Author Topic: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece  (Read 17036 times)

Offline B-random Fantom

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Hey Scott,

I understand that you have a different opinion on things than I do and that is fine by me but I just wanted to clarify a few of the things I said in response to how you took what I said.

Oh and Brandon F I totally disagree with you and I do not think you have the experience that warrants your opinion on battles. Last contest I saw you at was Burning Bike in who knows how long ago. Not that you have not been to a few contest since then my point is I dont think you have truly experienced what the Battle format offers and has done. As I stated previously I think there is a place for all of these formats and we should not limit ourself because of a few organizers lack of professionalism.

Fair enough. I mean, what you do with your contest is entirely up to you, and I've never been to a Voodoo contest so I can't really speak to what it in particular is like. From the videos I've seen it looks like a pretty fun time for most. You're right that I don't have any experience in terms of my being a contestant in a battle format but that is really just my point, and I don't need to have competed under that format to know why I wouldn't want to. If the issue is a diminishing pro turn out, I think it reasonable to ask whether battle formats are possibly part of the reason why. I really do think that battle formats put too much stock in consistency (at the cost of creativity and going big) because in order to win (besides having solid tricks) you need to be able to pull your combos several times against different people in order to win. I don't think anyone can really argue that such a format doesn't favor the rider with the most consistency. The more times you go up to battle the more consistent you need to be to make it to the next round. This certainly hurts the chances of someone like, for example, Cory Fester, who no doubt has amazing tricks and an extremely high level of riding but because his great tricks are so difficult, the odds of him hitting them over and over against multiple opponents is significantly diminished.

I think your statements about bike set ups are ridiculous. Let people do what they want be free to make your own way. If these guys want to ride street style bike that is not fake. Its what they want. Why limit Flatland and people to your ideals and ways of doing things. Why not just be happy for the guys and say “thats his flow and let him have it” I dont have a street set up and never will but I don’t think those guys are fake.
No one I ride with is desperate for praise or is acting like a breakdancer. But if thats what drives someone then so be it.

I want to be extremely clear about this. Anyone can ride any set up they want. I have no problems with anyone who chooses to ride more of a street style set up. The only issue I was trying to point out about such choices being 'fake' was in the context of people doing it only to try and look like street riders and to 'fit in'. That just appears 'fake' by definition: if you are a flatlander and you set your bike up to look like a street rider's (which you are not) to try to fit in then that's just faking it isn't it? There are however other reasons to ride those kinds of set-ups that don't entail fakeness or fronting by a flatland rider including: 1-actually riding a little street here and there and not wanting to have to have two different bikes to do it; 2-simple personal preference; 3-one's style of tricks wouldn't benefit from a more flat specific set up; 4-etc...

With respect to the acting like a breakdancer, that came to mind because I recently saw a web-vid where two groups of flatlanders were doing the whole taunting thing that breakdancers do for some kind of demonstration and it was a blatant rip from breakdancing. That said, who gives a crap. Again, they can do what they want. My point wasn't to tell people what they can or can't do but rather, that we simply don't have to try to fit in or copy other disciplines/sports/artforms,...that we can go our own way and do our own thing and that is just fine as it is. To me, this is actually a very positive message to put forward and I think you may have not seen it because you might have taken personal offense to my views since you've run battle formats in the past. I wasn't trying to tell anyone what they need to do, but instead, I was trying to tell them that they don't need to do certain things in order to be a flatland rider. 
 
Enough! I grow weary of your foolishness ninjas.

Offline 2flat2furious

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 06:34:48 AM »
Quote
I wasn't trying to tell anyone what they need to do, but instead, I was trying to tell them that they don't need to do certain things in order to be a flatland rider.
 

I had some reservations about some things that you said, but I think reading this I understand you core message and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, I do think you're pounding sand when it comes to even suggesting that people do things their own way and thinking for themselves, ie ditch the street set ups. People who are preoccupied with bike builds are never going to stray from their ridiculous inclinations no matter who tells them it's a waste of their time.

Consistency IS key for winning contests, but I also think having people battle ten times in a contest or whatever is absolutely ridiculous and one of the reasons I think the battle format is flawed. I think the battles have run their course and everything there was to gain from them we've either gotten or has already passed us by. No more flags. No more choice A or choice B. Just tally up some scores and pick a winner by comparison of who showed up that day and who rode the best.

I think the way the french dudes acted was way out of line, but I also think there is some seriously bad blood between the two guys that goes way further back than FISE (the details are unknown to me so nobody bother asking me like the 10+ people that asked me about the fight at FISE  :P ). It seemed to just be a perfect storm kind of thing and people are using it as a springboard for who should do what at a contest.

Anywho, battles should be done away with or thought out some more so that there aren't these absolutely ridiculous contentions to begin with. Unfortunately that's lost on many organizers, so it is what it is.

Offline thestraw

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 07:44:34 AM »
pop a wheelie

tubby

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 11:09:30 AM »
Honestly Brandon you don't need to justify the points of the post it was perfectly clear and makes sense . However to steal from Tj i think you are "pounding sand" trying to share ideas and discuss in any depth issues with many flatlanders full stop.

byke

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 01:50:40 PM »
I want to know which Alain was it?

