Global-flat.com Board
English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: DRIFT ROADSTER on February 24, 2013, 08:19:27 PM
-
I havent been on my bike in quite a while, and getting back into it i needed to get some parts. I got pretty much what i needed (ordered a few min ago) . But i could not help notice that they don't have nearly as much product as what i remember 5-6 years ago. I was just wondering if business is slow for Pat.
-
Hes probly just waiting to clear out some old stock before getting some new stuff in.
According to there last email newsletter that is
-
There aren't as many people making flatland components too.
-
yeah these are good points, and i thought that myself. Bmx company's come and go. And trends change, probably why there are like two options for front brakes, i remeber having like 5+ front brakes to choose from.
-
Ares (and I think Suelo too), no longer distribute in the USA. WTP and Colony, no longer do flat specific products so there's 4 companies right there off of Pat's shelves. I also know that big companies(trek, giant, pacific cycles) get 1st dibs on production overseas. Overall bmx is a small percentage of the market so they usually take back seat to these companies. 2013 bmx product has been slow to be produced. so slow that sidewall cancelled their st. martin order and fuel (i believe) got their 2013's direct from taiwan.
these factors could have something to do with it.
-
ya i cant help but notice that theres a continuing trend these days. convenience conquers all. it happened with redbox (streaming sites too) closing video rental stores. it happened with bestbuy contributing to the demise of some of their own stores (1000+ i think) in the last five years by offering computers with huge hard drives that can download half of their products off the net. now its happening with sites like globalflat and ebay competing with actual flatland sites like flatlandfuel. i have supported all 3 sites the last 6 years but i will be honest i have made my last 5 or 6 purchases right here on globalflat. lets face it why would you pay $1200 for a custom built complete when i have found similar builds on here for $600. or $400 for a frame when you might have just found that frame you wanted from 2 years ago for $170 shipped? solution? used parts on flatlandfuel. idk. proably not. thoughts??
-
solution? used parts on flatlandfuel. idk. proably not. thoughts??
....and how do you propose that Pat acquires these used parts? Should he start taking trade-ins like car dealerships. Somehow I don't see this happening.
-
I had to agree with this. i used to shop @ FF. but since I got local flat specific shop in my country, I don't buy from FF anymore. I'm sure this happens to other country too that start having shops in their own country ( Asian country specifically)
-
Sometimes its the shipping cost that dont let me buy from ff.i live in greece
-
...and trends change.
I see a lot of positive growth happening right now among some manufacturers that is promising - mainly seeing these interesting double top-tube hybrid type frames like from Subrosa and Supercross BMX (the Extension frame). In fact, Supercross simply calls their frame a "freestyle" frame. S&M has their Intrikat... Fly has their Tierra... guys can rock flat on a Black Eye Killarado.
So, with trends going brakeless and hybrid'ish... do we really need super flat specific bikes still? Possibly, especially for the hard core flat-onloy riders, but I've seen this trend come and go in the 80's into the 90's - from very weird flatland specific bikes (like the Hutch Trickstar and the God awful Schwinn YO! bike) with platforms and pegs everywhere in the 80's kinda catering to flatland - to more subdued, very functional basic frames (like the Ozone).
I think S&M really had an influence on this function-over-form trend, making a basic-to-bones BMX frame that people loved and still love today.
So, what - if there is a "melting pot" trend happening - what does a flatland specific shop like FLF to do? Follow the trend? Re-position themselves in the market? Stick to their flat guns and don't "expand"? Who knows? This is only for Pat and his band of homies to answer.
Look what Mattias is riding now: a Haro SD V2 which is Dennis Enarson's signature frame. That's not a flat specific frame at all, that is until Mattias comes out with his signature frame through Haro. I predict his signature frame isn't going to be at all a flat-only frame, but more of a "freestyle" short'ish TT hybrid frame.
My future build will be definitely on a street frame, freestyle build - maybe it's just the old man in me that would go that way.
There aren't as many people making flatland components too.
This. The market is small and diminishing. Thanks to big companies and Odyssey and Haro sponsoring flat riders and keeping the dream alive.
-
Parts are boring these days. Nothing exciting for ages.
-
Parts are boring these days. Nothing exciting for ages.
