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English => How-To => Topic started by: whitty on January 16, 2010, 06:52:29 AM

Title: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: whitty on January 16, 2010, 06:52:29 AM
I've run a Taska Ufree for a few months now. The thing is kind of a pain, actually: it's really touchy, pretty unreliable, and in general, it's just not worth bothering. Lots of other people seem to have the same problems I do, too.

That said, the obvious remedy is to buy a Nankai. Unsealed, but everyone says it's the best design, hands down (and just looking at pictures, they're right), super reliable, so on. BUT I don't have money to go replacing a hub I just bought, and the ufree is still better than the driver on the Task unseald it's replacing, so here's the next best thing:

HOW TO TUNE YOUR Ufree TO THE MAX (or, more than you ever wanted to know about how this sucker works).

Here's what it looks like all apart:
(http://alexwhittemore.com/taska_freecoaster/ufree/1.jpg)

Basically, there's a driver, a clutch, a clutch bearing, a clutch bearing race, and a shell bearing. The other shell bearing is what the driver fits into, but it's already in the shell (not pictured).

Assembled, it looks like this:
(http://alexwhittemore.com/taska_freecoaster/ufree/3.jpg)
Note that the current clutch position is as if you'd been backpedaling (this is a right hand drive hub). The threads on the driver push the clutch down off the driver. The clutch bearing (black ring with balls in it) sits between the turning clutch and the stationary (both relative to axle) bearing race so that the spinning clutch doesn't grind against the back plate. Similarly, when you turn the driver forward, the threads pull the clutch up onto the driver:

(http://alexwhittemore.com/taska_freecoaster/ufree/4.jpg)
At this point, the threads are biting into the knurling on the inside of the shell and the wheel is turning.

The trick to this hub is two part. First, the clutch needs to have some sort of tension against the fixed axle. Otherwise it'd just turn with the driver and never actually ride up or down the threads. The way to adjust that tension is with the three set screws on the clutch:
(http://alexwhittemore.com/taska_freecoaster/ufree/2.jpg)
If these are too loose, there's no force holding the clutch to the axle and it just spins with the driver, never engaging or disengaging. On the other hand, if they're too tight, the driver grinds against the axle whenever you pedal, which is also bad. You do, however, want enough force that the driver doesn't turn with the shell. That is an easy source of ghost pedaling: If the clutch doesn't provide enough friction with the axle, and the friction between the driver and shell is greater, the driver will just spin with the shell, and therefore ghostpedal.

I've found that the perfect setting for the clutch screws is 7/8 turn each. That is, screw all three down until they're comfortably tight (don't crank it down, but screw until it won't go anymore). Then unscrew each one full turn, then screw each back in exactly 1/8 turn (45 degrees). It's important to make sure all are screwed the same amount so that you maintain the clutch center on the axle.

The second part of adjusting this coaster is a little bit trickier. There's actually no way to adjust the slack on this hub. Most people think the screws do it, but they only serve to create friction on the clutch. They don't do anything for gap.

The bottom line is that to adjust gap, you have to add or remove washers. One method of increasing slack is to remove the bearing race. You get about 1mm more clutch travel, so a good solid 3/8 turn or more on the driver before the clutch engages. The problem is that then the clutch bearings hit just the edge of the axle's back plate. I'm wary of that because it seems to me like that's a recipe for grinding those bearings to chunks. My alternative is to put a washer just to the right of the left hand (non drive side) shell bearing. This fits in the socket on the shell for the shell bearing and essentially pulls the axle away from the drive side, giving the clutch more room to go before it hits the clutch bearing. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this washer.

The most important part of this setup is to now tighten the cone nuts correctly. The axle is no longer sandwiched between the driver and the left shell bearing like it originally was, since the left shell bearing isn't in all the way. As such, we need to tighten the left cone nut down snugly on the shell bearing.

Take the left cone nut and hand-tighten it very snugly onto the shell bearing. Then screw on the lock nut and tighten the lock nut to the cone nut with an adjustable and a cone wrench, being careful not to unscrew the cone nut in the process (hold the cone wrench still relative to the axle while tightening).

Put the assembly so far back in the shell and shove the driver in the other side. Make sure you've pounded the non-drive-side shell bearing in as far as it'll go with (or without, maybe) your optional washer in the shell first (remember this washer has to be the same diameter as the external diameter of the shell bearing, otherwise it'll just tumble around in the shell and do no good).

