Author Topic: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"  (Read 143621 times)

Phatman

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #195 on: November 15, 2013, 08:14:41 PM »
Chad, I know some people might get a little annoyed because the Intrikat is like a little nod to Frames of old. I spoke with Ryan about getting a Custom, Custom & he said because of how many Frames S&M are putting out daily they just don't have the time to make a full one off custom. Do You think S&M would make a more "Flatland Orientated" Frame? NOT that the Intrikat isn't but it is not for everyone. I mean you could ride Street on the Intrikat it's not too far off some of the Street Frames S&M/Fit offer! I'm thinking something along the lines of...

74 Degree Head Tube Angle
19" - 19.5" - 19.75" - 20" Top Tube Lengths
72/73 Degree Seat Tube Angle (I really cannot recommend steeper Seat Tube Angles enough!!)
7" Stand Over Height (Something a lot lower than the Intrikat, I know A LOT of people wanted this)
11.8" Bottom Bracket Height
12.7" to 13.25" Chain Stay Length (Basically a little shorter BUT with 1/2" of adjustment!)
Longer Head Tube, 120mm/125mm (Longer Head Tube = Less Spacers = Much Better Look!)
I personally wouldn't mind if the Frame had no gussets, BUT.. A LOT of people would want Top & Down Tube Plate Gussets for i guess "Security" I mean if the Tubing is good & the Weld is consistent & quality, they aren't needed! Especially for Flatland!
As for Brakes, Removables do my f*cking head in!! WELDED Mounts & Guides with Removable Gyro Tabs or BRAKELESS for Mount options. Do it properly PLEASE <3 <3 <3
Integrated Clamp, Fit are offering Investment Cast Clamps now so hook it up on this Frame!
Externally Butted Seat Tube - Saves minimal weight but adds a little flair to the aesthetics.
Mid Bottom Bracket Shell
Overlapped Seat Stays/Seat Tube Junction
5/8ths O.D Curved Seat Stay Bridge.
BRING BACK THE WISHBONE FOR THE CHAIN STAYS!!
Larger Drop Outs, Not like OG Sabbath sized. But sized enough to fit 1.75" Pegs sensibly & like i said up ^ thar ^ 1/2" of adjustment!! MUST BE 14mm! Anyone can run adapters to use a 3/8ths Hub, but a 14mm Hub wont fit in 3/8ths Drop Outs as we all know haha  :P
1-1/4" O.D Top Tube - I'd personally go with something slightly thicker to help with strength.
1-1/4" O.D Down Tube- Again i'd go with something slightly thicker for strength!
3/4" Tapered to 1/2" Seat Stays, Bullet Tipped like the Intrikat or maybe even Flattened out?!
3/4" Tapered to 5/8" Chain Stays, Again like above depending on what S&M is willing to do.
MUST OFFER GLOSS CLEAR COAT OPTION!!! & the Trans Colours are Prime too!

What do you think Chad? Also what do all you guys reading this think of my suggested Frame?

 :beer:

Offline Thomas D

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #196 on: November 15, 2013, 11:00:46 PM »
The length of a chain increases when it's used. It can easily get half a link longer. This means chain adjustement troubles can be sometimes solved by switching to a newer (or older chain).

It appears that some chains fits well to some frames and other doesn't. It's not the frame that has to fit to all the chains !


Offline cj

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #197 on: November 18, 2013, 12:42:23 AM »
Chad, I know some people might get a little annoyed because the Intrikat is like a little nod to Frames of old. I spoke with Ryan about getting a Custom, Custom & he said because of how many Frames S&M are putting out daily they just don't have the time to make a full one off custom. Do You think S&M would make a more "Flatland Orientated" Frame? NOT that the Intrikat isn't but it is not for everyone. I mean you could ride Street on the Intrikat it's not too far off some of the Street Frames S&M/Fit offer! I'm thinking something along the lines of...

74 Degree Head Tube Angle
19" - 19.5" - 19.75" - 20" Top Tube Lengths
72/73 Degree Seat Tube Angle (I really cannot recommend steeper Seat Tube Angles enough!!)
7" Stand Over Height (Something a lot lower than the Intrikat, I know A LOT of people wanted this)
11.8" Bottom Bracket Height
12.7" to 13.25" Chain Stay Length (Basically a little shorter BUT with 1/2" of adjustment!)
Longer Head Tube, 120mm/125mm (Longer Head Tube = Less Spacers = Much Better Look!)
I personally wouldn't mind if the Frame had no gussets, BUT.. A LOT of people would want Top & Down Tube Plate Gussets for i guess "Security" I mean if the Tubing is good & the Weld is consistent & quality, they aren't needed! Especially for Flatland!
As for Brakes, Removables do my f*cking head in!! WELDED Mounts & Guides with Removable Gyro Tabs or BRAKELESS for Mount options. Do it properly PLEASE <3 <3 <3
Integrated Clamp, Fit are offering Investment Cast Clamps now so hook it up on this Frame!
Externally Butted Seat Tube - Saves minimal weight but adds a little flair to the aesthetics.
Mid Bottom Bracket Shell
Overlapped Seat Stays/Seat Tube Junction
5/8ths O.D Curved Seat Stay Bridge.
BRING BACK THE WISHBONE FOR THE CHAIN STAYS!!
Larger Drop Outs, Not like OG Sabbath sized. But sized enough to fit 1.75" Pegs sensibly & like i said up ^ thar ^ 1/2" of adjustment!! MUST BE 14mm! Anyone can run adapters to use a 3/8ths Hub, but a 14mm Hub wont fit in 3/8ths Drop Outs as we all know haha  :P
1-1/4" O.D Top Tube - I'd personally go with something slightly thicker to help with strength.
1-1/4" O.D Down Tube- Again i'd go with something slightly thicker for strength!
3/4" Tapered to 1/2" Seat Stays, Bullet Tipped like the Intrikat or maybe even Flattened out?!
3/4" Tapered to 5/8" Chain Stays, Again like above depending on what S&M is willing to do.
MUST OFFER GLOSS CLEAR COAT OPTION!!! & the Trans Colours are Prime too!