Im a machinist, and have made custom parts for myself. Honestly there is only so much you can do. It doesnt pay to reinvent the wheel, especially when people don't want to pay for technology. How much lighter do we really need to go, the light craze has already sacrificed strength. The only thing next is Carbon Fiber. Road cyclist don't even blink and eye when they spend $10,000+ on a bike.
-
Hey I'm a cnc machinist too and there's stuff to invent. Lots of the parts are boring. Like just plain boring. The flatland magic in parts is disappearing. Carbon fibre won't work in flatland due to stress properties. Pir is one example of design innovation. St Martin has been doing well but is starting to lose some of its magic. Ares also is another company as well as others that has bought innovation in the last 2 years but now that s changing. Everything is going in the same direction which I call boring. Yeah I know its a trend but its a boring trend.
-
I'm tired of black bikes and black parts ;D
-
You also have sick child and bizhouse. They don't even sell their stuff on ff.
Well I guess you can get the gym grips though..
-
Well put. I have been slowly piecing together my next bike as I like to have something completely new every few years. I'm not into street style influenced parts. I don't like long straight tube frames. Actually I hate it. My seat pole is so high you can fly a flag from it. I enjoy my 8kg bike as it puts less stress on my bad joints and back muscles. Also a lack of colours other then black or black is boring too. Yes my bike is black as it was all there was to choose from.
-
The only flatland related part i need is pegs, and fork, tires, anything else is street parts related.
-
While this started as a commentary about how Pat seemingly is stocking less variety of product....I did read somewhere that since the Chase tires came out, he said he didn't need to carry many other tires!!! Haha! Pat watches this forum and has not responded so I am taking that to mean FF is doing just fine. Hi Pat!
-
Chase tyres are bloody good, I personally like the ares tyre a Little better. But difficult to get.
-
yeah i think my questions have been answered, i guess what im seeing is the that ff is lacking the variety that it used to have due to the companys dropping flatland specific parts and others not distributing to ff anymore. I will still continue to buy from pat as much as i can.
-
I was just browsing flatland fuel. I think there is plenty of product to choose from. There resoning for clearancing goods is most likely to stock new 2013 parts. Another note its winter My opinion is we are all idiots for even hearing this. Sheesh.
-
One of the things that has to be hurting flatland companies is that so many people are wanting to follow the trend of running street frames and parts instead of flatland specific parts. If you want to ride some street too, I say go for it! Nothing wrong with it. What bothers me though, is that there are guys out there who are running street parts on their flatland bikes just to try to fit in and look cool. They don't ride street, nor will they ever, but still run a full street setup.....for flatland. That is kind of.... rediculous... and it ends up hurting flatland companies in the process. Personally, I am a flatland purist. I live in the U.S. and every purchase I make I do through flatlandfuel to help keep it alive! Even if I could get it cheaper at Dan's or somewhere else, I will still buy through flatlandfuel.
Again, there is nothing wrong with running a street setup for flatland if you ride a little street here and there too, but don't do it just because you think people will take you more serious in the larger bmx community, because they won't.. ever. Flatland has always been looked down upon and always will be. That is why I will continue to run my four piece bars and bendy tube frame. I don't care what the guys at the skatepark think of me. I am not seeking their approval.
-
Flatlands looked down at? Lmao.
So is anyone riding a bike and not driving a car or playing footy.
Jealousy can be funny at times.
-
Flatlands looked down at? Lmao.
So is anyone riding a bike and not driving a car or playing footy.
Jealousy can be funny at times.
No one is jealous. Quite the opposite. I like flatland being underground like it is right now. My point is that flatlanders should be themselves. If you want to run a 21 inch street frame for flatland only... go ahead. It will only make your tricks harder. But hey, maybe you will fit in with the riders at the skatepark...
And yes, flatland (out of all of the bicycle disciplines) is looked down upon.
-
Riding a street set up doesnt make tricks harder, because you will adjust naturally, if you have your tricks dailed it wont take much to to adjust.
-
I prefer to ride a "street frame" only 2 days ago I went on a 18.5 tt and it was to snappy for me. I rode a 20 and it was so much more smoother feeling. I guess it all depends on height, style of riding, tricks...
