Author Topic: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)  (Read 7804 times)

Offline out~riding

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2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« on: December 29, 2015, 03:00:35 PM »
What is your opinion on the new Haro Master?

Quote from: Flatland Fuel
Retro style but modern construction and geometry. The long awaited Haro Master frame is almost here. Delivery is expected in March and the final frame cost will be $399.99. Only 100 will be available worldwide and a $100 deposit will hold yours. 
  • 100% 4130 Chromoly of course
  • 19.5" tt
  • 74.5 degree head angle
  • 70 degree degree seat tube angle
  • 13.125"-14" chainstay length
  • 14mm dropouts with integrated chain tensioners
  • Integrated headset
  • Mid BB
  • Removeable gyro tabs, cable stops and brake mounts
  • Chrome only
  • Approx 5 lb



Link: http://flatlandfuel.com/haromasterframepreorderdeposit.aspx

Offline JUGGARNAUT

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 06:54:58 PM »
Cool!!

Offline HighLander

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 08:46:07 PM »
A 19tt with shorter chain stays would be awesome.
One Last Ride.

Offline azflatlander

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2016, 06:49:19 AM »
Nice looking frame overall  :beer: They played it safe geometry wise  :huh:

For an old school "Retro" frame, it lags chainstay brake pivots that are ideal for old school tricks and why removable brake pivots and tabs?  :rolleyes: I doubt any "True" old schooler is going to ride this frame brakeless and more, any new schooler is going to purchase this frame :P

Also, the seat tube angle.. Why? Isn't this old school "Retro" ??? Just taking tricks earned away  :angry: Even the mid school guys rode steeper angles so some of those tricks scrapped too.. no laid back option here (kinda needed at 19.5) for us "Real Old Schoolers" you know the era the frame "Represents"

Once again playing it safe  :angry:

They got the ht angle right finally  :beer: Even the new schoolers see the benefit of a relaxed 74 or 74.5 ht angle  :ph34r:

The rear end is perfect! Even a 13.5 slammed would've been even better but you short ppl want to do Death Trucks too

A short rear end would be pointless on a retro frame.. What's "Retro" about that :huh:

Overall, this is a nice frame but the old schoolers still can't bust a cherry picker for old time sake without getting their feet stuck the seat stay brakes, nor can they grab the seat and handlebar within a half inch cause the angle won't permit it :rolleyes:

But Subrosa did the same with the Flatt.. the complaint of that bike was the seat tube angle too. Probably why not many are still ridden  :rolleyes:

73 or 72 st .. somebody will build it with a platform  :mellow:

The Autumn Katze got it right!  :beer:

I'm glad Haro is back though  :beer:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 01:48:03 PM by azflatlander »

Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 11:08:22 PM »
I dont think the idea was to recreate the old Master in the sense of doing old tricks. I think it more to bring the old school master style into the newschool. Being an oldschool rider myself if i want to do old school tricks im going to get an oldschool bike/set up. Yea i rode BITD but i still ride now and i dont really want to stay stuck in the 80's.


Now, all that said...I had done cherrypickers with a ODY bulldog mounted under the seatstays back in the mid 80s when i still had the early master without the 990 mounts and it wasnt an issue. So the brake mounts being on the seatstays rather than the chainstays wont effect doing a trick like that if my heart so desires.


I also do think any tricks will be scrpped because if a slight headtube angle difference or seatube angle difference. Ive seen plenty of riders do the same tricks with plenty of different set ups. To say  that a seatube or headtube angle will make you just have to scrap a trick is kind of silly. Yea you may need to adjust, but scrapping a trick would in my book mean giving up.


the handlebar/seat line up thing can be done on a subrosa..i did it on mine. With the comeback of wider bars its completely possible. You can also get that slightly laidback pivitol post..i forget who makes it, and flip it backwards to get the seat closer if you REALLY wanted to do that



I ordered this frame because it has the old school look and the DTT i always loved but is geared more to modern riding. Although the old school master was mainly a flatland frame, many riders rode all disciplines on it, and i feel this new master may follow suit.

Offline azflatlander

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 11:55:52 PM »
The head angle is not silly to say if you know your angles  :rolleyes:

The head angles play a big part into the way tricks feel... Therefore, a rider may feel its easier to scrap the trick than to fight their bike.

Now you may want to do "Modern" tricks like all the clones today cause you're feeling left behind but some of us ride for the Fun of riding  :beer: Kinda who this frame is geared to who?  :huh: Exactly

I've called out angles for years and nobody followed suit until a new schooler took the concept and changed the way you guys think. From handle bars, stems and frames. You guys are just followers to say the least  :rolleyes:

I will say the Haro frame is a great attempt and I get the mix for the combination  :beer:

These new retro frames sell like crazy because of the look, not because they will be ridden so there's your sell out :wacko:

Unfortunately, there are some real riders out there that will actually ride this frame and not for a collection value of it but for the reason why a frame is made .. to ride  :beer:

And yes.. seat stay brakes hender Cherry pickers for ppl who LOVE TO RIDE!  :wub:


Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2016, 05:56:31 PM »
When did i say the headangles were silly? Never said that.My point was, Ive rode with 75 HTA ,74, and 74.5..i didnt lose or give up on any tricks between those. Is it slightly different? yes of course, does it take a little adjusting, yes, but what i said was SCRAPPING A TRICK BECAUSE OF IT WAS SILLY. i dont think a REAL rider would do such a thing. A couple of sessions and your used to it. Honestly the only angle i really didnt like was 76 on a quamen i had in the early 2000's..that was a little too steep, but you know what..i got used to it while i had it and still had FUN....but eventually switched back to 75. I do like the Ht on this one though..i had a quamen with it and i liked it alot.

I'm "old", i dont ride alot anymore due to time/life responsibilities etc..i ONLY ride for FUN....the style of riding i like...is more midschool than old school ...the plywood hoods era as i like to call it. As dificult and impressive as the new school riding is, its not my thing personally. I think midschool is more visually appealingand the best mix of challenging and fun for me.


Yes of course it is marketed towards oldschool riders visually but you cant just start lumping me personally into some group. You dont know how i ride..i dont appreciate being called a follower either. I just like what i like, because i ride to have fun..regardless of the era the trick came out in.


That said, I suppose I should have said it was a "modernized design" rather than it was geared for modern riding. What i meant was, it has an integrated HT, mid bb, no platforms on the chainstays upgraded seatube/toptube jucntion, removable brake mounts etc etc. Overall made better, to modern standards. I didnt mean it was designed for modern tricks. that was my bad.

Dont assume that im not going to ride the frame. i AM going to ride it. If i owned a bike i wouldnt ride now, it would be the oldschool Haro Master as to not ruin a classic...this one will be ridden. I dont care if its limited, or what anyone else does, but i WILL be riding it. im not a collector. i DO RIDE, even if it is alot less than i used to.


If your so positive that a seatstay mounted brake will hinder doing a cherrypicker, then explain to me how i did cherrypickers just fine with an under seat stay mounted pitbull brake on my 84 master??


As long and the top tube/standover isnt super low like most of the modern/current frames (and its not on this new Master btw) it doesnt effect it at all. the low toptube/standover with the brake on the seatstays is what hinders it. 


Now you have made me want to try a cherrypicker on this thing once i have it. I havent done one in a while and im a little fatter than i used to be lol..but im going to try it, and if my fat ass can do it, im taking video lol..if i cant it wont be because of the brake, it'll be because im old and fat lol




« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 05:58:57 PM by VisionStreetWear »

Offline johnu773

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 03:36:14 PM »
19" tt and 19.5" option would be good.  A steeper seat angle would make this much better. Brett downs had a lot of input on this frame which is shocking see as how steep the big daddy seat angle was (Him & Kevin) worked on that frame too).
If it doesn't feel right to me (or feels like the Subrosa did) I'll be dropping it like a bad habit.

My custom Ketch is still riding great, I'm only interested in this for the framestand...

Offline azflatlander

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2016, 04:03:10 PM »
Ok, Are these going to be offered in the green color, etc and why so limited?  -_-

Offline out~riding

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 12:38:20 PM »
Quote from: Flatland Fuel
Big news! Flatlandfuel has managed to acquire another 50 chrome Flatland Master frames.
The first 50 sold out fast! Don't miss this one. Accepting pre-orders now for late April delivery.

http://flatlandfuel.com/haromasterframepreorderdeposit.aspx

Offline OlderThanDirt

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 11:59:16 PM »
What is your opinion on the new Haro Master?
I'll let you know when mine arrives :ph34r:

As a "never really good at flatland in the 80's and 90's but always wanted a chrome Master" rider, I intend to ride mine when I get it.  I like the rear brake on the seat stay, however, with the seat stay being as short as it is, it's clear I won't be putting my size 12.5 shoe in that area very often.

I had a 2016 DMC Master for about 2 weeks before I sold it to get this bike.  If this bike's frame is of the same quality as the DMC Master, it's going to be a beauty in chrome. 

My DMC Master "being born", only to be sold shortly thereafter...


Offline pwh4130

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 02:10:27 PM »
Hello guys.  Brett Downs here.  Thanks for your input.  While I'm not with Haro anymore, I can give you some background info.

I gave the white prototype to Kevin to ride.  First thing he did was a forward side glide and then a cherry picker.  He just had a baby and wasn't riding tons so I got it back from him to test.

The Big Daddy had a 74.5 head tube angle and a 70 degree seat tube angle.  That's why I chose this geometry.

I went with a 19.5 top tube because a little extra room up front isn't bad as we don't move as fast as we used to and some of us don't weigh 145 pounds anymore.  I also see a lot of riders going to longer frame both in the top tube and chain stay length.  I talked to Pat Schoolen and he told me that when he got Strowler frames the longer version always sold out first. 

The rear end is 13.1 slammed which is plenty short for modern flat.  It will go to 14" all the way back. 

I have a Subrosa Aggro Rag Flatt frame built up and it feels very different from this Haro Master.

I designed this frame thinking nobody under 35 would want it.  I thought about what older guys ride and what tricks they do.  You put a guy riding a 10 year old frame on a modern flat bike like a St. Martin and he can't ride it.  I also thought this bike would work for serious flat but also be versatile enough for the casual flatland rider who does some tricks, curb jumps, street and wants to hit the skatepark.  I've jumped huge box jumps and ridden a 14 foot vert ramp on mine.  I haven't been able to do that on a flat frame in ages.  It's way more of a flatland bike than anything Haro has done since the M7 frame in 2006.  It's also versatile enough to earn the name "Freestyler".

Haro is making 150 and sold out in 24 hours.  The dealers sold out in about 36 hours.  I had originally planned 300 but Haro played it conservative.  That's also why they only did one size and finish. 

I had 50 different people ride my prototype and they all handed it back and said they liked it.  I wouldn't tell them the geometry until after they handed it back to me.  Don't get so hung up on numbers. 

These frames are already sold and to say Haro should have done this or that is pointless.  My idea was to bring something to the table that wasn't there already.  You won't find another bike with this geometry and that isn't a bad thing.  What's the point of making what is already out there?  There will be guys who build it up as a show bike (I hate that!) but there will be plenty of riders out there all the time.  I've been riding my prototype for almost a year and it's holding up great.  You guys have to remember that while I did this looking out for the flatland community, Haro also has to sell product just like any other business.  You can't fault a frame that sells 150 units in 24 hours. 

I'm proud that I could bring back the Master to the flatland world.  It took over two years of nagging and then I had to take charge of the project so it could happen.  Is it exactly what I would build for myself as a custom bike?  No.  Is it something that meets the target of a frame that is good for flatland, can be ridden at the skatepark, appeals to the consumer?  Yes.  People may argue over specific details but bottom line, it sold and now that I'm not working for Haro and can ride any frame I want, I'm still on it. 

Offline out~riding

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 04:26:59 PM »
with those numbers haro should be planing to release another batch!

Offline 1

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Re: 2016 Haro Master Frame (Limited Edition)
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2016, 06:00:23 PM »
Excellent write up, Brett. Anybody complaining about this bike either 1. doesn't ride, or 2. are so caught up in "sick build, bro" land that they hardly ever ride, and their bike hobby has been reduced to constantly buying and assembling bikes. A growing trend, unfortunately.


I personally am not into anything retro at all...but anybody can say this project was well thought out and done properly.  Cheers!