Author Topic: Prepare for controversy  (Read 26794 times)

Offline kchez

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2013, 04:01:48 PM »
I think you should have to submit your runs to judges prior to the beginning of the contest. They should then calculate a starting point value based on your skills, and put you in a class. This way if you hit everything you know where you should place and what kind of things you need to learn to be competitive. Quite like gymnastics does. Thats always been the problem with flat comps...its so vague.

Was thinking the same theory but have a long, open session or jam that's monitored by the judges and mandatory to ride in to seed everyone. Could be another element to add to the contest format.

Offline black aspirin

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2013, 04:18:10 PM »
This guy gets away with it because ultimately a veterans class is unnecessary. Folks should ride in the class appropriate to their skill level, regardless of age. The case against this dude would be way more legit if he showed up in beginner, intermediate, or a special "old school" class, but since his age probably qualifies for vet, no one can argue with him for entering it (and age seems to be the only qualification).


"Veteran: Riders are over age 30 and want to still compete, but maybe don’t fit the Novice or Expert class."

http://www.global-flat.com/events/730/Canada/CFO_s_Flatland_Unlimited_8

Everyone else seems to understand what the class is about.  Todd Carter isn't entering Vet, nor are a ton of other guys I can name who are over 30, because they're either expert or pro-level riders.

Perhaps the Vet class is unnecessary.  If the only qualification for it were age, then it truly would be redundant and obsolete.  But if you can do even 1/4 of the stuff in that video?  You're an expert, and a damn good one.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:22:42 PM by black aspirin »

Offline LennonStephens

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2013, 04:26:06 PM »
no joke. Can you think of another way to justify keeping a rider from competing in a class that they are obviously over qualified for? If the rider in question here had submited a run that matched the class he entered we wouldnt be having this conversation. Its easy to say that this kind of format would take away from creativity, but all you have to do is allow for it when you project a riders score. Being that creativity is so important to the sport you would give it more weight. The only people that could be opposed to it would be the ones who want to enter a class below there skill to take home a trophy instead of trying to progress to be competitive. What are your thoughts pralex? Should he have been allowed to compete in vet? If not, how would you keep him out of the vet class?

Offline Mark McGrade

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2013, 04:48:49 PM »
The word Vet class should be removed to what it really is, an intermediate class. Age is irrelevant IMO.

Offline Ultraman Zoffy

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2013, 05:18:16 PM »
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate? The only other logical reason is that older riders feel either embarrassed or awkward riding against "younger" riders, and I'm trying to say they shouldn't. What does age have to do with anything in a flat comp?
Really, what I think you're not saying is that the vet class is for riders over 30 who still want a chance at winning something, and if that's the case, they'd be competing for the wrong reasons and under rigged circumstances (i.e. riding in an age bracket to narrow the field for a shot at winning).

Offline black aspirin

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2013, 05:32:33 PM »
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate?

There is no intermediate class.  If they created one and dropped the Vet class, I would be all for it.  But Vet class is not just for 'older riders'.  It's older riders that are better than novices, and not as good as experts.  I agree that age is irrelevant; I just don't fit in any other class.  If worse came to worse, and they canned Vet and kept only novice and expert, I would still move UP instead of down...even if it meant last place.

And it's not about me...I'll probably hit one comp in all of 2013, anyway.  I just can't believe this hasn't been addressed already.  I know for a fact that it was discussed during practice by some of my fellow Vets at JoMoPro ('Dude, who's the ringer? WTF?'), but also by some of the judges who agreed with our assessment.  By then, it was too late (I heard the latter after the contest was over). 

Offline Ultraman Zoffy

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2013, 05:49:26 PM »
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate?

There is no intermediate class. 

If that's the case, then yeah, I totally agree with you that this guy is officially sandbagging. I wasn't sure if intermediate was available to you guys or not, but this dude definitely doesn't belong in it.

Offline D

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2013, 06:40:40 PM »
Until we can decide as a group what exactly constitutes beginner, novice, intermediate, expert, master, veteran, and/or pro, this argument will never be resolved.  Racing FORCES people to level up after you've won a certain number of races to eliminate people sticking around and getting easy wins weekend after weekend.  I think the AFA used to as well.  I saw Hoffman's people make someone sign up for the next higher class if they saw someone riding really well in practice and thought that they weren't beginner (controversial, but more fair to the younger and beginner level guys for sure)  I would suggest the same thing for flatland, but unless there's a sanctioning body that can stick around for more than a year to enforce the rules (which people usually end up hating either way anyway) again nothing will stick and the same problems will remain. 

Offline Ultraman Zoffy

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 06:48:44 PM »
Ultimately, the really real bottom line is to just practice more and level up if you know who your competition is and really want to beat them. I ended up competing against some serious killers in Japan bitd, but it just made me want to ride more and learn new stuff.

Offline johnu773

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2013, 07:08:21 PM »
Looking at the whole picture, it's easy to say "he doesn't belong", but rules are rules and he fits every rule for "VET"  That said, earning the respect of my fellow riders is much more important to me than a prize or trophy.  It's obvious here, some riders don't respect him for entering a lower class than his skill level, but that's something he'll have to deal with (not us).

My 1st contest in almost 20 yrs was Jomopro 2012.  I prepared well from what I was told to do by my fellow local riders who have entered before, however when we got there, the judges told us they want difficulty VS. consistancy.  That blew my runs! I could have easily backed out after learning that but I stayed and unfortunately took last place.  I was ok though because I knew I earned some respect for at least giving it my best, instead of backing out.

Be honest with yourself, and you will have no regrets.  I doubt I'll ever make top 3, however riding against guys like Steve in my class will only make me hungrier.
RIDE ON!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 11:06:47 PM by johnu773 »

Offline JUGGARNAUT

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2013, 07:23:37 PM »
Looking at the whole picture, it's easy to say "he doesn't belong", but rules are rules and he fits every rule for "VET"  That said, earning the respect of my fellow riders is much more important to me than a prize or trophy.  It's obvious here, some riders don't respect him for entering a lower class than his skill level and that's something he'll have to deal with (not us).

My 1st contest in almost 20 yrs was Jomopro 2012.  I prepared well from what I was told to do by my fellow local riders who have entered before, however when we got there, the judges told us they want difficulty VS. consistancy.  That blew my runs! I could have easily backed out after learning that but I stayed and unfortunately took last place.  I was ok though because I knew I earned some respect for at least giving it my best, instead of backing out.

Be honest with yourself, and you will have no regrets.  I doubt I'll ever make top 3, however riding against guys like Steve in my class will only make me hungrier.
RIDE ON!
THIS!!

Offline Stubbleduck43

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 12:46:44 AM »
I wonder how Kevin Jones would do in the "vet" class?  Vet = veteran right?

Offline JoeKickass

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 01:36:54 AM »
I wouldn't lose sleep over one person's insecurity manifested in the need to win like he's some sort of small child. A lot of this is likely rooted in penis size. Be compassionate. Can someone post a video of his run please and thank you?
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Offline Flatland Fanatic

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 01:38:37 AM »
I wonder how Kevin Jones would do in the "vet" class?  Vet = veteran right?

Kevin would have to compete Pro.  The Veteran Class is for guys over 30 who are not novice but not expert.  They are intermediates.  Kevin isn't an intermediate.

Offline JoeKickass

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Re: Prepare for controversy
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 01:40:37 AM »
Speaking of controversy, did anyone else think that Sam won? Dub is inf*ckingsane, but Sam is inf*ckingsane +1.
"You can ride brakeless with brakes." -- Scott O