Author Topic: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel  (Read 1933 times)

Offline Mambocowboy

  • Hitchhiker
  • *****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2021, 08:13:57 AM »
Quote from: mambocowboy
I love my Ares tires. Better than Box imo.

The short times I've ridden on ares tires I've loved them too. Went with 1.75s for now, though I've been considering trying the 1.9s at some point. I had a box on my rear wheel over the winter. I hated it at first, something about it felt really off but after a week and some wear in, I grew to like it but not enough that I'll be buying another pair. Sure are light weight though but also quite thin, I had several punctures over its life that might not have happened had it been a little thicker.
The Box go bald way faster than the Ares for me...

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2021, 10:00:08 AM »
Yea that too, mine only had tread for a short while as it disappears quickly so was bald pretty much most of its life. Rode until the threads were showing pretty bad to try and get the most out of it.

Offline metalbmxer

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2021, 01:23:48 AM »
Nonsense thatís just Pat reducing the liability he bears from the tires blowing up. Air em up and ride it same day

That may very well be the case but so far every a class I've over owned failed from a blowout due to failure of the bead. One immediately after inflating, the second 15 minutes after inflating during a hang 5 (scary!) the third randomly blew over night after having been fine and stable at the same pressure for a few weeks and I think I may have even had a fourth that made it for awhile too but can't remember now. All of these were on wider then recommended rims (hazard lites) and admittedly a few psi higher then I should have gone, so I consider these failures mostly my fault.

But... I figured trying to ease them into near their rated psi can't hurt plus I'm not ready to switch yet anyways (lazy and dreading the adjustment to new tires period). I put 85 psi into them this morning, now up to 95 psi and then I'll go to 105 before bed. Tomorrow 115 then they day after 120 which is when I'm planning to install them and test em out. Overkill, I know, but i wasn't planning on installing them until then anyways.

hmm let me ask you something, what bead A class tire are you running? Kevlar or steel bead? I've had bad luck with the 3 I got from this batch that I won't ever run folding tires again. Steel all the way and not an issue. And I was even running under the advertised PSI anywhere from 110-120 on those tires. Sun Envy rims. The steel haven't caused a single blowout
Dax (now in NYC)

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2021, 03:16:58 AM »
Quote from: metalbmxer
hmm let me ask you something, what bead A class tire are you running? Kevlar or steel bead? I've had bad luck with the 3 I got from this batch that I won't ever run folding tires again. Steel all the way and not an issue. And I was even running under the advertised PSI anywhere from 110-120 on those tires. Sun Envy rims. The steel haven't caused a single blowout

I've had it happen with both though I think it was only once with the steal bead and the others were foldable Kevlar, it's been awhile so I don't remember exactly anymore. I'll probably go with steal bead if I have blowout problems again, this time I tried the foldable ones so 🤞

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2021, 03:29:53 AM »
So I put the new wheels on today and it feels good! Scale says the bike is now almost 2.5 lbs lighter, definitely feels it! The back wheel especially is soooo nice, the axle on my old nankai was bent ever so slightly so it was causing rolling resistance, I didn't realize how much until today. Back wheel tricks feel soooo smooth now.

But having problems with the front wheel. Before installation the wheel spun perfectly but as I tighten up the pegs via the axle bolts it seems to cause the hub to tighten up.. I've never used a hub like this - female axle - so maybe I'm doing something wrong. I tried very carefully to tighten each side going back and forth a little by little between pegs, but no matter what the hub gets tightened down to where it no longer spins well. And I can feel it when I tried a front wheel rolling trick, there is resistance. I need to take it off again and take another look. Hub is armour bikes F1 grenade hub.


« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 03:40:32 AM by aliasdck »

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2021, 03:58:54 AM »
I've never seen a hub like this, I've only ever used ones with male axle with cone and lock nuts for adjusting
. But this one has a female axle, no cone nuts just guards that cover the ends. But it's like the female axle part is just a few mm too short so that when the axle bolts get tightened down when the hub is in the dropouts that it all gets compressed together just a wee bit too much (hopefully that makes sense?)

Offline metalbmxer

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2021, 09:55:11 AM »
I've never seen a hub like this, I've only ever used ones with male axle with cone and lock nuts for adjusting
. But this one has a female axle, no cone nuts just guards that cover the ends. But it's like the female axle part is just a few mm too short so that when the axle bolts get tightened down when the hub is in the dropouts that it all gets compressed together just a wee bit too much (hopefully that makes sense?)

my first instinct says send it back tomorrow. Ask for a different hub (gsport or odyssey). The QC it's possible just isn't there from Armour. They made other great components but hubs is a different story. I had the same problem on a batch of front and rear profile hubs one time. Never rolled right.

But wait b4 you send it back consider this-->The only other workarounds I'd recommend are trying to put a small small shim in between the fork and hub to space it out (or could grind down the female axle). Also double check your fork isn't somehow cranking down on the wrong part of the hub. Also, I'd lose the hub guards all together. Can you swap out for the regular cones instead? Maybe don't need to torque it down too hard.....

Finally you can pop the shims off the sealed bearings and spray a little WD40 in there. Perhaps the grease isn't right / overdone inside.

