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English => Marketplace => Companies => Topic started by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 01:49:22 PM

Title: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 01:49:22 PM
Hi guys,


Zion has been kinda quiet this year , sorry about that. Reason is simple, its really hard to finance a small bike company , specially in times like this , so I had to play it smart and get rid of the current stock before starting new productions.

I'm really glad to announce that after long and hard testing phase Sam Foakes signature frame Focus is finally in production. I know that many of you have been waiting for this.

From the first day I started Focus project with Sam he knew exactly what he wanted. A frame that is strong and that can last a pro level riding for ages. A frame that you put on your bike and just ride, without having to check it for cracks after every session and without a fear that it will snap on a practice run just before a contest starts. We've seen to many of cases like this.

Second thing that Sam is really picky about is frame geometry. We spent a lot of time discussing frame geometry, making sure we take care of every single detail. This included making special frame drawings that weren't just normal CAD drawings but we also drew frame in different trick positions to calculate tire clearance from ground and effects of different angles.

If you remember, Sam started testing his first Focus prototype in March 2009 and he is still riding that same frame. It went through a lot of testing , got A LOT of beating but still there are no cracks. So after a year and 8 months of testing we decided to make final drawing and start production.


What most of you are probably most interested in are frame specs, so here they are, explained.


Toptube length  -  19.0"
Headtube angle - 74 deg
Seattube angle - 71 deg
Chainstay length - 13.25" (13.0 - 13.5" )



Let me explain it shortly


First thing most riders take in consideration when buying a frame is Toptube lenght. But that measurement alone is worthless if you don't consider it together with other specs.

19.0 TT length maybe sounds shorter then most of you expected from Focus but it is because of this HT and ST angle combination.
Sam changed ST angle to 71 degrees because it gives a little more more space for cliffhanger tricks, moving your seatpost a bit towards the handlebar.
So keeping the same wheelbase of the bike if we changed HT angle to "modern flatland standard"  75 degrees , toptube length would be 19.4" . If we changed it to 74.5 , toptube length would be 19.2  (same as first Focus prototype) .

Chainstay length on frames is usually described with only one length, but that doesn't really explain it well since you can move the wheel inside the dropout.
Focus frame has these 3 chainstay lengths :

13.0" - wheel slammed in dropout
13.25" - wheel centered in dropout
13.5" - wheel extended in dropout


Hope this explains the geometry well.

There is also one great innovation that on Focus frame that you haven't seen on any other flatland frame before : Taper Lock patent dropouts.

Taper Lock is a patented design of dropouts made by a Taiwanese rider that completely solves the problem of chain tension in a most simple way, with out the use of chaintensioners. It is a brilliant idea that I've tested on street frames and it will come on all Zion frames in the future.

Focus frames comes with 14mm dropouts , but with the frame you will get both 14mm and 10mm taper lock washers , so it works both with 3/8 and 14mm hubs.

Here are 2 photos that show you the simplicity of Taper Lock. No explanation needed.
And believe me , once you tighten your wheel it doesn't move ever again. EVER !!

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/taper2.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/taper1.jpg)


And last thing I didn't mention is that for this first batch of Focus frames Sam chose a Sparkling Black color.


Frame production should be finished by the end of this year and it will be available in shops beginning of 2011.  
For the retail price you will have to wait till it hits the shops.


Hope you like it


Mislav Streicher
Zion Bike Co.


Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on November 24, 2010, 02:35:35 PM
I am 100% down to purchase this frame,I love everything about it.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: bhuffman on November 24, 2010, 02:41:22 PM
I really like the fact that the CS is over 13
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Jan@Weiden on November 24, 2010, 02:49:48 PM
i would like to see a picture of that frame
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on November 24, 2010, 02:53:28 PM
I really like the fact that the CS is over 13
that is exactly what I'm talking about Bryan
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: robpossible on November 24, 2010, 03:19:01 PM
That Taper Lock looks brilliant! Can't wait to see it in action. Nice explaination of the Focus frame too. Love the details.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Furball on November 24, 2010, 04:12:46 PM
Hi guys,

Zion has been kinda quiet this year , sorry about that. Reason is simple, its really hard to finance a small bike company , specially in times like this , so I had to play it smart and get rid of the current stock before starting new productions.

I'm really glad to announce that after long and hard testing phase Sam Foakes signature frame Focus is finally in production. I know that many of you have been waiting for this.

From the first day I started Focus project with Sam he knew exactly what he wanted. A frame that is strong and that can last a pro level riding for ages. A frame that you put on your bike and just ride, without having to check it for cracks after every session and without a fear that it will snap on a practice run just before a contest starts. We've seen to many of cases like this.

