look for competing riders input, it can only help the contest get better and better each year.

Overall its an amazing event that will hopefully continue to be held.  Much thanks to the CFO guys for organizing it an putting it on.  Hopefully you can take the suggestions found in this thread and be proactive about contacting other riders about their feelings to create a phenomenal event in the years to come.

TJ Perry

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 09:31:20 PM »
6) Rider Demo, you'll hate me but I'll say it, we need a more exciting display for flatland.  A "flashy" rider with some good energetic music playing and an enthusiastic announcer maybe talking about flatland would be leaps and bounds ahead of the current setup.



I heard Chase requires all of his demos to be conducted in silence. Anyone paying someone to ride flatland in silence for john q public is a fool.

Offline AdamJ

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 09:36:09 PM »
6) Rider Demo, you'll hate me but I'll say it, we need a more exciting display for flatland.  A "flashy" rider with some good energetic music playing and an enthusiastic announcer maybe talking about flatland would be leaps and bounds ahead of the current setup.



I heard Chase requires all of his demos to be conducted in silence. Anyone paying someone to ride flatland in silence for john q public is a fool.

Correct.  Anyone should be able to see that if they were the general public watching this it would be kind of on the odd side.  Its especially hard when there is a GIGANTIC street section within earshot filled with thunderous yelling and applause when a big trick is hit.  It probably doesn't take more then .2 of a second to decide to leave the flatland area and go towards all the commotion and noise of hundreds of excited people.

Dominik had a larger crowd gathered around him when he was practicing near the bleachers and we didn't have to pay him to do it.

Offline AddisonM

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 09:39:59 PM »
Matthias and Dom riding to Gate Crasher.
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Prasheel

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2009, 01:03:59 AM »
I had friends and family come out to the event, and they all agree, watching the Chase demos is just awkward at best.

Offline Avram Moorey

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2009, 01:22:07 AM »
ok the floor needs pop.
and red bull girls :wacko:
 all day sat I was tired and wasn’t in the comp mood and that’s y I didn’t thro some of my newer tricks down but the time to ride in the comp was good and I like that format

Prasheel

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2009, 03:20:47 AM »
Prasheel:

Handspin, where did your amazing post go?!!!!

Offline B-random Fantom

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2009, 06:13:34 AM »
While I don't pretend to speak for the CFO, I would like to address some of the comments made above:

1- I did suggest that the runs be shorter but, this sets riders with a variety of tricks at a disadvantage so we instead told all riders during the rider meeting that they did not have to take advantage of the full time--i.e. they could bow out without penalty. I see nothing wrong with this compromise: if you don't want to ride for the whole time because you don't have enough tricks to fill the time then just stop riding at the 2 min or 2 min 30 sec mark--you were given the heads up so if you thought it was too long why didn't you stop riding earlier?

2- Battle formats--simply put, these suck. The time share is never even and it gives unfair advantage to people with longer runs since they can Bogart the clock. Not to mention, it results in even more of the same tricks displayed over and over add nausea. And the thought that it 'gets the crowd more into it' is just flat out untrue. I think that several years of battle formats with little if any growth in the flatland market as a result stands as a testament to how delusory such a view is. Everyone gets the same time to showcase their talents: this is far more fair and true to our roots than 'battles'. Just look at some of the very earliest flatland comps on youtube, the crowds dwarf modern ones and they used the individual run format. If something went wrong with flatland it isn't this kind of format that is to blame.

3-As for staggering our comp run time with the street course stuff, be my guest--I didn't get to ride at all on Sunday because the entire day was spent judging so it's beyond me how you think such a thing would even be possible. This sounds like a pipe dream.

4-As for adding another class, see the post above--there really isn't enough time to pull it all off. Not to mention, don't people really just want to ride? The more time gobbled up by the contest side means less time for everyone to jam on the entire floor and have fun.

5- As for pre-event hyping, what do you want us to do--cartwheels? you made a couple of calls or e-mails and got two guys to show up, that's great, thanks. Ask not what the CFO can do for you but what you can do for the CFO.

6- As for rider input, posting here is one option. However, I did think about possibly doing a little survey for next year to get specific input from the competing riders. As with anything, this takes time and (thankless) effort. If people only knew how many hours Chase and I spent discussing and agonizing over the specifics of the judging criteria just maybe someone would have something nice to say. I guess I can be a pipe dreamer too.

7- The Chase demos: don't presume that because it isn't your cup of tea that it isn't good for the general audience. People can see style cats with 'flashy' tricks (whatever that means... [dangling bandannas I presume?]) in practice. The demos are a chance to address the general bike show go-er and tell them some of the names of some keystone tricks so they may feel better able to follow along with what is happening on the floor. Music is blaring at all other times so I don't think a little break in the distracting background noise is a problem. Perhaps if I wasn't addressing the MTV generation, having an attention span wouldn't be an issue. If you as a rider don't like the demo then don't watch it, you are not the only person there so don't presume that your trend induced notion of a 'show' is the only one with any currency or appeal. Then again, next time, I guess a few of us could run out and hug Chase after he nails a triple decade to put on an air of 'enthusiasm'.   :rolleyes:
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Prasheel

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2009, 06:22:49 AM »
Jesus Brandon...I'm just giving my personal opinion and trying to be respectful...I'm not demanding they meet my needs...I tried to say over and over that I really appreciate what happens.  Your clear sarcasm is pretty obvious in how you feel about what I think, i even asked for people to please not be dicks about it, and you come off making comments clearly trying to humiliate me?

Like I totally knew this thread was going to turn into this too, but I tried to be respectful and just give my opinion and the opinion of friends/family on the event.  If you want to sh*t on all my ideas Brandon, go ahead, but I'm not going to give you a response of any intelligence either.




f*cking christ.

TJ Perry

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Re: Constructive Critism for CFO on Flatland Unlimited Contest
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2009, 06:27:18 AM »
7- The Chase demos: don't presume that because it isn't your cup of tea that it isn't good for the general audience. People can see style cats with 'flashy' tricks (whatever that means... [dangling bandannas I presume?]) in practice. The demos are a chance to address the general bike show go-er and tell them some of the names of some keystone tricks so they may feel better able to follow along with what is happening on the floor. Music is blaring at all other times so I don't think a little break in the distracting background noise is a problem. Perhaps if I wasn't addressing the MTV generation, having an attention span wouldn't be an issue. If you as a rider don't like the demo then don't watch it, you are not the only person there so don't presume that your trend induced notion of a 'show' is the only one with any currency or appeal. Then again, next time, I guess a few of us could run out and hug Chase after he nails a triple decade to put on an air of 'enthusiasm'.   :rolleyes:

There is absolutely zero positives about holding demos without music or someone there to hype of the crowd. The only reason that nobody is sayng anything about it is because it's f*cking CHASE CHASE CHASE. To tell people "if you don't like it don't watch it" is kind of silly especially when you have other riders at the event who clearly drew more interest than anything Chase was doing.

If it was anyone but CHASE GOUIN we would all point to it and think it's stupid, but since it is.. well.. clearly being against such a thing is an indefensible position to anyone above the MTV generation  :rolleyes: