Author Topic: Flatland disparity for begginers?  (Read 5339 times)

Offline byke

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Flatland disparity for begginers?
« on: April 24, 2014, 10:42:07 PM »
Here is an open ended question.


Do you think that flatland has progressed to such a point where pro flatland geometry preferences has created a disparity for begginers and how they achieve the basics?


For example, zero offset forks, minimal brakes, super responsive rear triangles, high bottom brackets etc ....  are all very well for established riders who have progressed. But as with most begginers wishing to emulate the more established riders, could this type of pro setup or pro geometry that is also aimed at non pro or non established riders be hinderance both in regards to progression, but also the time frame to which development takes place?


I know that some riders will claim that they started riding using such setups, and that it had no negative effect with them. But in all honesty, is this really a comparable measure and if so , against what?


My theory is that if pro geometry wasn't so adopted by many new begginers that maybe we would see faster startup rate in regards to basics and progression. Which in turn could could fuel a greater basis for foundations.


Just a thought.


Night night.

Offline metalbmxer

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 12:59:09 AM »
Seems like all the complete bikes come with a more standard geometry and brakes. So no, I don't think the new "pro" geometry has much effect, however, what does have an effect is attempting to learn without learning the basics ("Ground Rules" DVD).
Dax (now in NYC)

Offline 2flat2furious

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 08:40:47 PM »
Quote
My theory is that if pro geometry wasn't so adopted by many new begginers that maybe we would see faster startup rate in regards to basics and progression. Which in turn could could fuel a greater basis for foundations.

I think we're seeing a lot of up and coming talent that grew up on these kinds of set ups, and they seem to be doing just fine. If there was some sort of evidence that the opposite was happening I would say that yeah, it might be hurting things, but I mean there are so many people riding now on flat specific set ups that are doing just fine. Hell, a lot of people idolize Matthias and set up their bikes like his, and he doesn't ride anything flat specific at all. It's just a bunch of street parts.


Offline DBZ

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 07:33:01 AM »
I've been riding forever, but I consider myself a beginner as far as flatland is concerned--and it won't come as news to any of you to hear that the one thing I've found that is holding me back is being brakeless.


I love the geometry and responsiveness of my Ares set-up, but learning the basics is frustrating at best. Coming from a street riding background, and having ditched brakes years ago (not to mention chopping the mounts off my frame as soon as I got it), I accept it for what it is: a self-imposed handicap. I'm sure there are plenty of younger beginners out there who do not have such perspective, however, and will find grasping the fundamentals of flat exasperating.


Let's face it, though: it's unlikely that younger riders are going to want to ride a bike that doesn't look like that of their favorite professionals--and that almost always means brakeless. In my experience, dialing in brakes is a mystery to most kids anyway, so I'd say that's far more of a factor than the amazing complete bike choices available nowadays from KHE, Ares, St Martin, Suelo and whoever else.





Having said that, I think Odyssey's Springfield brake is a great step in the right direction for this conundrum. It's almost idiot proof ... but I've come to expect younger BMX riders to be able to fvck up just about anything. I keep hearing it doesn't work that well with a lot of forks as a front brake, so that kinda kills its potential for OEM on a flat complete.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 03:39:57 AM by DBZ »
F Y T W

Offline bmxelement90

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 09:51:37 PM »
I started getting into flat seriously this year after riding ramps and got hooked up with a st martin frame. Compared to my ramp bike I feel like I'm progressing faster. Although learning the basics is still killing me. It took me forever just to get infinity rolls and even now its 4/10. Not stopping though haha. Unlike DBZ though, even when I rode street/park I had 2 brakes and 4 pegs, so rocket manuals and pogos come almost naturally lol.

Offline Doses

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 11:12:05 PM »
I have been curious about this as well.. Is there a way to do a poll to see the ages of everyone and if they ride brakes or no brakes?
 
Teens                                  Brakes
Twenties                              Brakeless
Thirties
Forties
 
Interested to see where the majority is .

Offline china flatland

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2014, 05:49:47 AM »
I think to be pro or to adhere to practice every day

Offline KraftyShaman

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 02:19:26 PM »
Seems like all the complete bikes come with a more standard geometry and brakes. So no, I don't think the new "pro" geometry has much effect, however, what does have an effect is attempting to learn without learning the basics ("Ground Rules" DVD).


Basics for sure are key. No matter the set up in my opinion will make a difference in your progress. Until you learn to roll it you can't spin it. I think learning your basic rolling tricks (hang fives, hang tens, carl cruisers, hip packers, wheel chairs, steam rollers, whiplashes etc etc) to a point where you can just go and go (fowards AND backwards) make a big difference in your progression later on more so then set up.

Offline out~riding

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 04:01:46 PM »
I think the biggest problem for a beginner is the difficulty level of tricks today.

Back in the 80's there were a lot of kids riding because there was a good possibility they could reach the pro level fairly quickly/easily... as the progression of riding increased through the 90's only very dedicated riders stuck to flatland.
For today's kids, reaching the level of someone like Viki or Terry is just about impossible without years and years of dedicated practice and that just takes away all motivation or the fun factor.

I think pro riders should start making videos that focus more on the fun/lifestyle of flatland rather than just edits of hard tricks. Most kids are unaware of the "behind he scenes" of flatland and that flatland is much more than pulling contest runs.



Offline siwy

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 05:33:41 PM »
I think, that the point if someone runs with or without brakes is much more important than running a specific geometry or zero offset or whatever. Its really frustrating to learn nothing for months, so its no surprise why many young riders change to street riding or simply quit and trade their bike for a gaming console. With brakes, progress comes faster and that keeps the motivation up, especially at the beginning. Personally, i see no need to unmount my brakes, even if i dont want to use them , i just dont use them. Just for the limitation and the cleaner look? No.

My first bike was a GT Performer. Cant believe that i learned some tricks on it. It is so heavy and in relation to todays bikes very long and hard to spin. I#m sure that i would have learned easier on my todays setup. But it was so much fun!

Offline wolverines

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 06:02:04 PM »
Its really frustrating to learn nothing for months, so its no surprise why many young riders change to street riding or simply quit and trade their bike for a gaming console.




Its actually the opposite here,  weather it be other flatland riders or street riders.... I think a few of us here have met more new riders(both domestic and international riders here now) wanting to ride either flatland or park this year,  than any other year I have lived here.  I don't think the scene is changing here for gaming consoles, but I can see where that could affect some individuals. 

Offline chromoly

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
Quote
I think pro riders should start making videos that focus more on the fun/lifestyle of flatland rather than just edits of hard tricks.
The problem with the videos: -people only watch nice results of times and years of hard work. Not the bad days where nothing worked and everything failed, went back home after a whole day riding, being pissed and feels like throw that bullsh@t into the nxt best corner. But next day wake up and do it again the same way.. haha :beer:
Thats flatland livestyle somehow. But of course there will be a day that sun rise!  ::) 
Cheers!!  :beer:

Offline chromoly

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 07:36:15 PM »
What i meant is that flatland is more about to be pissed, then about the coooool stuff thats to watch @ vids  >:D

Offline 2flat2furious

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 08:26:03 PM »
=
I think pro riders should start making videos that focus more on the fun/lifestyle of flatland rather than just edits of hard tricks. Most kids are unaware of the "behind he scenes" of flatland and that flatland is much more than pulling contest runs.




You really, really, really, really, really do not want to do that.

Offline justfour

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Re: Flatland disparity for begginers?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2014, 12:14:13 AM »
lifestyle of flatland

What is this you speak of?!