-
Riding a street set up doesnt make tricks harder, because you will adjust naturally, if you have your tricks dailed it wont take much to to adjust.
right...
if that's the case, why don't you set up a bmx racer as a flatland rig?
did like to see you try flatlanding on a 73 deg headtube, 21" t.t. with 14.5+ chainstay length frame with knobby 2" tires.
pretty sure you would "adjust" too, riding without pegs, front brakes, pott's mod, gyro and rear brakes.
i mean, riders bitd did that too, why don't you?
because there's something called progression.
all this 80's trend-whoring got to stop; functionality should always come first before fashion.
-
The only ppl hating on flatland riders usually are non flatland trendies and noobs. Flatland specific bikes are good for flat specific riding. ever since mathias started integrating street into his riding there has been a massive move towards this. A few influential riders went straight tubes for various reasons then lots of ppl followed. Now saying this I do like and follow some trends myself because I can see it progressing my riding and positive change is always a good thing.
As much as I like my ride I wish it wasn't black(to lazy to re colour it).
-
Now that street kids want to do nose wheelies and hang5's and easier whips and flat riders want stronger simpler constructin.. the designs in both factions and have been coming closer together. I mean theres TONS of 25-27mm forks and frames with 13.25-13.5 CS's out there by street companies the list goes on...but these adjustments in trends and geo can be costly for a flatland company where a street company can take the risk.
-
Riding a street set up doesnt make tricks harder, because you will adjust naturally, if you have your tricks dailed it wont take much to to adjust.
all this 80's trend-whoring got to stop; functionality should always come first before fashion.
What does this even mean?^^^ Are you saying that the "street style" or straight tube frames of today are "80's trend whoring"?
-
I would probably guess FF is doing okay, or at least as good as they always have. Flatland's not ever been that popular, but it is good that Pat has kind of cornered the market here in the US.
There's less stock because there is less flatland stuff being made really.
And let's squash the myth that more people are using "street" parts and frames. Most people are just using flatland parts and frames that just LOOK LIKE street/ramp/park bikes. You'd be hard pressed to find a pro out there running actual street parts other than Matthias.
-
i like to think of this whole originality of set ups like this.
originality comes from brake set up/peg set up/tricks if you think originality comes from the bike/the proposed function of your original design then i don't care you are changing what a bike is to fit your riding instead of trying to ride a bike.
the comment about the race bike is obsurd because if you tried to ride anything with carbon forks or a 14.5 inch back end you would hate your life. that said i know trails riders who love 14.5 inch back ends 73 degree head tubes and 21-22 inch top tube. this makes sense for their riding but they aren't really making a whole new bike with stupid tubes that cost more to produce.
whether it is a trend or not, straight tubes are more logical cost effective and stronger dollar for value. this makes me think that straight tubed street/shortstreet frames are going to be the best bet for flatland for me. i see no need in bends because if tubes are getting in the way improve your technique.
i would really love flatland to take off AGAIN in north America, in order for this to happen trends need to blow up!
it would really help too if flatland internet coverage wasn't so web.0 i would really like to see top notch flatland coverage in canada and the states just like the flatweb tv guys are doing.
-
Guys, this thread is really silly.
Just think about how much new trendy stuff Pat has sold: all the 2 pc bars, straight frames people bought who didn't necessarily need them.
To each his own. If you want to run certain parts then sweet. You might ride worse at the next comp or gain that extra edge to kick everyone's ass!
-
I think the topic has changed direction from pats product movement to what is perceived in the availability of parts and the direction parts are heading. Flatland is doable in a regular style frame but aesthetics is also very important. I'm currently riding a g9 which as you should know has straight tubes. It's still a clearance style bike that is still reasonably short and light. Some ppl want a light bike and are willing to accept that it probably will break quicker. If you can't afford this then there are alternatives to this. Frames needing warranties can also be a burden to companies wanting to push limits if design vs weight vs strength all need to be accommodated.
I still want a tiny front sprocket and long seat post as it makes things more comfortable. I drive to my spot as many older riders probably do so I can get away with this.
-
yeah, i got what i wanted from this thread a while back. My question should have been "what happened to all the flatland companys that Pat used to sell" rather than "Is Flatland Fuel hurting".