Hand-tighten the drive side cone nut down onto the driver. Once it's somewhat snug, back off the driver by half a turn. We don't want the driver to slide around much, but we also don't want to crush it in there or the wheel will bind up too much. Again holding your cone wrench stationary relative to the axle, tighten down the lock nug

Throw the wheel back on your bike.



Hopefully this will do a lot to make your Ufree a bit more useable. You'll still have the same problem lots of people complain about where you hear a whirring sound when you stop pedaling. That's because there's no friction between the shell and the clutch, and the wheel rotating doesn't itself do anything to back the clutch off the internal knurling. You'll always have to backpedal, if only a little, to get the clutch off the knurling and stop the whirring. It's a bummer. However, this should take care of most ghost pedaling (with a properly tensioned chain) and it should also give you a bit more slack (I know I like slack, and the Ufree definitely didn't have any to start).
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: manu on January 16, 2010, 12:54:29 PM
Cool!
Overall I tend to like the first Ares Boo more than this one.
Does anyone agree/disagree?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Iriez on March 07, 2010, 05:55:32 AM
So with my RIP getting jacked, and not being able to replace it (god I hate the ninja's that did this...) I decided to get the closest match, which is the equiliberiem. The frame has 10mm dropouts so no go for 14mm axles. I was riding a KHE Reverse ACB on the RIP with the whole 14mm axle and it was holding up *very* good.

I decided at the last moment to try the ufree as a recommendation from FF. I've always had bad experiences with standard axles, hopefully this will break the streak.

Upon recieving the hub, it had a RIDICULOUS amount of slack. I was literally doing 1+ full rotations of the crank arm before it would catch. Do taiwanese riders like hitting their knee's on the bars constantly or something? lol

So I did some research, saw this thread (amongst others) about the slack and ghost pedal issues.


So I got to workin! First thing that made me mad, but fortunately I've had it happen before so I knew what to do was the fact that once you unscrewed the two nuts on the cog side, the damn 9T cog will NOT unscrew/come out when you pull on it. I basically had to rubber mallet the non-driver side axle (unscrew the non-driver side axle/cone a bit otherwise this wont work and you'll just mash your bearing and threads) and there's enough slack between the axle bearing stopper and the bearing that it can pop the driver side cog a 1/8th of a inch or so out. Then I took a flathead and angled it through my spokes so that I could hit 'downwards' on the cog to help pop it out.
Note:
You MUST unscrew the cog a few spins otherwise it will be threaded inside the clutch! Fortunately the teeth are VERY strong and I was able to hit it a few times (be sure to turn wheel 180 degrees and hit on the 'other' side of the cog for even pressure). Basically, factory sealed these things are just plain STUCK and I couldnt logically
conclude any other way to remove that cog other than perhaps putting it in a vice clamp and turning the entire clamp upside down and hitting the wheel downwards.

Slack: Very inefficient hub at dealing with tight no-slack environment. The modifications suggested in this thread are good, but what finally sealed the deal for me was removing the washer that the black bearing piece sits against, and putting my own thicker washer in to eliminate some of the gap thats unaccounted for. I found my sweet spot by turning the 3 nuts in the clutch (with the clutch inserted onto the axle and pressed against the black bearing to the far left) all the way until they were touching the axle and you could not turn anymore. Then, I backed off about a quarter turn.

The best way to optimize this to get a much tighter no slack is to then spin the axle with the clutch on. Can you feel any of those 3 bearing-nuts hitting the axle? Is it scraping the entire rotation? Too tight if so. I felt mine scrape ever so slightly once during the enitre rotation(s). If you tighten those nuts and they are wearing against
the axle you will defintiely grind them down and lose the ability to have a even remotely close to no slack setup. It will also not rotate well and stop after a half a spin :P

The 'spacer' or 'washer' i used in replacement of the stock one (silver) was a axle nut washer from a 14mm axle. The axle gets wider where that spacer hits its stopper, so a standard 3/8th axle washer will not work. Yes, my spacer was a little lose in terms of the width of the hole...but it all works well and I dont see any harm in this. The
axle washer is probably 3x or 4x the width of the standard spacer, giving it a similar gap structure to a KHE hub with its '3 spacer' setup.

Without the extra thicker spacer, I could only get the hub to get about a 1/4th crank turn in terms of the clutch engaging. Thats too loose for me! I need 1/8th or less.