What do you think Chad? Also what do all you guys reading this think of my suggested Frame?

 :beer:



Hey Jon, your suggested frame specs would make a great Topsey signature model! I like how you've put some thought into it.

Yeah, a nod to the frames of old is apparent but, the overall classic BMX look is the result of tested and proven geometry. It’s not to mimic an old school or street bike. S&M has over 25 years experience of building frames so they’ve gathered a vast amount of knowledge regarding bicycle geometry and machining. They’re on the cutting edge of BMX technology, constantly testing, while raising the bar. Maybe you’re referring to the throwback graphics from 2012? They were the 25th Anniversary Limited Edition (25 chrome, 25 white) frames that we did as a celebration for the occasion, but were not stuck in the past or anything like that. If you look at the details, you’ll see that this frame is very much modern flatland oriented. I ride flat most of the time, but it’s comforting to know this frame will handle street on the way to different flat spots. The S&M Intrikat offers features not found on any other flatland frame. For example, I’m really stoked on the chainstays, how they taper and have Bullet-Tip ends rather than welded caps. It provides a shoe-friendly surface when your foot is on the rear pegs, plus it looks super-clean and best of all it’s really strong. Also, we use Butted True Temper Super Therm tubing. I’m proud to say that all these frames are 100% made in the USA, right here in Southern California where we’re able to oversee the entire process from choosing materials to quality-checking every item before it leaves the building.




Chainstay detail


Dax Wolford


Portland Joe


Dirty Dirty (with chain tensioners)


SIN


Mewefan (with chain tensioners)


Outdrstr  (accepts Profile cassette hub, I believe the widest on the market)



The Sabbath inspired gusset under the down tube serves multiple purposes: to provide more support, less flex on the headtube and also to create extra space around the front tire for various front wheel tricks.




...and a few examples of complete riders:

James White


Peter Olsen


Tim Knoll (photo found here: http://digbmx.mpora.com/news/set-ups-tim-knoll/ )


Aleksi Ritsla


Martti Kuoppa


You can order a custom, the shop is definitely busy and there’s a waiting list, but it can be done. Maybe Ryan meant it couldn’t get done at that time. Here’s a link to the custom order page:

http://store.sandmbikes.com/Custom-Frames_c_48.html

For complete specs on the stock frame:

http://store.sandmbikes.com/INTRIKAT-FRAME_p_741.html#.UokH8a79Uek

Thanks again,
 :beer:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 12:53:53 AM by cj »
instagram.com/intrikatbmx


Offline cj

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #198 on: November 18, 2013, 12:43:07 AM »
The length of a chain increases when it's used. It can easily get half a link longer. This means chain adjustement troubles can be sometimes solved by switching to a newer (or older chain).

It appears that some chains fits well to some frames and other doesn't. It's not the frame that has to fit to all the chains !


good point, thanks!
instagram.com/intrikatbmx


Offline leeroy002

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #199 on: November 18, 2013, 07:38:37 AM »



19.5 with 36mm enduro stem

Offline Revig

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #200 on: November 18, 2013, 10:33:54 AM »
Do You think S&M would make a more "Flatland Orientated" Frame?
I'm thinking something along the lines of...
...

Mid Bottom Bracket Shell
...

Also what do all you guys reading this think of my suggested Frame?


Really bad idea

Sometimes the screw that hold the sprocket on the crank arm is loosing, then sometimes, you have to retighten it in order to not lose the screw more. That thing happens in a regular basic with a bike that is used a lot or not and that's really not a big deal ; just tight the screw on the sprocket, it that takes 3 minutes maximum and it's ready for a other round,

Parts makers, and specially crank makers, came few years ago with a new standard regarding that screw on the crank arm: in order to allow the use of micro gearing sprockets (less that 22 teeth), there is that new position for a screw on the crank arm, closer to the axle crank.

Have you ever experimented to retight the sprocket screw on a micro gearing crank that is on a frame with mid BB?

I can warm you that you will need more tools than one allen key and really more time than 3 minutes to do it!


