Author Topic: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!  (Read 13620 times)

Phatman

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The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« on: September 05, 2013, 06:29:34 PM »
So guys (Well Whoever is still on here) I made a thread about the lack of posts & TJ said something that really struck a chord with me. There is a lack of serious, proper discussion on here! Well this thread is about everything to do with Flatland Frames! Head Tube Angles, Bottom Bracket Heights, Stand Over Heights, Welded, Removable or No Brake Mounts, Paint Finishes, Anything & Everything to do with the modern day Flatland Frame. You don't have to sing their praises either! If there is something you don't like speak up! The reason i chose Frames is because there are so many different Parts available for Flatland Bikes & they all differ greatly, but the Frame is a Frame. There are some differences like i mentioned up there ^ But at the end of the day, Frames are one of the most detailed parts of ANY Flatland Bike & i think this is where we should start our discussions about parts!

Phatman

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 06:41:45 PM »
As you can tell by my Avatar, i am an Autum fan! With their 2013 Frames they have really stepped up their game! I am literally about to finalize payment on a 2013 Razzia, I am not the greatest fan of Removable Brake Mounts & i did try to convince Thomas Hirsch to get me one made without them but it just wasn't possible. I gave in, if i was to get one it would have to be with Removables, however i NEEDED a Frame with 14mm Drop Outs, so after a few emails back & forth to Thomas a deal was struck to get me a 2013 Razzia with 14mm Drop Outs! This is one of my major gripes with Flatland Frames.... 3/8ths Drop Outs! I know a vast majority of Flatland Riders do use 3/8ths Axles, BUT a LOT of very, very good Freecoasters are on the horizon with 14mm Axles only. What frustrates me is, it is SOOOO much easier to have 14mm Drop Outs & run Axle Adaptors than trying to grind out the Drop Outs to fit the Hub or even worse in some cases notch out the Hubs Axle (Which i highly do NOT recommend!) I think ALL Flatland Frames should come with 14mm Drop Outs & then the rider/owner can make the decision whether to run a 14mm Hub or a 3/8ths Hub with decent Axle Adapters! Also a neat little feature on the new Autum 2013 Frames is the Integrated Chain Tensioners, I think these are a f*cking god send! especially as the Autum ones go through the Drop Out so the push against the axle, not the Hubs Cone Nut/Collar (I know some people have issue with them on the axle but i wont go into that now!)
In Short... I would like to see ALL Flatland Frames offered with 14mm Drop Outs with Tensioners that pass through the inside of the Drop Out!

Offline JUGGARNAUT

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 06:44:57 PM »
This will end up in a blow out because of opinions....Thats whats wrong on here..youre not allowed to speak your opinion on things without gettin flamed.Nice thing you did tho..Good luck Bro. I hope Im wrong this time.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 02:38:34 AM by JUGGARNAUT »

Phatman

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 07:16:24 PM »
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions & that's what i want in this thread! However, I do not want people bashing others because they like a "Crap" or "Over Priced" etc etc Frame. This thread is simply to talk about the Frame you own, or a Frame you want to purchase. As i said, you don't have to sing the Frames or Companies praises either! Have you cracked a Frame? Received a faulty Frame? How did the Company in question handle your problem?! If you have a Frame & have a problem with it say it in here & for those reading that problem if you don't agree PLEASE DO NOT BASH THAT MEMBER!! I want this Thread to be a good, FRIENDLY discussion about the ins & outs of every Frame on the market right now!


Keep it clean guys & STAY COOL!

Offline sakis

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 09:09:08 PM »
14 mm dropouts must be standard for riders that ride serious backwheel tricks and jumps.

Offline Keneken

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 10:57:23 PM »
I think I could manage with 3/8ths dropouts if it was a flat specific bike but I'm scrawny lol I ride everything on my bike though so wouldn't want to have anything but 14mm on the back. I hated having to rotate axles to try n get another couple of grinds out of them and I may be scrawny but I'm fairly certain I'm heavier now then when I was 14.
''let me tell ya something i did a front n rear wheel hang on the cloping on the slide of the spine, now i stick to street!''

''do you freestyle?''

However serious you take it general public sees us as just dicking about on 'kids' bikes, some people could do to remember that and smile a little.

Offline MICHELE

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2013, 10:59:03 PM »

i also think that 14 mm drop outs are much better because they give you both options and don't have any disadvantage. I was very happy when i found out that the new heresy frame give you the option to chose the drop out dimension because i really like that frame but i don't want a 3/8 drop out.
i buyed that last week, but if it hadn't 14mm drop out i probably wouldn't had buyed it.
If I ever see a flat rider do a hop-to-wallride, my head would explode.

Offline claytonh

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2013, 11:46:59 PM »
I personality like 14mm dropouts to and think they should be and option on all frames.The thing is i have one wheelset for my street/park bike and flatland,i also weight in at 95kg and 198cm tall so 3/8" on the back has to much flex and i also could not trust it to hold up.
 
As my frame of choice,i recently purchased the last FF St.martin/downtown in 19" and milled the dropouts to 14mm,i had been looking for a frame i like for year or so that would accomadate 14mm.It came down to price and frame design to me.
 
The thing i love about flatland is everbody has there own path that they want to take.

Phatman

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2013, 12:01:51 AM »
It's interesting to see everyone who has posted in this thread so far agrees with me on the 14mm Drop Out thing yet so few companies actually offer Flat specific Frames with 14mm Drop Outs. I had been riding a bit of Street & Flat on a 20" Fit Benny L Frame (Also a VERY good Frame if you are looking for an all round "Streetland" Frame) but after riding both 3/8ths & 14mm Axles you can definitely feel the difference in strength!! As a larger man i have destroyed pretty much every 3/8ths Rear Hub i have ever owned (Except Female Axle Ones, but we wont go there haha this Thread is for Frames!) As some of you guys mentioned 14mm Drop Outs open up opportunities for numerous different Hubs you would not get if you had 3/8ths Drop Outs. I don't know how many Companies actually browse this Forum & i know Flatland is a smaller community so the possibility is higher that they are! So if any of you company Reps or Owners are looking at this Thread.. PAY ATTENTION!! We the Riders would like Frames with 14mm Drop Outs giving us more options when it comes to Rear Hubs & obviously the benefits of stronger Hub Axles!!

Offline locky

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2013, 02:48:33 AM »
I havnt had any problems with flex or my hub, had it for 3 years flawless.
I do pull it open once a year and grease it up nice and get the gunk out...

The thing getting me with frames is just the overall look.. these streetflat "ällround" frames look so awkard.
frames all used to have some unique concept with tubes, now its getting all same same with a slight geo change. what happened to innovation.

the small companys are doing good things. but these big guys are making sh*t

Phatman

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2013, 03:20:03 AM »
I'm conflicted about the whole Frame design thing. Whilst i have ridden Frames with Bent Tubes for "Better Clearance" I honestly don't mind the standard BMX Diamond Frames. The have WAY Lower Top Tubes than any Street/All Round Frame has so even the standard Diamond looking Frames are still very much Flatland orientated! I do miss the days of funky looking Frames! However when the Bent Down Tube & possibly some with Bent Top Tubes too those all had the same geometry with minor tweaks also, so saying the Frames nowadays are all the same with minor Geo tweaks well it was that way before the Straight Tube revolution ravaged Flatland! I know BMX is trying to integrate into the normal BMX world, but i actually don't want it too! Flatland was always different & always way more fun, which is what drew me in! So many people take BMX way to seriously & i know there are Flatlanders who really work hard & push not only their limits but the limits of the sport, but i honestly believe the shape of the Tubing does NOT matter.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 03:21:36 AM by Topsey »

Offline locky

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2013, 03:31:02 AM »
Agree. I liked its original creative look in all aspects or riding and design. Some guys are keeping it real. It just seems a easy route to straight tube these days.
I dont mind the low slung diamond frames like the footjam and dubs frame and such.
But the new WTP and the orbea thing. Not sigging these companies trying to get on the market.
 
There makeing a basic frame to get sales it feels.

Time will tell if they show some real support.

Phatman

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2013, 03:36:34 AM »
I am really posting up in this thread haha, BUT.. I have more to say....


One thing that annoys me about the current offerings of Flatland Frames. They are so bog standard its ridiculous! If you look at Frames in the BMX Street world you see so much technology going into them!


Offset Butted Head Tubes, Longer Head Tubes (No need for a sh*t ton of spacers!)
Hydroformed Tubing allowing for Integrated Gussets
Removable Mounts Integrated into the Tubing that are TOTALLY invisible when the Mounts aren't installed Investment Cast Seat Clamps, Seat & Chain Stay Bridges, Hollow Drop Outs, Micro Hollow Wishbones
Spiral Fluted Tubing, Tapered Tubing, Multi Butted Tubing, Uber Super Heat Treated Tubing
Integrated Chain Tensioners that pass through the inside of the Hollow Drop Out
I know this is purely aesthetics but if you saw a sexy Translucent Painted Frame or some of the mental ED colours (Like on the Jungle Rider Frames) Metallics, I've seen a couple of Frames with like Glitter/Metal Flake too! Different styles of Raw finishes! Gloss, Flat, Phosphate!


I know some of these options would push up the price of Frames but honestly Street Frames are quite pricey now & i know Flatland Frames are catching up anyways, so i would love to see more Technology, R&D & as some people have mentioned something unique, bring something new to the Frame Game!

Offline locky

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2013, 03:53:10 AM »
Hmmmm.
I like my headtube allowing for spacers. Ive changed mine 3 times this year. Alows you to experiment and find thAt precise comfortable spot.
I think frame work is grass roots. Which i like.
That some of this tech side can be to hard to manufacture. And the price is effected. Id think guys like the new reklamation would like to keep there products affordable. To keep them producing. Eventually they hope to impliment more r and d.


If the big companies took there hand out of cookie jar. The grassroots would get some more sales and get more innovative.

The new khe rotor system seems pretty solid.

I read something a little while ago about the whole heat treat butted tubeing being a bit of a con.
Not sure if this is true.

But seems alot of the tech talk about the welds of a frame can be pure sales pitch.
The things they speak of are getting done but weather it enhances a frame strength im not sure.
But it helps to justify a high price.

Offline Bri-jon

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Re: The Totally Serious Flatland Frame Discussion!
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2013, 03:57:04 AM »
"Integrated Chain Tensioners that pass through the inside of the Hollow Drop Out"

They will die out soon. Too many axles are being damaged. Not so bad on street hub as they are female mainly but for us who take our freecoasters apart to regrease we cant take them off. Watch out for that on your new frame
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