Global-flat.com Board
English => How-To => Topic started by: jwnolte on November 03, 2008, 10:01:13 PM
-
this mod will make your nankai freecoaster smoother and stronger. you will need a nankai wrench, a big adjustable wrench for lock nuts, some thick grease and some extra ball bearings. the bearings inside the driver on my 11t are bigger than the bearings inside the shell, so make sure you get the right sizes.
the bearings that come in a Nankai hub look something like this:
(http://flatlandfuel.com/productimages/main/nankaibearings.jpg)
we are basically going to eliminate those cages to make room for more bearings to make the hub smoother and stronger. push the bearings out of the metal cages inside the hub so you have nothing but loose ball bearings.
actually, you could probably do this to any unsealed part and get better performance with it. those of you who are plagued with an unsealed bottom bracket, take note.
1. take your hub apart. "glue" all the bearings to the cones with grease, not the hub shell. i think you need 17 on each side of the shell and 10 in the driver? do the right side first- push all the balls in close around the inner part of the driver, not out along the sides of the dust cover. the driver will not fit right in the hub shell if the bearings are too far out.
(http://a508.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/11/l_a555189b8aec52240dfe4c182e9106e3.jpg)
2. secure the driver so it doesnt shift, causing all the bearings to fall out. I like to put the drive-side shell bearings in first, then thread the clutch in. i wrap a rubber band around a spoke and wrap that around the driver to keep it from un-threading itself and falling out.
(http://a370.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/13/l_f23767f41a24db886f488a731b19e0f9.jpg)
3. arrange the left-side hub bearings. make sure the cone, lock nut and outter nut are all tight.
(http://a930.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/94/l_cc7c0366ea10f4a8de07387c4683ff89.jpg)
4. carefully slide the axle with the cone assembly in place and set the axle upright on the floor/bench so it doesnt fall back out. if the axle doesnt go in all the way, either you have too many bearings on the cone or the bearings have shifted and are not fitting into the shell correctly.
5. grease up the outer race of the driver. the driver bearings in my 11t driver are slightly larger than the hub body bearings. make sure you are using the correct size bearings! i put a little o-ring under the cone nut to keep some of the dust out. drop the bearings in around the axle with lots of grease and thread the right side cone nut on slowly.
(http://a574.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/36/l_a0c6d8335e118451b2e8270bc24b710d.jpg)
6. now take that rubber band off. tension the cone nut and tighten the lock nut against it. a Nankai wrench is absolutely neccessary for the finishing touches.
(http://a28.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/97/l_9d0aa71df3bf5f4595cd5a9bd7fcad9b.jpg)
lemme know if you have questions.
-
you could buy these from flatlandfuel and you would have a few spares in case you loose some- http://flatlandfuel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=232
i don't know the exact size, i just took my bearing into a bike shop and matched them visually and bought some for a few bucks.
-
even though alot of us have done this over the years, it is nice to have someone take the time to write it out/help out for the people that don't know. So Thanks Again....Much Apreated! =)
-
so any report on how it feels?
not that i have a nankai... just curious ;D ;D
-
hm :huh:.... i think i will try that next time i take it apart
-
The smoothest Nankai I've come across hands down was one ran without bearing cages.
-
You have just given me an idea of what I want to do in my spare time at work tomorrow.
-
Anyone have a profile shell with a 9 tooth driver and done this....? The balls will show on the driver side account the dust cover is off. If someone has, do you have pics, did you cover it or let them show. thanks.
-
well in case your still wondering, it doesnt work with the nankai shell. It just feels like crap. I'd rather see if I can work on a project where I machine a new shell and make it entirely sealed.
-
yea thats how i been riding my nankai ever since i got it 5th/ 6th hand...
few years back, and ya it does work...supa smooth...
never really knew any different anyways..
but thanks for the enlightenment
:wub:
-
lol you don't need a rubber band
as long as you hold everything pretty level the bearings should stay in place.
-
So wait - this does NOT work with the standard Nankai shell? Only with the profile? Before I f anything up lol let a bruva know!!! If I can get the Nankai even smoother that'd be great but if it's not worth it I'm fine w it as is....
-
So wait - this does NOT work with the standard Nankai shell? Only with the profile? Before I f anything up lol let a bruva know!!! If I can get the Nankai even smoother that'd be great but if it's not worth it I'm fine w it as is....
I don't have profile shell & it works fine for me but if you're fine with yours now I wouldn't worry about it. It doesnt make a huge difference. Just go to your local bike shop and buy a bag of extra bearings for buck or two, so when the time comes and you need to clean out your hub, you can go ahead and remove them from the casings.