Second thing that Sam is really picky about is frame geometry. We spent a lot of time discussing frame geometry, making sure we take care of every single detail. This included making special frame drawings that weren't just normal CAD drawings but we also drew frame in different trick positions to calculate tire clearance from ground and effects of different angles.

If you remember, Sam started testing his first Focus prototype in March 2009 and he is still riding that same frame. It went through a lot of testing , got A LOT of beating but still there are no cracks. So after a year and 8 months of testing we decided to make final drawing and start production.

What most of you are probably most interested in are frame specs, so here they are, explained.

Toptube length  -  19.0"
Headtube angle - 74 deg
Seattube angle - 71 deg
Chainstay length - 13.25" (13.0 - 13.5" )

Let me explain it shortly

First thing most riders take in consideration when buying a frame is Toptube lenght. But that measurement alone is worthless if you don't consider it together with other specs.

19.0 TT length maybe sounds shorter then most of you expected from Focus but it is because of this HT and ST angle combination.
Sam changed ST angle to 71 degrees because it gives a little more more space for cliffhanger tricks, moving your seatpost a bit towards the handlebar.
So keeping the same wheelbase of the bike if we changed HT angle to "modern flatland standard"  75 degrees , toptube length would be 19.4" . If we changed it to 74.5 , toptube length would be 19.2  (same as first Focus prototype) .

Chainstay length on frames is usually described with only one length, but that doesn't really explain it well since you can move the wheel inside the dropout.
Focus frame has these 3 chainstay lengths :

13.0" - wheel slammed in dropout
13.25" - wheel centered in dropout
13.5" - wheel extended in dropout

Hope this explains the geometry well.

There is also one great innovation that on Focus frame that you haven't seen on any other flatland frame before : Taper Lock patent dropouts.

Taper Lock is a patented design of dropouts made by a Taiwanese rider that completely solves the problem of chain tension in a most simple way, with out the use of chaintensioners. It is a brilliant idea that I've tested on street frames and it will come on all Zion frames in the future.

Focus frames comes with 14mm dropouts , but with the frame you will get both 14mm and 10mm taper lock washers , so it works both with 3/8 and 14mm hubs.

Here are 2 photos that show you the simplicity of Taper Lock. No explanation needed.
And believe me , once you tighten your wheel it doesn't move ever again. EVER !!

And last thing I didn't mention is that for this first batch of Focus frames Sam chose a Sparkling Black color.

Frame production should be finished by the end of this year and it will be available in shops beginning of 2011.  
For the retail price you will have to wait till it hits the shops.

Hope you like it

Mislav Streicher
Zion Bike Co.

I give you massive props for giving the other companies the finger! :beer: :beer: :beer:

Simple Wheel Slammers, huh? Nice idea, but those things don't really solve the chain tension issue. It all depends upon what size sprocket and what size cog/driver you have! ;)

i would like to see a picture of that frame

The search button is your friend. -_-

http://www.global-flat.com/parts/part/840 (http://www.global-flat.com/parts/part/840)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 04:19:32 PM
nope, you're wrong . These are nothing like wheel slammers.

Taper Lock system has a dropout with that is slanted on a certain degree and so is the Taper Lock Washer. When assembled together they slide back and forth together with the wheel. But once you tighten the wheel it locks and can't be moved anymore.
Can't go forward because those slants don't allow it. Can't go backwards because chain doesn't allow it.

Classic wheel slammers only work for a certain chain length, but this system is completely adjustable so it works on any chain length.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Furball on November 24, 2010, 04:29:12 PM
nope, you're wrong . These are nothing like wheel slammers.

Taper Lock system has a dropout with that is slanted on a certain degree and so is the Taper Lock Washer. When assembled together they slide back and forth together with the wheel. But once you tighten the wheel it locks and can't be moved anymore.
Can't go forward because those slants don't allow it. Can't go backwards because chain doesn't allow it.

Classic wheel slammers only work for a certain chain length, but this system is completely adjustable so it works on any chain length.

Just like Simple Wheel Slammers. It can move backwards no problem! Ever heard of chain stretch? Even those "stretch-proof" chains do stretch!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Rad255 on November 24, 2010, 04:33:18 PM
Holy f*ck. Its perfect.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 04:37:35 PM
@Furball 

Again, you don't seem to get how this works. Believe me its more simple then you can imagine,  hehe. I'll probably have to make a short video so everyone would understand it.

But believe me : IT WORKS !

Every chain stretches, but that only means that after some time of riding you will have to loosen your wheel and tighten it again. That's all.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: blackwheel on November 24, 2010, 04:44:52 PM
that's clever. nice idea.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: smiley (Roy) on November 24, 2010, 04:47:58 PM
Digging the Taper Lock concept !!!