I dearly hope the axle wont be a issue, because if it doesnt, this will definitely be the best hub I've had if brian's experience proves true with mine :) I have had nothing but problems with the Geisha/Lite, both with the single axle and the 3 piece spindle setup. Infact I had MORE issues with the 3 piece spindle and bearings being broken
then I did with the single axle. The 3 piece is supposed to provide better load bearing, but I found it to be the opposite. I switched to the Reverse in hopes that it would handle better, and it definitely did. But the cost is a very heavy hub. This ufree is 2/3rd the weight of the KHE, but for some reason it feels alot lighter than that! :)

Hope this helps anyone who gets this hub and hated it like I did when I first rode it :) And definitely remove that crappy oil like grease they use and put some real grease in there! They use some cheap crap :)

Oh and I fixed the ghost pedal issue by doing the BB spindle rubber-grip end trick posted in that other thread. VERY basic and very brilliant :)
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: canaryrx8 on April 04, 2010, 11:45:37 PM
Thanks for posting this, I've taken apart my Ufree twice now to clean/grease etc. and today I noticed the bearing race washer (which was paper thin) seemed to have disintegrated, I went and got some 1/2" stainless cut washers (home depot) and replaced it with one of those, now I've got it all put back together and it feels great, I don't really like a lot of slack and this thread and my own tinkering has got my freecoaster feeling pretty good, one other thing I did was loc-tite the tiny clutch screws, I'm hoping this will keep them from backing off or anything down the road. I used phil wood grease to redo everything and so far this is the best my back wheel has felt. Thanks again for the pics etc, all of it was really helpful.  :beer:
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: scapegoat on November 04, 2010, 06:32:03 PM
Oh and I fixed the ghost pedal issue by doing the BB spindle rubber-grip end trick posted in that other thread. VERY basic and very brilliant :)

Does anyone know/ remember where this little thread might be? =)
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Furball on November 04, 2010, 07:12:43 PM
Oh and I fixed the ghost pedal issue by doing the BB spindle rubber-grip end trick posted in that other thread. VERY basic and very brilliant :)


Does anyone know/ remember where this little thread might be? =)

Here you go:

http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=31329.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=31329.0)
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: scapegoat on November 04, 2010, 10:03:14 PM
super sweet, man -thanks!
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: bransyeah on November 14, 2010, 09:35:25 PM
Hey guys I just received the ufree on a wheelset on FF and it really sucks!The lack of slack isn't really a problem but it ghost pedals when going forward (as well as backwards when I dont back pedal before).I've already taken it aparts and did the screws thing.Maybe they're too tight?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: MAYTRICKS on November 16, 2010, 08:51:38 AM
It sounds like the screws aren't tight enough so the clutch remains engaged. Or perhaps your chain is too tight or too off-set putting just enough force on the driver and clutch as to keep it from disengaging freely. This may have very well done this but, make sure the driver and clutch are generously greased and don't tighten down the lock-nuts too much
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: bransyeah on November 16, 2010, 09:59:16 AM
Tanks man! I'll losen up a tiny bit the cone nuts and remove a little tension from the chain 'cause it is indeed very tight.I'll have to do it this afternoon 'cause I'm at the uni right now.
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: bransyeah on November 17, 2010, 09:06:12 PM
This is a  private message from BACK4GOOD about how he solved his problems with his Ufree:

Quote
Hey bro. Tried to just quote and answer in the thread but it kept saying "Explorer cant display the web page" Wutevs, I guess.

Anyhow, I had a custom wheelset built up aroung the Ufree and had the same exact problem as you. So I took it apart, made some adjustments, and as of now its the smoothest thing Ive ever run.

1st: Go to the hardware store and buy a washer that is about half the thickness of the original bearing plate thats in the hub. (Internal hole is 12mm) **Make sure its small enough over all diameter to fit in hub also** This will allow just enough slack without being too much. Will also help the ghost pedal problem.

2cd: With the clutch pushed back against the bearing plate and washer and all is back as far as it will go, evenly adjust the set screws so that they are JUST touching the axle. **Too much and it wont back off all the way against the bearing plate. Too little and there is not enough resistance for the driver to draw the clutch up into the hub.**

3rd: I personally found the factory grease overly sticky. Clean hub very well. Regrease generously with a good quality (Phil Wood, maybe) grease. Being certain to grease the axle where the set screws are touching.