-
I just saw this thread so I am sorry I did not reply earlier. To answer the questions of some, our selection is a little less than it was a couple of years ago and even less so than it was 4-5 years ago. There are a few reasons for this. First of all the economy just isnt what it was prior to the fall of 2008. Before that everyone spent a lot more money. Even those people that are doing as well now as they did before the recession just dont spend money like they used to. So fewer customers means fewer manufacturers. Secondly, manufacturers kind of flooded the flatland market in years past with too much product. We are seeing a shake out from that now. Some good closeouts are out there and we have passed that savings on to our customers. Lastly, a few big manufacturers are either gone from the flatland market or have shrunk their offerings. Colony ended their flatland program. Fly sold Suelo to their Japanese distro and they have not really got it going again 100% yet. KHE has TERRIBLE distribution problems in the USA so we are missing a lot of their product.
There is an upside to all of this though. The product that is on the market now is just about the best stuff we have ever saw. The "shake out" I mentioned above has left the best companies standing strong. We will soon have Ares products back in the USA. New product from Autum this summer. Both Martti and Viki are working on some great new parts and frames. Profile just released a new flatland specific crank. Freecoasters are improving. The future for flatland products looks good and Flatlandfuel is doing just fine thanks to all of you. I can not express how much I appreciate the support of all of you.
-
Pat always pops up speaking the truth! In prepping for a big contest I am putting on this summer, I have been in touch with nearly every bike company remotely associated with flatland. There are tons of people in all positions within the BMX industry that are psyched on flatland and envision a bright future for it! There are also a few companies that have no clue what they are doing... This whole thread got a little off track but all is well from here dudes! Pat is a class act!!
-
Flatland has always been looked down upon and always will be.
This just simply isn't true. While many may look down on it (either out of ignorance or jealousy), most others I have known greatly respect it. This is especially true more recently with the street/park riders trying to learn flat tricks and after several years they still can't do them. Also, there are several flat riders than can ride street better than the street riders -- and they know it.
Anyway, does anyone know when the Ares tires will be in stock at Flatland Fuel?
-
I am so excited about the Ares stuff Pat...wanna try out those tires!!!!!
-
Flatland has always been looked down upon and always will be.
This just simply isn't true. While many may look down on it (either out of ignorance or jealousy), most others I have known greatly respect it. This is especially true more recently with the street/park riders trying to learn flat tricks and after several years they still can't do them. Also, there are several flat riders than can ride street better than the street riders -- and they know it.
Anyway, does anyone know when the Ares tires will be in stock at Flatland Fuel?
100% agree!
-
Why not do a "Coming soon" on here and your Website? it might ramp up the Jawn!
-
We don't really need 200 manufacturers anyway. Odyssey, Profile, Primo, HB, S&M, Quamen, and Tree seem to have it covered as far as I can tell. There stuff does what it's supposed to.
When will Nankai, or whatever Nankai turned into, get going again?
-
D, NYB is the new Nankai. They are really slow to get going and have not even yet come close to filling the backorders from their Japanese shops. I will have 20 of their hubs in a few weeks but it will probably take until next year before supply catches up with demand.
-
Is Nankai hub still made in Japan?
-
Nankai was made in Japan until they closed. NYB is the new Nankai and they are still made in Japan.
-
Nankai was made in Japan until they closed. NYB is the new Nankai and they are still made in Japan.
So the new Nankai will be rebadged as NYB I supposed? Interesting.
-
Tooling takes forever to get up and running in manufacturing. I'm interested to see what NYB will produce.
I forgot to add Deco to my list, I like them too.
-
State of flatland is very stale every frame looks alike , which makes flat parts a hard sell thank Christ standard and mtf can make whatever you want even if it costs more . Most parts on the market I would never spend any money on
-
Nankai was made in Japan until they closed. NYB is the new Nankai and they are still made in Japan.
Not so much a "re-badge" as it is the son of the original Nankai proprietor choosing to continue his father's business. All things considered, that situation could easily have gone either way and we could have been looking at the Nankai system becoming nothing more than a fond memory, whilst bitching about 69,420 re-badged YuHub (http://www.yuhub.com.tw/en/products/?method=detail&aid=117) clones! Stoked to see what NYB will bring to the table, although it looks like we might be in for a bit of a wait...
-
SHAZAM! (http://flatlandfuel.com/nyb-japankfreecoasterhub.aspx)
-
http://flatlandfuel.com/nyb-japankfreecoasterhub.aspx (http://flatlandfuel.com/nyb-japankfreecoasterhub.aspx)