 :beer: :beer: :beer:

-Roy
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Furball on November 24, 2010, 04:49:46 PM
@Furball  

Again, you don't seem to get how this works. Believe me its more simple then you can imagine,  hehe. I'll probably have to make a short video so everyone would understand it.

But believe me : IT WORKS !

Every chain stretches, but that only means that after some time of riding you will have to loosen your wheel and tighten it again. That's all.

Time to quote myself:

nope, you're wrong . These are nothing like wheel slammers.

Taper Lock system has a dropout with that is slanted on a certain degree and so is the Taper Lock Washer. When assembled together they slide back and forth together with the wheel. But once you tighten the wheel it locks and can't be moved anymore.
Can't go forward because those slants don't allow it. Can't go backwards because chain doesn't allow it.

Classic wheel slammers only work for a certain chain length, but this system is completely adjustable so it works on any chain length.

Just like Simple Wheel Slammers. It can move backwards no problem! Ever heard of chain stretch? Even those "stretch-proof" chains do stretch!


Quote
Classic wheel slammers only work for a certain chain length

True. But you will need a certain size Wheel Slammer for your sprocket/driver setup, or you will have a chain that is either too tight or loose again. The use of Wheel Slammers is an unnecessary trial-and-error battle that can be avoided by using chain tensioners.

Quote
Can't go forward because those slants don't allow it. Can't go backwards because chain doesn't allow it.

Can't you see that you contradict yourself?

In plain words, you will need a certain chain length in order to prevent the wheel from moving backwards!

Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 04:52:24 PM
here is just a short sketch that could explain it :

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/explanation.jpg)

as you can see there is a CNC'd slant between dropout and taper lock washer.

When your axle nut is loose it can move freely up and down.
But when you tighten your axle nut (even only with your hands) the wheel can't move any more.

It can't go towards BB because of that slant and it can't go away from BB because chain doesn't allow it.


Does this explain it ?


Maybe I didn't say one thing, that you have to hold the wheel back and tighten the chain with your hand before you tighten the axle nuts. As you normally do anyway.

Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: stuntnuts on November 24, 2010, 05:03:27 PM
http://bmx.transworld.net/1000082921/features/stolen-introduces-new-taper-lock-dropout/ (http://bmx.transworld.net/1000082921/features/stolen-introduces-new-taper-lock-dropout/)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on November 24, 2010, 05:10:23 PM
furball doesnt get this concept. its really is *that simple* lmao. I love the idea of those chain tensioner things. get on patenting this and sell it to everyone else in bmx!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 05:11:09 PM
yep , that's it .

Ecxept Stolen didn't mention it is not their idea, hehe.
It has been designed by a bmx/mtb rider from Taiwan. He was smart enough to apply for patent so now he gets royalties for all frames that use it.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on November 24, 2010, 05:14:09 PM
seat tube is 25.4mm i suppose?

my inertia came with a 27.2mm surprise, which is nice tho cause I run a nice light alloy mtb post
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 05:41:39 PM
yep, seattube is 25.4mm

Also Spanish BB and Integrated Headset
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: ?uest on November 24, 2010, 06:06:41 PM
yep , that's it .

Except Stolen didn't mention it is not their idea, hehe.




lol
what do you expect from a company named "Stolen"
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Pralex on November 24, 2010, 06:09:51 PM
Interesting system.  Jugs seems totally lost haha.

One thing though, which I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet.

If the thickness of the channel is 2.5mm on one end, and 4.5mm one the other, that's a 1.5mm difference, and with both drop outs, that makes a difference of 3mm combined.

A lot of riders avoid having to squeeze the back end/forks, by ensuring that they use the correct amount of washers/spacers.

With this system, there's no real way to accommodate for the correct amount of spacing, as it will never be consistent.

I know 3mm isn't much, and that's the worst case scenario, but just something that jumped out at me upon first impression.

Not attacking the idea, as I think its very interesting, and a simple solution to chain tensioning.  Mislav, have you guys had any trouble with this?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 07:02:57 PM
I understand what you say.  But it is actually half of what you calculated. Difference is only 1.5mm

It is because wheel can only go back and forth cca half an inch which is approx half of the washer diameter.

And honestly every frame can stand that much flex.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Revig on November 24, 2010, 07:53:36 PM

WOow, everything there can make think that it will be a great product but
Sam Foakes is missing something with choosing that color,
nowadays, the  fashionable black is not the sparkling black but the matt black !
 :P :)

(Yeah I know Sam Foakes is known to not follow the trend - and that's a good thing ! :beer: - )


Something else :
after reading that Ridebmx article Stuntnuts posted, I wonder why since 2009 a lot of others frame makers didn't use that dropout concept that seems very smart. How long did you test it on street frames ? Any problem at all ? (maybe it's expensive ? but that's really not my business). I am just curious and not attacking the idea as well.


Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 24, 2010, 07:55:44 PM
Not very stoked on the shorter top tube. I understand your reasoning, but the room will still be lost regardless of how the HT/ST angles apply. I'm on 74 right now with 19.2 and I like it, and I couldn't see going shorter.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Hatebreeder on November 24, 2010, 08:12:55 PM
No option for mounts huh?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 24, 2010, 08:15:27 PM

WOow, everything there can make think that it will be a great product but
Sam Foakes is missing something with choosing that color,
nowadays, the  fashionable black is not the sparkling black but the matt black !
 :P :)

(Yeah I know Sam Foakes is known to not follow the trend - and that's a good thing ! :beer: - )


Something else :
after reading that Ridebmx article Stuntnuts posted, I wonder why since 2009 a lot of others frame makers didn't use that dropout concept that seems very smart. How long did you test it on street frames ? Any problem at all ? (maybe it's expensive ? but that's really not my business). I am just curious and not attacking the idea as well.


It's a signature frame and that is the color that Sam wants.  Its a beautiful color and it sure wont be a reason for someone not to buy this frame, hehe.

I've been testing Taper Lock for a year and it is really amazing.
The reason why not many bmx companies didn't pick up this idea is simple. Originally the inventor designed it with this tapered area on the outer side of dropout. But that way it only works good if you don't have pegs. If you run pegs your axle will bend easily.
You can also see this on those Stolen frames. Taper Lock is on outer side of dropout. This sucks.

Zion was the first company that changed it and put the whole taper lock system on the inner side of the dropout so you can run pegs as on any other frame. I also had to make the distance between dropouts a bit bigger so you can fit those taper lock washers.

Street riders on my team have been riding it this whole year and they didn't have a single problem with it. System is amazing.

And its not expensive at all. I could even say its fairly cheap.



Not very stoked on the shorter top tube. I understand your reasoning, but the room will still be lost regardless of how the HT/ST angles apply. I'm on 74 right now with 19.2 and I like it, and I couldn't see going shorter.



I understand you , but there is absolutely no way that one frame can suit every rider out there. You say its too short for you and most of riders in Japan will say its too long for them. But this is a signature frame and it is produced in the size that best fits Sam Foakes.

For this first production we only produced one size. And after we see how riders react to it we may introduce more sizes in the future.


No option for mounts huh?

Sorry, but no option for brake mounts on this first batch.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Malo on November 24, 2010, 08:21:14 PM
Quote
With this system, there's no real way to accommodate for the correct amount of spacing, as it will never be consistent.

There' no problem if the washer is oriented outside and I think these dropouts have been designed that way. The distance between the dropouts will stay the same. It's a really good and simple idea.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Phatman on November 24, 2010, 11:42:34 PM
Will there be a CS dimple like your older frames? Please say no!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on November 25, 2010, 01:26:35 AM
No , hehe

But I don't know why this dent ever bothered you. Have you ever heard about frame cracking in that area ? It just gives you an option to run bigger sprockets.

Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: blackwheel on November 25, 2010, 01:37:53 AM
No , hehe

But I don't know why this dent ever bothered you. Have you ever heard about frame cracking in that area ? It just gives you an option to run bigger sprockets.



I think the dimples just look terrible. It's like a pretty woman with a large hairy mole on her face. You just can't not notice it.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Phatman on November 25, 2010, 01:48:41 AM
Back in the day when i was younger i bent cs with a dimple, been dead against them ever since!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: katobmx on November 25, 2010, 04:46:51 AM
whats the weight? I hope its in the 4lb range
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: carld on November 25, 2010, 01:11:22 PM
hmm if its like the avatar image, it should look nice

i like that taper-lock design.  now if it works on the outside, then there should be peg size washers?  those ones look too small for pegs to rest against...

all you guys and the new frames, i'm never going to have money
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Pralex on November 25, 2010, 01:57:09 PM
Quote
With this system, there's no real way to accommodate for the correct amount of spacing, as it will never be consistent.

There' no problem if the washer is oriented outside and I think these dropouts have been designed that way. The distance between the dropouts will stay the same. It's a really good and simple idea.

The dropouts were originally designed this way, but Zion, from what it seems, will be the first to use the taper lock washer on the inside of the dropout.

Someone else mentioned it, but these could be used with the washer on the outside, as long as the washer was larger (1.5" diameter), to allow a full, flush surface for the peg to rest against.