Keep us posted on your progress
Dax (now in NYC)

Offline metalbmxer

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2021, 09:59:32 AM »
btw the all black bike with machined finish rims looks fuggin great man wow

glad you saved a whole 2.5 pounds. how much psi you running?

ps just checked that hub out. don't know what you mean about it coming with hub guards. also he's put alot of attention to detail making it a dialled hub. can't see him getting the cones wrong but you never know...
Dax (now in NYC)

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2021, 10:23:32 AM »
Thank you. Pressure is currently 120. The sidewall of my tires claim they can be inflated to 125 but I'm not pushing it any further.


No I don't believe an error in assembly was made, flatlandfuel did a great job. The hub looks exactly like it's photo. What I referred to as guards are probably more accurately the cones as you suggested. Just once I tighten it down in the fork (via tightening the axle bolts) everything is essentially being squished together just a tiny bit too much resulting in the wheel spinning poorly. I'll take it apart and have a look in the afternoon.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 10:33:58 AM by aliasdck »

Offline DaddyCool

  • Deathtrucker
  • ********
  • Posts: 780
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2021, 05:18:21 PM »
Hello aliasdck, good to hear about the weight saving! Not so good to hear about your front hub issue. I only use one female hub (on my several bikes) and this also uses "press fit cones" which are only kind of washers and no thread. The problem in my case was: When you tighten the bolts, the dropouts are pressed against the "cones" and these press against the bearing. If the distance of the bearing areas on the axle is not 100 % the same as in the hub shell, the bearing is getting some side load which easily makes it not rolling smooth.
All this could be avoided by having normal cones with threads. I have almost no idea why 97% of all female hubs don't have it, maybe because it is cheaper/easier to produce.
One needs to distinguish two issues:
1. The axle bearing distance is too big. Then the hub typically runs smooth but when you ride on the front wheel in a curve with side load (by your body weight), then the hub shell will be shifted left to right on the bearings (with quick wear) and of course this is annoying.2. The axle bearing distance is too small. Then the inner ring of the bearing is pressed to the inside whereas the outer ring is not. This side load causes the hub not rolling smoothly.
What is the reason? From my understanding it is the tolerances in production.
What to do? First of all it is good to know the exact bearing distance in the hub shell and on the axle. In both cases (it seems you have case 2), you can try to add some very thin washers which you put "behind" the bearing. For case 2 you would need something like in the pictures.
By the way: It is not easy to find such washers (an online dictionary says they are called "shim ring") . I was lucky to find some in 0.1 mm, 0.2 mm and 0.5 mm for both the outer and inner ring of a hub bearing.
I find it difficult to try to explain this. I hope you get the idea.

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2021, 08:41:23 PM »
Daddycool, thank you so much for your advice. The problem appears to #2 as you described. I still need to take it apart for a closer look and I'll probably talk to Pat and see if he has any thoughts.

This is very frustrating. It was an expensive hub ($112 USD) with high quality/precision bearings so I expected much less problems especially 'right out of the box'

Hopefully I can find a solution, I'll look into the washer idea you displayed in the photos but it seems like adding washers, even 'behind' the bearings would only make the problem worse? But I need to take a closer look first, maybe I'm visualizing it wrong. It seems like either the female axle would need to be ever so slightly longer or the cones just a little bit thinner.

Offline metalbmxer

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2021, 10:30:14 PM »
Daddycool, thank you so much for your advice. The problem appears to #2 as you described. I still need to take it apart for a closer look and I'll probably talk to Pat and see if he has any thoughts.

This is very frustrating. It was an expensive hub ($112 USD) with high quality/precision bearings so I expected much less problems especially 'right out of the box'

Hopefully I can find a solution, I'll look into the washer idea you displayed in the photos but it seems like adding washers, even 'behind' the bearings would only make the problem worse? But I need to take a closer look first, maybe I'm visualizing it wrong. It seems like either the female axle would need to be ever so slightly longer or the cones just a little bit thinner.

as you're seeing its a major pain in the ass. Send it back to pat ASAP without riding it.
Dax (now in NYC)

Offline DaddyCool

  • Deathtrucker
  • ********
  • Posts: 780
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2021, 11:33:04 PM »
I had this problem with a used hub with an aluminium axle. Here the thicker parts of the axle where the inner ring of the bearing pushes against were damaged a bit resulting in a smaller distance from bearing to bearing on the axle.
Your hub is new and I agree to metalbmxer that this is kind of not acceptable.
If you want to make it run I am pretty sure that these shim rings could help. The thing is: If the distance of the bearing on the axle is too small, the cones push the inner ring to the inside of the hub whereas the outer ring of the bearing stays in its position. This is the side load for the bearing. If you add a shim ring, the axle is supporting the inner bearing rings from the inside and the forces are taken by the axle. That is why it works as long as what I am trying to describe is the root cause.
I have never seen a male hub with cones without threads, but I assume the same problem might occur. So in the end I think it is not a female axle issue, but an issue of "cones" without threads. This is so stupid...

Offline aliasdck

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 416
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2021, 12:03:48 AM »
Thanks very much guys. I only tried riding on it for less than 5 minutes. I'll contact Pat, hopefully he can help. Again, as always, thank you so much for help and advice. This online community may be small but it kicks butt!

Offline Mambocowboy

  • Hitchhiker
  • *****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Selecting parts for a new rear wheel
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2021, 12:47:11 AM »
Thanks very much guys. I only tried riding on it for less than 5 minutes. I'll contact Pat, hopefully he can help. Again, as always, thank you so much for help and advice. This online community may be small but it kicks butt!
Sorry you're going through that . Unacceptable like what others have said.