-
For the Nankai Bamboo Freecoaster (NOT the new alluminum bamboo),
and 1 piece 9 tooth driver, here are the sizes:
- 7/32 inch bearings - you'll need 17 balls per side, so 34 total.
these will replace the 9 balls per cage with 17 looseballs
- 1/8 inch bearings - for the driver, you'll need ALOT of these,
can't remember how many, three packs of a dozen should do it and
give you spares too
-
does this work on profile shell?
-
does this work on profile shell?
Sure.
-
Anyone have size and ball number for the techno lite with a 9t driver?
-
Anyone have size and ball number for the techno lite with a 9t driver?
You'll need 14 5/32" balls for the driver, and 30 (15 per side) 7/32" balls for the hub shell.
http://flatlandfuel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1558 (http://flatlandfuel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1558)
^^Call them if you can't find what you're looking for!
-
Thanks!
-
Thanks!
Anytime, bro! :ph34r:
-
well in case your still wondering, it doesnt work with the nankai shell. It just feels like crap. I'd rather see if I can work on a project where I machine a new shell and make it entirely sealed.
This was pretty much the same result I got from this mod... anyone know in what situations this mod won't work? Mine just kept seizing up...
-
well in case your still wondering, it doesnt work with the nankai shell. It just feels like crap. I'd rather see if I can work on a project where I machine a new shell and make it entirely sealed.
This was pretty much the same result I got from this mod... anyone know in what situations this mod won't work? Mine just kept seizing up...
This mod works with:
-Any loose ball American BB and one-piece cranks
-Any loose ball front and rear hub
-Any loose ball headset (1" threaded and 1-1/8" threadless)
I've done this mod myself with the steel Techno Lite shell, the aluminum Nankai shell, and with the Profile shell. I've never had a single problem with these Nankais ever. They worked flawlessly!
-
will this mod work with the quamen decoration cap? i have one of those on mines.. i have the old regular nankai and i put the ti axle and quamen decoration cap on it..
-
Alloy Nankai Bamboo Freecoaster,
7/32" balls, 15 per side, so 30 total
1/8" balls (9 tooth driver), 19 total
-
So I have a Nankai on the way and really wanted to buy higher grade bearings to run loose but, after some research am doubting this mod is worth the extra time, money, and work. I have yet to find any hard evidence loose balls run smoother than caged. From my finding it's all he said she said. The debate is in whether there is more friction caused by the tin caged bearings found in Nankai hubs or loose ball bearings which have the freedom to rub against one another resulting is more friction. It seems possible to me that people that have done this mod feel it makes the hub feel smoother simply because they are installing new bearings. I'm weary of experimenting here with my own hub since it's new. Does anyone know where I can find hard evidence loose is better than caged? Or can anyone assure me this mod is worth the effort from their own experience? My worries are that I'll prematurely wear the hub down due to the added friction of running loose bearings that could possible be harder than the ones originally found in the Nankai hubs. Does anyone know what grade bearings come stock on Nankai hubs?
-
it's not worth it.. with proper adjustment it will run perfectly fine with the cages. i pulled apart my favorite wheel to do this mod and it's still f'd. i'm going to get cages and put those on now..
-
it's not worth it.. with proper adjustment it will run perfectly fine with the cages. i pulled apart my favorite wheel to do this mod and it's still f'd. i'm going to get cages and put those on now..
How was the hub running before you tried the mod?
-
Cages and balls will ware. You can tell by taking your hub apart one day and all your balls fall out of their cages. Using a ballsy mod will distribute the load more evenly but it is a bitch to do on the non-drive side; or at least to me it is. I've had balls sneak out of their races and into the hub shell from that side(not a good thing...). I don't think it really rolls much, if any, better, overall. I do it on my driver and drive side bearing though. Not at all hard on that side and you don't have much to loose, and since most of the load is on the drive side, maybe your hub/ bearings will last longer. Like Furball said above, it works on pretty much all models of Nankai and stuff that is unsealed. As far as making it smoother, no, get a sealed coaster if you want smooth, or get a Nankai if you want it to last.
-
It was running perfectly but I put the ti axle on it and figured why not try the mod while it's apart.. I used the balls from my old cages, which were apparently worn because the balls came right out with them, and bought new ones from fuel..