4th) Re-assemble with both cones. Tighten against each other so that it spins freely without binding. Then Install the lock nuts and tighten them down.

Once I did all this, all my problems were gone. (Including that whining/rubbing noise that others on here have stated would not go away.) If for some reason, you dont like the amount of slack, go with a tiny bit thicker washer than I stated above. But like I said, for me, it was perfect. The clutch HAS to have room to back off in order to solve the ghost pedaling issues. Plus it doesnt even think about engaging during pedal tricks. When I got mine, it felt like a cassette hub, it caught so immediately. The slightest bobble of my foot in a pedal trick and it engaged. Now its absolutely perfect, lets just hope it stands the test of time. LOL

Hope this helps you as I know I was ready to put my foot through a brand new $400.00 custom wheelset before I fixed that hub.

MIKE

BTW, feel free if you want to post this in the thread for others. I tried, but the page just refused to load for me.

I'm gonna try this right away and today or tomorrow I'll post how it felt
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: MIKE EVANS on November 19, 2010, 09:36:39 AM
Had my first really good, long session since re-building my hub the way stated above and it didnt fail me one bit. It never engaged when it shouldnt have. Never ghost pedaled. Never came loose or got any play in it whatsoever, rolls forever and is nearly silent.

I wont say this is the best hub by any means as Ive heard great things about the Geisha and the Nankai has stood the test of time itself. BUT, after a little work, it is the best thing Ive ridden to date myself.

I just wanted to let those who bought this hub and were initially very frustrated or angry with it know that it can definitely be a hub that they will be as happy with as any other hub and not feel like they settled for a cheap hub just because it was the least expensive.

Good luck,

MIKE
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: streetland on December 28, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
im having a problem also with my scrapbikes freecoaster..they also have the same mechanisms inside with that freecoaster above...

1 thing is:

if i tighten up the pegs, the driver is also tighting up,and i the driver wont spin, and i cant even spin my wheel.... it  just got stucked :(   if i loosen the pegs . thats the time that the wheel will work...  whats the reason of this problem ?? need help  :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: scapegoat on December 28, 2010, 03:18:18 PM
If you get your bearing cones perfectly adjusted before you put the wheel on the frame and then when you tighten up your pegs, I bet it is pushing the bearing cones in just enough to tighten them too far.
It takes a little practice and feeling the right amount -but try leaving a bearing cone on one side a hair loose (about an 8th turn) -then when you tighten your pegs it will bring it all into perfect adjustment.
I tighten a peg up on one side and on the loose cone side I get the peg ready to tighten up -with just a full turn left to go.  I leave a cone wrench on the loose side to play with the feel -and usually when I tighten the peg up the first time I find I have it a little loose still -just loosen the peg a turn and then turn the cone just a 16th or 8th of a turn.  You can feel the play if you grab your tire and try rocking your wheel back and forth perpendicular to the axle.
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: streetland on January 09, 2011, 03:08:20 AM
If you get your bearing cones perfectly adjusted before you put the wheel on the frame and then when you tighten up your pegs, I bet it is pushing the bearing cones in just enough to tighten them too far.
It takes a little practice and feeling the right amount -but try leaving a bearing cone on one side a hair loose (about an 8th turn) -then when you tighten your pegs it will bring it all into perfect adjustment.
I tighten a peg up on one side and on the loose cone side I get the peg ready to tighten up -with just a full turn left to go.  I leave a cone wrench on the loose side to play with the feel -and usually when I tighten the peg up the first time I find I have it a little loose still -just loosen the peg a turn and then turn the cone just a 16th or 8th of a turn.  You can feel the play if you grab your tire and try rocking your wheel back and forth perpendicular to the axle.