On a side note, I don't understand how some current frame makers can propose flatland frames with mid bb. Not every flatland rider can buy a spine drive sprocket and a profile crank (or other with 48 spline axle) when they buy a new frame and want to keep riding with micro gearing. Lack of testing, lack of flatland market's consideration, lack of means and willingness to do these steps properly are some reasons I guess.
 

Offline D

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #201 on: November 18, 2013, 04:14:29 PM »
Chad, I always though it would be bad for the axles/dropouts if the peg hangs 1/2 off the back, but maybe that's just a thought held over from the days when our paper thin GT drops would bend when our Tioga Roll On pegs bent a non heat treated axle.  A lot has changed since those days.   


I'm not sure if it's something we'd need to still worry about still, but those habits die hard I guess.  I know you haven't run pegs in years but what do you think?   


I'm a bit of an anomaly these days since I'm one of the few that still runs 1.75" diameter pegs and I like to set the back end up at around 13.25-13.5, or as close as I can get it to that.  Since the pegs are so wide, they'll hang off the Intrikat drops pretty much no matter what. Right now on my bike they are nearly halfway off (I run a 30-11 with a half link at the moment - if my math is right that allows for the longest setup on the bike)  So far there hasn't been in any performance issues (I don't ride all that much anymore though) but aesthetically they look better the more flush they are, but more than anything I'd hate to shorten the life of the frame or my axles because of a janky setup, the frame is so nice it would be like putting my foot through a Picasso. 


Anyway, you know how particular us flatlanders are.  :)   


Yeah, things have changed since the flimsy hi-tensile steel drop-out days, for sure. S&M uses chro-moly drop-outs, plus they're thicker than back then. I doubt they will bend...but, I do hear you regarding aesthetics, there should be a balance. Modern frame drop-outs are similar to fork drop-outs, it's not necessary to have the peg completely touching, but halfway hanging off isn't cool either.

I understand and respect how particular flatlanders are, I'm one too, it's almost a required attribute. I enjoy the challenge of progressing a frame to it's full potential plus trying to make it universally fitting for any rider, while staying within budget and offering it for a reasonable price.

I appreciate your experience and feedback, thanks D! Thanks for the kind words regarding the frame also!

And thanks to you, Moeller and McKinney for producing such an amazing bike!  I've said it before, I've been riding since 1988,  I've ridden dozens of bikes from just about every manufacturer, and this is by far and away the nicest and best made flatland frame I've ever seen or ridden.  Just like everyone, I've got my quirks about things, but that doesn't change how great the bike is.  I'd recommend it 100%.   

Phatman

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #202 on: November 18, 2013, 05:55:02 PM »
Some NICE Bikes on this page!


Chad, in respect to your reply to what i said.. Yes i do want a Topsey Signature Frame haha. If i am going to drop $600 to $800 on a Custom I really do want to be able to choose EVERY last single detail, not have it based of another Frame that is someone else's design you know? As i said, I spoke with Ryan & he said that doing a Frame like that (MY Design, not based off an Intrikat) Isn't possible due to the amount of Frames S&M are putting out (Including Fit Frames too!) I really do like the Intrikat, hell i nearly bought one! & if you remember we had a LONG P.M Back n Forth about getting me a Custom done! But i have gained A LOT of knowledge over the past few years & i know EXACTLY what i want & i am not prepared to settle for anything less! (ANAL Flatlander Strikes Again!) No Disrespect meant AT ALL! Just want to do my own thing you know?

Offline MaineOnePlus3

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #203 on: November 20, 2013, 06:15:50 PM »






Instead of selling it, and hating myself for it, I rebuilt it... similar, but even better than the first time.

Offline Flatism®

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #204 on: November 20, 2013, 06:25:58 PM »
Indeed!
Flat-ism

Offline HighLander

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #205 on: November 20, 2013, 06:49:27 PM »
I sold mine and hope they improve on the dropout issue.  And yes i do regret it. Great frame!!
So close to perfection.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:53:08 PM by HighLander »
One Last Ride.

Offline MaineOnePlus3

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Offline MaineOnePlus3

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #207 on: November 20, 2013, 08:11:09 PM »
I sold mine and hope they improve on the dropout issue.  And yes i do regret it. Great frame!!
So close to perfection.

I had some issues the first time I set up the bike, but this time I changed the sprocket size by a tooth and the setup was a breeze! (info in this thread helped) Chains locked in tight, with no issues!

Offline leeroy002

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #208 on: November 20, 2013, 08:51:12 PM »
So what sizes worked for you Maine?????

Offline HighLander

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Re: S&M Intrikat Signature Frame 20.5", 20", 19.5" and 19"
« Reply #209 on: November 20, 2013, 09:21:24 PM »
I sold mine and hope they improve on the dropout issue.  And yes i do regret it. Great frame!!
So close to perfection.

I had some issues the first time I set up the bike, but this time I changed the sprocket size by a tooth and the setup was a breeze! (info in this thread helped) Chains locked in tight, with no issues!

Yeah,i followed the suggestions for 24-9 and yeah it was fine but i really wanted 25-9 and the peg being not fully on dropout fustrated me. A little more adjustment n a tensioner i want for the perfect built. AGAIN,its an Awesome frame and a simple fix.
One Last Ride.