Is Juggs still confused?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 25, 2010, 05:23:53 PM
The dropouts seem like a really sick idea btw. I'm really curious to see what kind of strength this gives the rear end.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: paulbrown692000 on November 25, 2010, 07:20:30 PM
I love when someone makes something work even better.  Seems like a great Idea.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Wouter van der Linde on November 25, 2010, 08:35:25 PM
Where is that picture of Aki's Focus build up?
I can't find it..

Edit:

Found!

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/1-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: darren on November 25, 2010, 09:34:53 PM
I love this frame so much but it sucks I'm a borderline midget...  Anything in the works for maybe a 18.2" tt?!?!  Haha
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Rad255 on November 26, 2010, 05:22:25 PM
I love this frame so much but it sucks I'm a borderline midget...  Anything in the works for maybe a 18.2" tt?!?!  Haha

Yea it's called a St. Martin Eiffel heh.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on November 26, 2010, 06:13:39 PM
I love this frame so much but it sucks I'm a borderline midget...  Anything in the works for maybe a 18.2" tt?!?!  Haha

Yea it's called a St. Martin Eiffel heh.
^_^   no sh*t
if you want 18.2 tt you should already have plenty of choices
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on November 26, 2010, 06:44:07 PM
i think there a chance he meant if this frame specifically might come out 18.2?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: katobmx on November 26, 2010, 07:04:12 PM
Focus in action!  -_-

I'm Sam Foakes get me out of here! (http://vimeo.com/7685404)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on November 28, 2010, 04:49:49 PM

I think the dimples just look terrible. It's like a pretty woman with a large hairy mole on her face. You just can't not notice it.
you liken a dimple hid, at least on my frame, by the sprocket/crank arm to a hairy mole
on a face?  it would be more like a hairy mole on the back of the neck, above the hair line a
little.
 :P
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: paulbrown692000 on December 05, 2010, 01:16:09 AM
Focus in action!  -_-

I'm Sam Foakes get me out of here! ([url]http://vimeo.com/7685404[/url])

That video was SICK
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on January 20, 2011, 11:21:46 AM
Hey guys ,


well waiting is finally over ... welding of Focus frames has just been finished in Taiwan and they are on their way to painting factory to get that final "bling" . Next week they will ship out to our distributors so be sure to contact them if you want one.
Flatland Fuel and Newcircle already pre-ordered their batches so get in touch with them :

www.flatlandfuel.com (http://www.flatlandfuel.com)
www.newcircle.com.au (http://www.newcircle.com.au)

I will post photos of the final frame looks next week as soon as they arrive from painting.
But here is a little teaser photo from frame factory

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/IMGP2851-1024.jpg)



Another new Zion product that is being produced as we speak is new Zion brakeless rim .
This is a first rim that we designed and we're really proud of it.

It is a strong doublewall rim with reinforced sidewalls to for additional strength, shaped for brakeless riding only.

As with Focus frame, the first thing we had in mind designing this was STREGTH , not weight.
Whoppers and other jumping tricks are becoming a "must try" tricks these days and you need a proper rim to stand that abuse. This Zion rim was designed for both street and flatland riding, so be sure it will last.

It will be available in 36H only in 2 colors : Smokey Black and Shinny Silver
Final weight will be a bit over 400g (production still few days from being finished)

Here is a first spy photo from the factory. No , you're not insane, holes are still not drilled out on this photo, hehe

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/IMGP2806-1024.jpg)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on January 20, 2011, 03:11:41 PM
FINALLY the wait is over,been about as patient as you can be,my flat OCD has been killin me yo,How soon next week?What flavors?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Mr. Acid Green on January 20, 2011, 04:23:55 PM
nice! rims looks very good too!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on January 20, 2011, 04:58:59 PM
what were the final measurements?
there was diff. lengths he was trying, to find the perfect fit.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 20, 2011, 05:18:12 PM
Is flatlandfuel your only outlet for distribution in the US?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on January 20, 2011, 05:25:21 PM
FINALLY the wait is over,been about as patient as you can be,my flat OCD has been killin me yo,How soon next week?What flavors?

They should be ready for shipping by Tuesday or Wednesday.
This first batch is only available in Sparkling Black color



what were the final measurements?
there was diff. lengths he was trying, to find the perfect fit.

You can find the final measurements on the first page of this topic.



Is flatlandfuel your only outlet for distribution in the US?

Yes, FlatlandFuel is the only distributor we use in USA.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on January 20, 2011, 06:28:54 PM
Thank you very much,can't wait.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 20, 2011, 09:44:00 PM


Yes, FlatlandFuel is the only distributor we use in USA.

whaaaaaaaaaat??

