one year of half heartedly trying them i finally got the feel for them over xmas in my workshop with plywood flooring (slightly slopped) did them for about 3 weeks and now i can't get them and it is like having to start all over again trying them on tarmac
The other thing is to sort of lock in between the seat, peg and bars like you, the bars/forks and the frame are a single triangular unit. Not like you're pressing hard against all three points, but enough that it doesn't wobble everywhere.
Thanks for the pointers. It just gets so frustrating sometimes. Even more so is if you had them before and can't seem to get them back. I look back and wish I never stopped riding.
This just about sums up my feelings on it. Also, for what its worth, I learned backwards first by just coasting a squeaker.