-
So I took the original caged bearings out of my week old Nankai hub and went loose-ball. I wouldn't say loose-ball is smoother. I carefully adjusted the hub when I first got it and when I swapped the bearings just the same and didn't notice my wheel rolling anymore than it was before or feeling smoother. Perhaps this is due to the Park grease being thicker than the original grease that came in the hub. In any case I didn't expect much. I will say that my rear wheel feels more solid when I pedal. Aside from that the only other advantage I see in going loose-ball is that you can easily find high grade loose ball bearings opposed to lesser quality caged ball-bearings commonly found at local bike shops which will wear down faster causing your Nankai to feel rough. I have a friend who never changed his bearings and just kept re-greasing them and now his Nankai feels sh*tty. I doubt it will ever be the same, even with new bearings. So there is my experience with this "mod".
-
Never changed my caged bearings, hub is at least 10 years old, and runs smoother and spins longer than just about any sealed hub or ballsy mod hub Ive seen. I also use thick red sticky car bearing grease. Go figure. ???
Im working on KenNJ's ballsy modded Nankai, and I gotta say, Im not all that impressed with the ballsy mod. Just re-did another Nankai hub for another friend that had cages...smooth as KY! B)
-
Thanks again for hooking that up brother! Your the real deal Nankmaster!
-
Ken, Ive never had any sort of issue dialing a Nankai, but sorry to say I tried everything with that ballsy mod and couldnt get it totally dialed to my standards.
Double and triple checked correct bearing size and count...its all good.
One thing that I always check and forget to do this time, is the inside of the hub shell and driver for pitting along the bearing tracks. Although I didnt feel any irregularities while cleaning out the old grease. Gonna give it one more go later tonite and check for pitting. Perhaps one or more of the loose balls is slightly irregular? Dunno, but I guess that could be possible. Scares me to have to keep playing with it due to it having a ti axle. Either way it goes, its still gonna work better than it did when ya handed it to me.
I tested yours with the ballsy against the one I did for Kool with "caged" bearings, and his spins forever and feels smooth like a sealed job, while the ballsy just feels so so.
My review on the ballsy mod...
Completely not worth it. For one it takes twice as long to break down and build back up. Another issue Id have is that if youre out at your spot and gotta work on your hub, it would be very easy to lose a few bearings while fixing it, plus youd have to ad more grease to get the balls to stick back in there and its just messy. At least with caged you can just pop em in and out at will and wouldnt even have to get your hands greasy at the spot. I can see how the ballsy could give you a more solid wheel since youve got more surface contact between the bearings and shell, but other than that, Im still not sold on it. I'll keep my cages.
-
I did this to an old hub that was really bad, now it's smooth as butter. I also used emery cloth to polish all the bearing races. Doubt if there would be much difference between caged or not, but loose bearings are $5 for 100 so that'll keep me rolling along smooth for years to come. Used Moray's red n tacky grease and the bearings will stay put plus you'll not need to change it often.
Curious if your rolling problems are there with the wheel off the bike, or only when you tighten it down in the frame? Especially with a ti axle the dropouts being off even a fraction of a degree will cause problems.
-
My rolling issue is with it OFF the bike(not mounted in the dropouts).
If it doesnt feel right off the bike, it may only get worse on the bike.
Im going to break the hub down once more and check all the races, someting I always do but forgot to do this time around. If theres a pit or 2 in any of the races, I will feel better at least knowing why it doesnt roll as nice as I know of capable of getting it to.
-Axle is super straight, in fact straighter than Ive seen any chromo to be lately.
-Spring is pretty much perfect and tab is set on correct side.
-Clutch looked good(but wouldnt affect the roll of the wheel anyway).
-Brake cone is secure.
-Bearings are all in place...nothing shifted out of place(took extra care to assure that)
If there isnt any issues with the races, I'll have to assume there's irregularies in one or more of the loose balls. Maybe slightly off round or not ground properly, in which case I have no way to tell which on(s) it is. They all looked and felt good to the naked eye and hand, but those 2 senses only get u so far.
-
i wanted to learn more about how the nank worked and i jacked it up in the process but even if it doesn't meet your standards when it's finished i'll still be happier than a pig in $hit.. that hub hasnt seen this much love since it was conceived..
-
Its fully functional my brutha. I had it mounted on my bike to check for play and there was none.
The wheel spins decent enough when mounted, but just doesnt get to where it keeps rocking back and forth til the valve stem side of the wheel settles on the bottom...You know, like how youre KHE front hub does and how my Nanks usually do. Totally ridable tho...just dont take it apart again for like another 6+ months cuz I'll be in therapy. :P
Hit me up later, let me know whens a good time to pass thru with your wheel...unless u can wait til the wknd cuz I most likely gotta be up in N.JerZ then anyway.