Author Topic: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?  (Read 3633 times)

Offline dcochran4

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I've been riding my Autum Razzia 19.3TT with 12.5 Chainstays of and on for the better part of 2 years. I have since picked up a LOT more street style riding while also making progress in flatland. I am looking to buy a new frame that will accommodate a 14mm axle freecoaster, but with the same or similar short chainstay length. This leaves me with a dilemma:

1) Have a custom frame made with the dropouts I'm looking for and a similar sized TT.

OR

2) Buy a street style frame with the same chainstay length. I had in mind the BSD ALVX in 20.3 TT that has 12.5 CS. This would be a full inch bigger than my current Razzia TT.

I'm terrified that I will drop the money on the BSD and end up hating the longer TT. I would like some input on this. I am running a 35mm stem and some Animal Scerbo bars.
Another concern is the full degree of deviation in the headtube angle: from 74.5 to 75.5

Offline out~riding

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2017, 07:02:12 PM »
If you ride any frame long enough you will get used to it but...

yes going from 19.3 to 20.3 is a big difference you will notice. Whiplashes and such tricks will become considerably slower. The head tube angle you won't notice as much.

Offline out~riding

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 07:17:36 PM »
With the specs you mention I would probably recommend the 2016 WTP Utopia.
It's got a 20" TT, 12.75 slammed and 75º.

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 08:53:57 PM »
Hello,
I would also say that one inch more will make a big difference. Maybe you can set the seat differently so that it is not so much more away from the handlebar. With the steeper head angle, which you migh also recognise as a big difference, the wheelbase maybe is not that different. I feel that the wheelbase makes a difference in a caboose position for example or a hitchhiker.
So I would expect to feel a big change. That does not mean that you can not get used to it...
I think out~riding's suggestion to buy a Utopia really makes sense. Less difference in TT and HT will make it feel more similar to what you are used to.
Hope that helps.

Offline sakis

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 11:51:17 PM »
Huge difference! I wouldn buy it except if you are taller than 180-185.
The bike will be very slow and you ll get very tired fast,also you ll progress slowly in flatland..

Offline dcochran4

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 05:48:34 AM »
Thanks for the input. It is confusing because I see all the street/park guys running 21"+ top tube frames with huge backends, but I find myself more comfortable on shorter frames with shorter chainstays than even most modern flatland frames.

I have also considered a Fit Benny L frame, which is available in a 20TT with 12.7 chainstays, but also with that steep 75.5 head tube angle. Would this be a better option? or would I just be better off having a frame custom made?

Offline out~riding

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 01:52:28 PM »
or would I just be better off having a frame custom made?

It only makes sense to make a custom frame if:

A- You know exactly the specs you want/suit you

B- You can afford it

Offline out~riding

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 03:10:05 PM »
I have also considered a Fit Benny L frame, which is available in a 20TT with 12.7 chainstays, but also with that steep 75.5 head tube angle. Would this be a better option?



The only reason I would choose the 2016 WTP Utopia over the FIt benny v2 is the standover height is a bit lower (and also the integrated chain tensioners). Other than that they are pretty much the same.

Offline eightyfivegt

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Offline dcochran4

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 10:25:48 PM »
I see that they claim to have minimized the dropout size on the Utopia, and that concerns me as I know my grinds are not, and will not be for a while, graceful or exacted in a way that would minimize stress on the frame. That gives me cause for concern. At the moment I'm leaning toward a Ketch custom with 19.5TT, 12.5 CS, 74.5 HTA, 7.5 STA, 7.5" standover. Not sure about the BB height yet. I welcome input on these dimensions.

Offline DaddyCool

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 10:31:57 PM »
I agree again with out~riding  B) : Custom makes sense if you really know what geometry you like. I chose my custom geometry for example after comparing two frames with very similar angles and CS and 19.2" TT vs. 19.5" TT...
Kevin Nikulski for example is really not tall and rides a 20.5" TT (nor sure). So one can do it. The question is: Is it better? Is is only for the street trend? In the end it is personal preference, but I would also not say that a 20" TT is suitable unless you are 1.85 m or taller.
If money is not such a big issue I would just try one of the frames discussed. You can also sell it if you do not like it after a few weeks.
For the Fit frame you could also think about this headset:
http://www.global-flat.com/parts/part/836
or these:
http://flatlandfuel.com/stmartinajforkrisers.aspx
to have the HT angle down to 75° or 74.5°.
In this case the wheelbase gets a little bit longer (only a few mm) but you would have the angle you are used to.
About you custom suggestion: 75° ST? Or 7x.5°? A steep ST makes the wheelbase longer if the rest is fixed. The other measurements seem reasonable from my point of view. I recommend to check the wheelbase for your custom geometry.

Offline out~riding

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 11:38:32 PM »
I see that they claim to have minimized the dropout size on the Utopia, and that concerns me as I know my grinds are not, and will not be for a while, graceful or exacted in a way that would minimize stress on the frame. That gives me cause for concern.


So you actually want to do some grinding?
I'm not really worried about the dropouts, if you look at both the WTP actually seems to have more metal on the bottom...




Offline dcochran4

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 12:31:15 AM »
I do plan to do a lot of grinding. I can't argue with the pictures. I have a lot of thinking to do

Offline eightyfivegt

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Re: From 19.3 TT to 20.3 - how much difference does one inch make?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 06:25:31 PM »
Have a welder tack on some grind plates for you.  A little paint touch up work would be needed.