Really? Why?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: flat1ander on January 20, 2011, 09:48:54 PM


Yes, FlatlandFuel is the only distributor we use in USA.

whaaaaaaaaaat??

Really? Why?

What are you pulling a tranq or something and boycotting ff?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 20, 2011, 09:59:22 PM


Yes, FlatlandFuel is the only distributor we use in USA.

whaaaaaaaaaat??

Really? Why?

What are you pulling a tranq or something and boycotting ff?

This is the second time someone has called me tranq over where I buy my sh*t. If it's through a distributor I can get it AT COST through bunnyhop bikes because they hook me up. If I buy it from flatlandfuel, I'm paying retail AND shipping.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on January 20, 2011, 10:16:12 PM
If I buy it from flatlandfuel, I'm paying retail AND shipping.


Holy sh*t no way man..... thats just like - what EVERYBODY ELSE has to do. You know, like common folk. We can't be having this, dude.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 20, 2011, 10:24:02 PM
If I buy it from flatlandfuel, I'm paying retail AND shipping.


Holy sh*t no way man..... thats just like - what EVERYBODY ELSE has to do. You know, like common folk. We can't be having this, dude.


kiss the ring
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: joelweevil on January 20, 2011, 10:31:37 PM
kiss the ass.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: PSchoolen on January 21, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
Is flatlandfuel your only outlet for distribution in the US?

Flatlandfuel is not a distributor of Zion. We are a retailer of Zion. Any bike shop can get Zion if they are willing to order it from Zion. Its that easy.

I am sure as Zion grows Mislav will look for a larger wholesale distro in the US to make it easier for shops to buy small qty of his products.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on January 21, 2011, 03:05:53 PM
well said Pat ... nothing to add
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: rick macdonald on January 21, 2011, 05:44:32 PM
well said Pat ... nothing to add


That is usually the case!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 21, 2011, 07:01:54 PM
Is flatlandfuel your only outlet for distribution in the US?

Flatlandfuel is not a distributor of Zion. We are a retailer of Zion. Any bike shop can get Zion if they are willing to order it from Zion. Its that easy.

I am sure as Zion grows Mislav will look for a larger wholesale distro in the US to make it easier for shops to buy small qty of his products.

I'm just really surprised that you're the only guy carrying their products because so far compared to a lot of other things being released, Zions stuff in street AND flatland looks pretty solid.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: rick macdonald on January 21, 2011, 07:25:07 PM
I bet BMX overall is smaller than most of us think!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on January 21, 2011, 07:27:52 PM
that is exactly the case ... not bmx in general but flatland is super small ... street scene is really huge in USA but you have no idea how hard it is get in this market being a small European company.


and there is one big difference between street and flatland market.
In flatland market riders look for design and function of product, in street market its all about the brand. 90% of street frames look exactly the same, only the sticker on it sells it.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: 2flat2furious on January 21, 2011, 07:35:24 PM
that is exactly the case ... not bmx in general but flatland is super small ... street scene is really huge in USA but you have no idea how hard it is get in this market being a small European company.


and there is one big difference between street and flatland market.
In flatland market riders look for design and function of product, in street market its all about the brand. 90% of street frames look exactly the same, only the sticker on it sells it.

you need to rebrand yourself as like ZION BIKES ULTRA METAL HARDCORE BRAND maybe  -_-
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: pulsar on January 21, 2011, 11:16:05 PM
Technically as your chain stretches your wheel can slip back and become loose. I think Furball was trying to explain this but no one caught on.....
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on January 22, 2011, 12:52:54 AM
so you just tight your wheel again. The whole purpose of this Taper Lock system is to prevent the wheel from moving forward. And it really does this job well.
Off course, your chain will stretch after a while, but all you need to do is retighten your wheel and your good to go.
but you can be sure that your wheel will never move forward during your session and loosen your chain this way.

Trust me, once this Focus frame hits the market and riders start using this Taper Lock system all doubts will go away. That is exactly what I'm waiting for. I don't want to convince you that this idea works on paper, I want you to try it and see for yourself.

Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on January 22, 2011, 01:00:28 AM
what are your thoughts on a 2nd batch having mounts?
and is there any time frame on that?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: pulsar on January 22, 2011, 01:17:55 AM
i understand completely how the design works. i don't think chain stretch will be a huge issue but likely be one of those look down one day and notice your wheel has shifted due to chain stretch and the wheel itself loosening. if your chain breaks, you could loose your wheel since the only thing that makes the wedges work is the chain tention. you are correct that it will never go forward though.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on January 22, 2011, 01:25:01 PM
since the only thing that makes the wedges work is the chain tention.




No you've no understood the concept.