Offline EZChris

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 01:56:40 PM »
Honestly Brandon you don't need to justify the points of the post it was perfectly clear and makes sense . However to steal from Tj i think you are "pounding sand" trying to share ideas and discuss in any depth issues with many flatlanders full stop.


yeh i mean if anything there are much more important things Brandon should be pounding.
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tubby

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 02:11:32 PM »
I want to know which Alain was it?

Alain massifbona

byke

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 02:56:09 PM »
I thought it was the other Alain (new school french rider).
However if it is ART magazine Alain, dont forget he is the brother to the owner of St.Martin ......

And they were all at one time part of the bmxicos group ...... And that group has always argued internally and had french princess hissy fits.

tubby

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 03:28:37 PM »
I thought it was the other Alain (new school french rider).
However if it is ART magazine Alain, dont forget he is the brother to the owner of St.Martin ......

And they were all at one time part of the bmxicos group ...... And that group has always argued internally and had french princess hissy fits.
Ah actually come to think of it i dont know for sure which alain .

?uest

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 04:01:34 PM »
I thought it was the other Alain (new school french rider).
However if it is ART magazine Alain, dont forget he is the brother to the owner of St.Martin ......

And they were all at one time part of the bmxicos group ...... And that group has always argued internally and had french princess hissy fits.

Ah actually come to think of it i dont know for sure which alain .





it was THIS Alain
now stfu you two :P




tubby

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 04:21:13 PM »
I think it was this alain.


byke

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 04:44:26 PM »
The "Alan Alan Alan" Marmot on the BBC!

Offline jmctigret

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 05:09:17 PM »
This is what happen at the FISE 2011.

Effraim
June 5, 2011
Well, the next morning is here, and i’m still pissed about the whole thing here at fise, I don’t read it anywhere else, so I guess its down to me.
The problem started actually as soon as I arrived, Welcome to France Effraim!
Asked to start judging, no pen, just a paper. First problem!
Whatever, I have quite good memory so… four riders in, it rained… so the contest stopped half way through Matthias’ qualifier, no touches half way through. JF Boulainne had a 3 touch run. Raphael touched a lot.
Hour later or so, we start again, and get through qualifiers.
Alain ask us for the top 8 riders, so we sit at edge of area, myself and Martin, and Manu.
We decide the top three, Viki, Matthias, and Alex, Manu’s scores were very different than mine and Martins. But thats fine, opinion is just that.
Alain goes away with the three papers, adds them together, and of course it didn’t match the meeting we just had. So the top three was Viki, Matthias and Jesse. It was really close between Alex and Jesse, so whatever not a huge deal. Alex was fourth.
The battle order comes out, and doesn’t make any sense,as an example Viki vs Jean Bulhon (1-8), but Alex vs Matthias (2-4), that can’t happen first round, otherwise no point in qualifying, Viki Gomez pointed out the errors, and asked for it to be changed.
We get to the contest yesterday, riders warming up, I am stood right next to Alex and Alain, they say a few words in french, and then very quickly they are pushing each other and kicking, trying to throw a punch, Martti and Viki step in and literally block the floor, Martti took Alex to the floor, Alex still try to get back up and continue, obviously very upset, Alain did much the same,, about 400 people saw this I guess, all of us in disbelief. There are huge problems in the French flatland scene, somebody needs to step in to stop this childish crap I don’t talk to him, etc etc,, its gone for years, and squash it. Either that or quit riding contests/prgnaising contests. I’ve never seen anything like it! If Martti and Viki were not there, these guys would be brawling in front of 400 plus crowd, good for flatland? No.
The ironic thing is, Martti and Viki would get called out first round at KOG everytime they went, and they never had a physical fight…
Ok. so ten mins or so, it calmed down, contest about to go down, with Marttis system, pick the rider you want to battle…. By this point, I don’t care and want to get out of his bullsh*t.
It rains… and continues……it gets rained out. Qualifying results stand…..
Me and Martti leave to get some food. We get called back to change the results.
The organiser (I don’t know his name) asks to see me and martin along with Manu to change the results (“to be fair”).
I could go on and on, i’m getting more pissed off talking about it, this “again” was not my contest, I didn’t get paid to judge, just expenses, I had no control over what happened to the sheets when they left my hands, pretty obvious surely?
So… somebody stand up in France, for the good of the sport, squash the bullsh*t, and get along! Most of us are adults, start acting like it!

byke

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 05:17:04 PM »
Could it have been that Manu (owner of st.martin?) gave Alex a score that was shall we say over rated in part since Alex is on the team ........ Alain changed it so that Alex gets 4th ...... And to add insult to injury puts Alex next to Matthias, knowing that Alex will get creamed? then it all went Argy Bargy?

Offline EZChris

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Re: My reply to Scott O'Brien from the flatmatters editorial piece
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 06:11:06 PM »


Hey you can call me Al for short!
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