thanks for that mate ^^
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on January 24, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
So... right now, if I lift my back wheel off the ground and spin it backwards, my U-Free strangely engages sporadically and direct drives my cranks for short intervals (then disengages, then engages again, repeat). When the wheel is on the ground, it doesn't seem to do it, but it bugs the crap out of me for it to do that at all... tried adjusting the little clutch tension ball things, but it doesn't seem to be remedying it at all. Anyone got any advice on what to adjust in my hub to stop this insanity?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: scapegoat on January 26, 2011, 07:09:41 PM
Do you have a chain tensioner?  There was also a bit on the forum somewhere about jamming a grip donut or two into the bottom bracket to provide extra friction.  Don't know if that stuff would help -does sound like the hub needs some sort of tweak though.  Wish I could help but I've only got minimal experience with my crappy oddball taska on the freak of nature 24tpi axle lol
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Glimmer on February 25, 2011, 09:39:23 PM
Hey thank's big help as i never had any pictures or diagram for the Runkai Freecoaster but i think im going to get a Geisha light or a Nankia as they are the best i did'nt relise that the Runkai is just a copy of the u-free coaster,i feel a bit conned on the price as FlatlandFuel sell the u-free for just over $100 and Kunstform charge me 179euro which is a bit of a difference anyway thank's very much.
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on April 12, 2011, 01:14:06 AM
Argh... okay, hub keeps having issues. My ufree doesn't backpedal when I roll the bike backwards while im not on it... but it almost always engages when im on the backwheel and I have the bike leaned over with force on the wheel (like in a lardyard). Getting real tired of it... anyone have any ideas how to remedy this or what could be the issue?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: scapegoat on April 12, 2011, 04:30:07 PM
Read back through the earlier posts in this thread and you will probably find some tips.  I know from experience that not all those hubs were created equal -mine didn't have the adjustable set screws and looked slightly different from pics of other ppl's same hubs =p There was a tip about cramming a grip donut into your bottom bracket too -I tried that and it helped a little -chain tension was something that was pretty important but still not 100% fix.  I ended up breaking down and getting a Geisha Light in the end though.
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: pine on May 25, 2011, 07:25:30 AM
geisha and nankai for the win lol

g sport needs to release their hub freecoaster http://free-coaster.com/html/g-sport.html (http://free-coaster.com/html/g-sport.html)
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: JonMack on January 09, 2012, 06:22:06 PM
I took mine apart this weekend following the advice in this thread. There are a few things I noticed.

1) Getting the driver off is a sh*t! I ended up doing as someone said previously and smashing it with a hammer/screwdriver which worked eventually.
2) My clutch was snapped
3) I couldn't get the bearing race off.

So after stripping it completely I cleaned all the grease off of everything, epoxied the clutch back together and put it all back together with plenty of grease. I did the 7/8ths on the clutch screws and it's completely eliminated all ghost pedalling, the only thing now is that while before I had maybe 1/8th turn slack, I now get around 3/4 of a turn! First time I jumped on it I nearly went over the bars! So I'm going to have to take it apart again and find some washers that I can put behind the bearing race to push it over a lot, has anyone got any idea how much space needs to be taken up behind the bearing race to get it back down to 1/8th?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Ken NJ on March 25, 2012, 09:55:14 PM
I think my clutch is snapped too.. It's in two pieces and there are three broken welds.. Can this still be used?
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: robpossible on March 25, 2012, 10:13:27 PM
If you re-weld it; othwise no. Brakeless has them: http://blog.brakeless.ch/products/wheels-co (http://blog.brakeless.ch/products/wheels-co)
A little pricey tho, half the cost of the hub at FF.
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Ken NJ on March 26, 2012, 04:20:58 AM
Darnitall!! My back wheel is wasted for a bit then.. Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: MAYTRICKS on March 26, 2012, 04:37:44 AM

Glue it with loctite epoxy weld bonding compound. It may be at the very least a temporary solution until you can replace your hub.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/epoxies.shtml (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/epoxies.shtml)
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: Ken NJ on March 26, 2012, 07:39:39 PM
Word up! Thanks! We will see if it holds...
Title: Re: How to properly tune a Ufree/Boo2/Runkai
Post by: ramon_flat on December 10, 2012, 02:13:08 AM
If you get your bearing cones perfectly adjusted before you put the wheel on the frame and then when you tighten up your pegs, I bet it is pushing the bearing cones in just enough to tighten them too far.
It takes a little practice and feeling the right amount -but try leaving a bearing cone on one side a hair loose (about an 8th turn) -then when you tighten your pegs it will bring it all into perfect adjustment.
I tighten a peg up on one side and on the loose cone side I get the peg ready to tighten up -with just a full turn left to go.  I leave a cone wrench on the loose side to play with the feel -and usually when I tighten the peg up the first time I find I have it a little loose still -just loosen the peg a turn and then turn the cone just a 16th or 8th of a turn.  You can feel the play if you grab your tire and try rocking your wheel back and forth perpendicular to the axle.


That play, does not affect the axle or bearings?