Disclaimer:  This thread is not being started for the purposes of sh*t talking, just healthy discussion.  We are all guilty of biting.

The other day I was reading this article http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/editorials/id.1621/title.stop-biting-how-many-rappers-can-ruin-a-good-thing-by-one?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cd62618dab368af,0 about hip-hop artists biting each other.  The article highlights how in the past, biting was just not allowed.  If you were a biter, you were criticized harshly by your hip-hop peers, considered a joke, lame, a sucka, etc.  Then, it talks about how currently, hip-hop is all about biting.  Artists biting ideas, lyrics, artwork, etc.  Then the article closes with the quote " let it become Hip-Hop rule numero uno: no biting is allowed."

This got me thinking about flatland over the last 11 years and beyond.  I've only been riding 11 years, so my frame of reference is not as great as other riders who have seen the evolution of flatland over the last 25 years or more.  Their opinions are welcomed on the subject...

As of the last 4-5 years, biting has become a common practice in flatland.  So common, that it is the norm.  I don't even think that new riders even use the term biting anymore.  Biting is such the norm that we forgot what originality is, and when we're reminded of it, we almost sh*t our pants from excitement (you know the riders & their online videos).

So, for anyone who's been paying attention to flatland for more than the last 4 years (the Matthias era if you will), what is your opinion on the evolution of biting?

When I started riding in '99, originality seemed to be everything.  There were riders worshiping Paul Osicka, Andrew Faris, Martti Kuoppa, and later Jeff Desroche.  Originality was idolized.  So much, that new flatlander riders were beginning to copy these riders.  However, at this time in flatland, biters were NOT welcomed.  They were the jokes of other riders.  "Did you see ________?  He just did all of Pauls tricks, had double fronts, wore the white wristbands, and did flapjacks!  NOT COOL!"

This mentality seemed to stick for about 4-5 more years from what I can tell.  Biters were being ridiculed by other riders (including top pros) at contests.  Biters were being penalized in contests for biting. 

There were several riders who emerged during that time who became infamous for biting other riders' original tricks.  These were incredibly talented riders who were doing incredibly hard tricks, but they weren't original.  They were criticized for their work, and looked down on, even though they did hard tricks.  Much harder tricks than 90% of flatlanders are doing today.

So, in the late 90's and early 2000's, original tricks were in, and biting was out.  Way out.

Ok, so now we're at about 2004-2005ish.  Biting becomes more rampant.  It spreads like wildfire across the flatland community.  We don't even recognize it as biting anymore.  It's continued to spread up to today.  Look around, we're all riding the same, wearing the same clothes, riding the same bikes.

So what happened?  What caused this transformation?  Why/How/or When did originality go from being the most important thing, to being the least important thing? 

We can see it clear as day.  It happened.  There's no need to get in arms about it and start to defend yourself and console yourself by saying "No, thats not me!  I'm not a biter."  That is not what this post is about.  We all bite something.  The question is WHY the change? 

When/How did biting become OK and why?  I have a few theories/ideas, but what are yours?

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Shaquille O'Neal biting Special ED!!!
"I'm your idol, the highest title, numero uno"

and don't ask why I was listening to Shaq rapping in the 1st place, I think it was on Radio Disney.  Blame my kids...


Anyway, like Ciaran said, if you bite, take the ball and run with it...take that sh*t to the next level!!!

Its interesting you made the comparason to music - i've seen a few genres of music go from absolute awesome forward thinking original style to mindlessly cookie cutter bandwagon thing - most noticably is drum and bass in the early 2000's and dubstep in around 2007/8 to now. Garage before that, hardcore before that, and so on and so forth.

Thing is with music the people who are pushing things, and thinking forward just move on to the next thing - raise the bar once more, constantly strive for a new sound - you still have ALL the cookie cutters who are late on he bandwagon but if you know where to look and who to follow, what labels are pushing it and where stuff goes down you can see people are always going forward.

i'm sure its the same in flatland aswell, only difference is exposure - the majority of people who expose themselfs are the clones - and its the same with music, all the people pushing it forward dont need to expose themselfs because if you know, you know, right?


