Author Topic: 48h vs. 36h  (Read 9586 times)

Offline B-random Fantom

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1652
48h vs. 36h
« on: January 05, 2012, 11:10:15 PM »
With 48h hubs now almost entirely removed from the market it seems like the 36h wheels have won the day. What I am curious about though is just how much stronger a 48 wheel is than a 36h one--specifically in terms of side to side flex. I was running 36h wheels on my brake bike and I did notice that I had to widen the distance between the rim and the brake shoe more so than I used to or else my brake would rub during tricks that were angled hard to the side. Back in the day when I rode 48's I seem to remember being able to run my brakes much closer to the rim. Maybe I'm just fatter and so my extra weight is causing more flex but I am very curious to learn about the actual mathematical numbers with respect to the strength difference. If any of you know the math or a site that breaks it down please post the details here.
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Offline pretzelgape

  • Funky Chicken
  • ****
  • Posts: 50
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 11:14:50 PM »
Look for a book called the bicycle wheel by jobst brandt , there is no more advanced book in regards to the exact maths and science of the bike wheel in every variation imaginable .
<Account infiltrated by Blindingsun. all your base are belong to us>

Offline out~riding

  • Global Team
  • GF Inhabitant
  • ******
  • Posts: 3659
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 03:19:48 PM »
It doesn't matter how strong they make rims now, 48 spokes will always be stronger than 36 and the weight is noticeable. You can still get 48 freecoasters but finding front hubs is almost impossible now. (will the return to 48 be the next trend,,,?)

Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 09:04:55 PM »
Some bike company dudes I know are talking about 48h again...They have been advised not to, but I can at least say they were thinking about it. duh duh duuuuuuhhh!
 

Offline B-random Fantom

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1652
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 09:18:05 PM »
So I looked through that book and there is some good info in there but it didn't exactly give me the numbers I was looking for. I currently run 36 hole wheels with 13 gauge spokes, I wanted to know how close in strength/stiffness these are to a 48 hole wheel with 14 gauge spokes. The author says that more spokes will always make a stronger/stiffer wheel but, this is obvious. What I really want to know is how the gauge thickness impacts strength/stiffness. I'm guessing that even with a smaller gauge spoke, the 48 hole wheel will be stiffer than my 36 hole wheels with slightly thicker spokes.
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Offline B-random Fantom

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1652
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 09:35:23 PM »
So I found this on a wheel builder website:

U.S./British 13 gauge is 2.3 mm
U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm

The mm is the thickness of the spoke so a simple multiplication by the number of spokes might be enlightening. So: 48 spokes X 2 (mm) = 96 (this is the amount of material in millimeters of thickness for the wheel); whereas, 36 spokes X 2.3 (mm) = 82.8 (material in millimeter thickness for the wheel). So there is 13.2 (mm thickness) more in a 48 hole 14 gauge spoke wheel than there is in a 36 hole 13 gauge spoke wheel. This, to me, sounds pretty significant. Also, I imagine you would have to consider that not only is there more material supporting your wheel but it is fastened together by more spoke nipples and is more evenly distributed across the rim which should translate to less stress across greater points of contact.

What do you guys think about this analysis?
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Offline out~riding

  • Global Team
  • GF Inhabitant
  • ******
  • Posts: 3659
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 01:04:44 AM »
without getting into the thickness of the spokes,
48 spokes does distribute the force out more and you can get a truer wheel as you can fine tune it more.
The wheel will be more stiffer and in flatland you will notice the difference as your leaning the wheel on it's side.

I guess for street riding you don't notice this as much as flex doesn't really matter since your using monster tires. That's probably why brands started to use only 36 spokes.

Offline 2flat2furious

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 4210
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 08:02:05 PM »

The wheel will be more stiffer and in flatland you will notice the difference as your leaning the wheel on it's side.


Sigh, we've been over this.

I ran 48s for years and made the switch to 36 hole with better rims. I was running peregrine super pros 48 and they were demonstrably sh*ttier than anything I ran after (odyssey hazard lites, demolition rims, alienation) 36s. The extra spokes didn't do anything for me.

Offline out~riding

  • Global Team
  • GF Inhabitant
  • ******
  • Posts: 3659
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2012, 08:20:06 PM »
Your comparing different rims, I'm talking about the exact same make/model in 36 and 48.


Offline ross636

  • Backpacker
  • ******
  • Posts: 221
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 09:01:14 PM »
i too ran hp 48's for over 15 years and i would say they are the same as most 36's. but now i run g-sport ribcage  48's which is the stiffest wheel i have ever rode on. plus i ride with at least 15 street riders a few times a week, all but two run 36's and all but two have messed up wheels. and also i run my brakes pads real close to the rim something i could not do with hp's and something none of the street guys can do with 36's.. but still like 36's they are a 100 times better than 20 years ago.     

Offline shred-squad

  • Funky Chicken
  • ****
  • Posts: 70
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2012, 09:03:42 PM »
idk as long as they never ever try to bring back z rims

Offline The Brown Sound

  • GF Inhabitant
  • ********
  • Posts: 1501
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2012, 11:20:06 PM »
Yea the 48h phenomenon is something I've been keeping my eye on as well. I hope I never have to ride a 36 again. I'm way to heavy to be f'ing w that sheise. The only thing I worry is if my Freecoaster ever dies. I'm fortunate enough to have a spare G Sport 48 Hub. Hopefully these last a while too. I don't know about you but Im scooping up on what I can while it's still avail.
I'm like the brown LL Cool J.

Offline ross636

  • Backpacker
  • ******
  • Posts: 221
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 01:28:47 AM »
idk as long as they never ever try to bring back z rims
so true, but back then?? nah they still suck lol

Offline Flatland-Cris

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 677
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 02:00:20 AM »
ugh 48's still around!? 28's for the win ;)
Keep it flat!

Offline Bri-jon

  • Cliffhanger
  • *******
  • Posts: 517
Re: 48h vs. 36h
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 09:32:56 PM »
if Nankai did 48 bamboos and I could find a 48 front g-sport I would be over the moon. But no luck yet >:(
"sh*t + talkers = stalkers lol"

Sold my bike to emigrate to Canada and still waiting for a Visa to work. Worst mistake EVER!