You still have axle nuts, you know.....
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: pulsar on January 22, 2011, 10:35:23 PM
I wish I had time to explain this to you but I just don't. Sit down and think about how it works. I can see why Furball just gave up. You'll see it's inherent problems when they are out.

Peace Ez
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on January 23, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
No please explain if you can, i honestly cant think of why you would think it would fail?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: pulsar on January 24, 2011, 05:54:01 AM
All we have here from what I see is two wedges and an axle nut, the wedges are changeing the direction of the force applied when thightening the nut. It's now pulling back, it's not failing to do what they intened, it will indeed keep the chain tight, I just see loose wheels as the chain stretches.

I wonder if you took your chain off, how easily you could pull your wheel off? No doubt the degrees on the wedges are probably very low....
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on January 24, 2011, 02:07:10 PM
There is too much friction between the metal to allow the wheel moving back in the dropouts as you tighten - you still apply the tension yourself. (From what i understand)

The wedges stop the wheel from moving forward, as the nut on the thread prevets the dropouts from widening the fraction of a milimeter that they need to in order to move forward.

The chain stops the wheel from moving back due to its finite length. Of course you'll have to tighten again due to chain stretch, but thats the same with any solution.

This solution basically just stops the wheel from moving forward, thus keeping the distance you set the wheel - eliminating the use of tensioners. You just have to set the tension yourself by pulling back on the wheel as you do it up.


From what I understand, anyway.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: byke on January 24, 2011, 03:21:54 PM
I am slightly skeptical on this design as it relies too heavily on the precision frame making.

Obviously if the dropouts were the "correct" way round, then it has a flat plate dropout for the cone nuts to rest against ... but when inverted, this causes the wedges to sit against the cone nuts before the dropouts ........ but like anything, this is only a speculative pre concern. We will have to wait and see how it works.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: escapefrombmx on January 24, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
how thick are the dropouts on the very end of it?
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: pulsar on January 25, 2011, 03:45:07 AM
There is too much friction between the metal to allow the wheel moving back in the dropouts as you tighten - you still apply the tension yourself. (From what i understand)

The wedges stop the wheel from moving forward, as the nut on the thread prevets the dropouts from widening the fraction of a milimeter that they need to in order to move forward.

The chain stops the wheel from moving back due to its finite length. Of course you'll have to tighten again due to chain stretch, but thats the same with any solution.

This solution basically just stops the wheel from moving forward, thus keeping the distance you set the wheel - eliminating the use of tensioners. You just have to set the tension yourself by pulling back on the wheel as you do it up.


From what I understand, anyway.







possibly so EZ, i to was thinking the degrees on the wedges are so small there may still be too much friction to remove the wheel even without the chain, and yea you'd still have to pull the wheel back yourself to tension the chain. neat idea, i guess we'll see how well they work for people. i would imagine Zion did some RD before they decided to spit frames out.

peace EZ
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on February 01, 2011, 11:19:05 PM
Please tell me you have a pic or two of one all painted black i've seen sam's bike would like to just see frame.I'm really excited about getting this frame I feel like a 5yr old on Christmas Eve!!!!Just playing the waiting game for FF to receive and it's mine all mine. thanks Chris Armstrong
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on February 02, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Well, here it is !!

Final weight of the frame is 2,33 kg (5,15 lbs) . This probably makes it the heaviest modern flatland frame , but this is exactly what Sam Foakes wants from his signature frame and he is super stoked about this final weight.

As for strength, you know that Sam still didn't manage to break his Focus prototype (it will soon be almost 2 years of testing), so with this extra weight we added I can honestly say that it is "bulletproof" , which is exactly what flatland needs these days.

I'm sure that there will be haters that will have a lot to say about this issue, but you and I both know that they only make a small part of flatland scene.

It is really simple, if you're looking for a lightweight , trendy flatland frame that you almost expect to crack in few months,  you have a lot to choose from and this is definitely not a frame for you.

But if you're looking for a heavier and stronger frame, something that will last you no matter how you ride it and abuse it, flatland market doesn't really offer you many choices.
Focus frame is for you guys.

I would really like to hear your comments about this issue,


Specs of the frame are explained on the first page of this topic , so you can read them there.

There are only 2 visual differences between this final look and what prototype looked like. 

1. Both toptube and downtube radius was just slightly increased.
2. CS and SS bridges tubes are bigger diameter.


Here is a first photo, enjoy

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/focusfinal.jpg)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: byke on February 02, 2011, 09:50:06 AM
Quote
Final weight of the frame is 2,33 kg (5,15 lbs) . This probably makes it the heaviest modern flatland frame

I'm sure that there will be haters that will have a lot to say about this issue

I cant see why anyone would be "hatin" (boy i really hate that expression) and while the frame isn't for me, it does offer something different to the market ... and for that I commend you.