Not sure what my point is, its just some thoughts.

Its interesting you made the comparason to music - i've seen a few genres of music go from absolute awesome forward thinking original style to mindlessly cookie cutter bandwagon thing - most noticably is drum and bass in the early 2000's and dubstep in around 2007/8 to now. Garage before that, hardcore before that, and so on and so forth.

Thing is with music the people who are pushing things, and thinking forward just move on to the next thing - raise the bar once more, constantly strive for a new sound - you still have ALL the cookie cutters who are late on he bandwagon but if you know where to look and who to follow, what labels are pushing it and where stuff goes down you can see people are always going forward.

i'm sure its the same in flatland aswell, only difference is exposure - the majority of people who expose themselfs are the clones - and its the same with music, all the people pushing it forward dont need to expose themselfs because if you know, you know, right?


Not sure what my point is, its just some thoughts.

holy words.

I used to have really strong views on the importance of originality, now I would say that I simply value it most. Flatland comprises a fairly large group world-wide and with the quick and easy diffusion of tricks and combos over the internet, it seems, mimicry was bound to spread like wildfire. Not sure where exactly I stand on this issue now, I mean, life is short, you should not feel hindered about trying a trick just because someone beat you to it. You are free to enjoy riding as you will. Locally, however, groups of riders are much smaller and alienating a rider simply because he or she isn't very creative seems kinda harsh. On the other hand it gets really boring really quick to see a hundred web edits by a hundred fresh upstarts doing their best to look and ride like Matthias or whoever.

Another thing to think of is that although there are next to infinite combos one could try to pull off, there are really a limited number of central positions that almost everyone starting up now is learning first (i.e. the new basics) with these standards in place its no wonder so many ride the same way doing the same stuff.

In a sense, it seems partly self imposed. Because scuffing and certain kinds of frame whipping tricks are no longer *cool* modern flatland has artificially limited itself to the new standards I alluded to (i.e. turbined steam rollers and cliff-hangers for example). If people stopped following such trends and standards and started just exploring unique trick ideas for the sheer enjoyment of it we might see more creativity once again.

I generally tend to agree with TJ and B-random above (and think Dom is unfairly tagged).

Also the fact that everybody sees everything nowadays on the internet has us all trying out similar tricks we think look fun to learn, in a more magnified way than was so in the old days with only VHS movies and magazines. Back then it seemed like there were more people around me doing it so it was more important to stand out and not copy your friend's tricks. Now I know way more people worldwide riding flatland than I did back then, but definitely less locally, if that makes any sense. And because of that flatland has become more of a commodity, or a common, sharper-defined, kind of discipline now, and therefore possibly more homogenized as we all sort of pursue it together.

I still value originality very much, but I don't necessarily consider the trick as being unique unless it's a very special trick, like maybe the Katrina, or ummm Perry Doom? It has to have some large over-arching characteristic for it to be considered a "signature" trick, otherwise it sorta falls into the public domain lexicon of the grand flat glossary as we all absorb it. I admit that it seemed like there were more different styles back then, but yet somehow i'm still convinced flatland has evolved a lot in the last 25 years. In the past 5 years? maybe less so, I dunno, I think yes in some ways.

However, if I had a really special trick I had bit from a friend (and I ain't above bitin) and we were at a contest competing against one another it would be really provocative for me to do it first. The distinction is there somewhere.

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Thanks for contributing the script errors to the discussion at hand. I can see that you tried to post videos of Chase and Kevin, however I think anyone with half a brain will be able to easily tell you that we've moved beyond that era of riding and bringing it up doesn't really accomplish anything other than stoking the flames of an age old debate about who invented what to begin with that is hardly relevant to the discussion you just spammed.