The frame I am on right now is 2.1kg (without paint) - so 2.3 doesn't sound too bad at all.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Wouter van der Linde on February 02, 2011, 10:19:35 AM
Its about 600 grams heavier then modern frames...
What is 600 grams? like nothing! So much parts on your bike that you can change to get that 600 grams back! :)

I dig this frame!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: EZChris on February 02, 2011, 11:03:11 AM
5 is not that much when you conisder most are around the 4.5 mark anyway. tho im not sure how it'll effect sales.... people like to get up on numbers.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: metalbmxer on February 02, 2011, 01:31:28 PM
what the fck is wrong with this picture? is the scale even plugged in?

dude youve got to be kidding me, youre advertising your frame on here and you dont have the sense to make it look nice.

seriously 5.15 lbs? you just shot your self in the foot. look im sure its a badass frame and all and really strong but seriously, most street frames weigh less.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on February 02, 2011, 02:15:34 PM
scale has batteries .

this is first photo that I received from Taiwan , just after painting process. Of course you can't expect it to be a beautiful studio white background photo made 5 minutes after frame dried out.
There are many people who were eager to see what it turned out and those guys will not mind that there is tea and lemons in the background, hehe.

As I said , this frame is not for everyone. You have to open your mind a bit and realize that not everyone wants exactly what you want.

Sam Foakes bases his riding on a heavy frame with heavy parts and he wanted his frame to be like this.
You're right about street frames, you have a new Zion Soul frame that is the strongest street frame we ever made and it is 2.25 kg and can stand any kind of street abuse.

You do realize that Focus prototype Sam rode had 2050 grams and Sam never cracked it. But he wanted to make it heavier, specially in the lower part of the frame. And that is what we did for this final version.

If you ever rode a heavier bike for flatland you know that it reacts completely different than a superlightweight bike ( easier to balance, keeps your momentum better ...) and if you know how to use this it is a really strong weapon.  And there are so many riders what miss this on modern bikes.
Don't get me wrong, a light bike offers many other advantages for your riding but it is up to you to choose what you want. I just offered you another choice.

I think Sam's riding talks for itself so if I trust him to the fullest and I'm willing to risk my money and invest in production of a 2.33 kg frame when almost all other frames are at least 0.5 kg lighter , why can't you just open your mind to a fact that this is exactly what some frame buyers are looking for.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on February 02, 2011, 03:04:28 PM
when will they come with mounts?????
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on February 02, 2011, 03:54:28 PM
Thank You,everything about that frame is the sh*t been waiting for 2yrs for this, come on Pat at FF
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Mr. Acid Green on February 02, 2011, 05:29:11 PM
really is not that heavy... ( maybe for those using 1.5kg frames)    i think is a good thing what Zion is doing here giving more lifetime to a frame , and not using bullsh*t statments like  '' oh low tt cant stand the abuse''..

what i find awesome in this frame is that you can have all modern specs , integrated headset , tappered stays , low tt and still have strength to not crack or bend in a few months.


GOOD WORK ZION.

Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: PSchoolen on February 03, 2011, 05:39:19 AM
Thank You,everything about that frame is the sh*t been waiting for 2yrs for this, come on Pat at FF

they are coming. Probably 4-6 weeks.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: jm on February 03, 2011, 05:53:00 AM
right on, Zion. let the gram counters complain. it's good to see a stout frame on the market that can last over a year.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: ross636 on February 03, 2011, 06:53:05 AM
well i like this and it is nice to have options. job well done !! 
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Havokflat on February 03, 2011, 06:08:01 PM
when will they come with mounts?????
i've been speaking with Zion via email.
he said he's trying to get mounts on the next batch.

so for those like me, keep your eyes peeled.
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: indyBarber73 on February 24, 2011, 01:53:32 PM
Straight dying over here heard they were finished and waiting to be shipped,when is the ETA for America?Sooooo ready to get off of my bike and on the Focus,had my eye on it forever,my flatland OCD is kicking my arse!!!!!
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on April 08, 2011, 10:54:39 AM
here is a first customer photo of an assembled Focus bike .... looks amazing...

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/Focus3-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Zion Focus frame - COMING SOON !
Post by: Zion Bike Co. on April 19, 2011, 12:31:46 PM
3 weeks after I received my Focus frame I finally found some spare time to assemble it ... and it was worth waiting ... check it out :

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus01.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus02.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus04.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus05.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus06.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus07.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus08.jpg)

taper lock system :

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus09.jpg)

and check out this nice clean area for your foot :

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o29/luna3k/myfocus10.jpg)