Problem with frame; KHE/Flatlandfuel.

[Paradoxium]

I locked it while I sorted out the matter. The original title was of concern to some, and I mediated this problem, and Sean is being looked after. My sponsor Newcircle, together with FF really came through for me on this one. Thanx Shane, Ross and Pat.  
There isn't really anything more to discuss, but its not locked. 

[Sean Paul]

Paradoxium did indeed go out of his way to help mitigate my frustration and attempt to provide resolution. Way out of his way and above and beyond call.

However it must be stated that neither KHE nor pat/FF were of any help during this resolution attempt. Infact, it appears that they've completely stood on their grounds.

While I commend their ability to look into the sun with their eyes open for long periods of time, I still question the sensibility of it.

Newcircle came through. FF did not come through however, atleast not in any relevant way in regards to my issue and a resolution.

I dont say this to take a crap on you karl, but to not mislead the public on the situation. I know the facts and I know that you went really far out of your way to try to fix this and see me happy. I want to state that I *am* happy. Im happy that there are good people in the world like you who seek to help others in unfortunate situations. Im happy that people like you, shane, ross and newcircle are willing to break even (or possibly take a small loss) to see that a dedicated rider keeps riding. This type of ethical behavior is what creates a solid foundation for TRUST. TRUST is what keeps my business. THIS type of business plan is the kind that executes itself for the long haul.

Bu as far as im concerned this (khe/FF) situation was never resolved. I still have two cracked KHE's and a retailer that gave me the worst advice possible under the guise of giving me supposedly the best advice ever, who still holds his ground that he gave me solid advice. Yea pat, throwing me a shoddy taiwanese manufacturer with the smallest limited warranty on the market REALLY helped me resolve my issue with extremely expensive non-warrant-able bicycle frames breaking. Thanks for choosing to educate your pockets with money instead of providing me with a ethical choice. Remember this everyone. If you are ignorant to the working of this industry, DO NOT trust patrick's advice.

Flatlandfuel will never see another penny from me, or KHE. I will start dealing with companies that are willing to uphold their integrity behind their decisions, and not hide behind legal curtains and claim everything is well while watching the sky fall.

I should be getting a colony cube this week (shows cleared customs, postal service should have it and deliver soon!), and from everything i've seen/read/tried it seems like a good fit for me. I've also gotten confirmation from several people that I will be sorted with any issues that may occur, unlike previous experiences.

The moral of the story?

Educate yourself. Because business owners will always look after business first.

whitty: most of the concerns you brought up have been addressed. You should read the other thread. I understand your rationalizations, but unfortunately most of them are not valid.

Cars are also really dynamic vehicles. Should we expect manufacturers to engineer products that are theoretically not able to withstand the extensive varibles of driving environments?

No, of course not. That would be absolutely effing retarded. Why the hell would we spend so much money on a car unless it was safe and preformed to standards and expectations? Not to mention safety. What happens when a frame snaps and you fall straight on it? Are you aware that people have been *impaled* by faulty bicycle parts breaking? Many a bicycle manufacturers have been sued over some very serious injuries. Negligence should NEVER be accepted or 'toned down' (as you are trying) in ANY industry. Thats incredibly irresponsible, unethical, and really the opposite way of thinking in regards to *progression* within the industry.

You cant fix things until you break them. You cant fix things unless you acknowledge that it is first broken. Keep on giving them excuses, and they will keep on denying that their product is broken. Keep up that passive approach and the world will step all over you.

A flatland frame is no different in theory or application.

[Havokflat]

i have not read this entire thread, but anytime someone disses
on Pat, i feel the need to speak of all my experiences with FF.


100% satisfaction over the past 2 years.
he does a LOT for the American scene.  you may have a legit beef,
and i'm not here to defend him in your specific situation; but he
tries to give good advice and help anyone who asks.

nobody is perfect.

[pine]

lol at this whole big topic i understand you want to replace your frame but 2nd hand is 2nd hand.........

an does any 1 else think that the frame could of been fixed if the seat stay was only welded to the seat tube an the top tube like on khe tantra or khe  equilibrium or most others street frames?

lol blessings only buy new or global .flat. market place which sell 2nd hand at good prices dont expect warranty lol

an if it crack boy just  go get it welded up till it cracks again that is how we do it in Trinidad any way we dont have time to waste on sending back a frame to get a new 1 f*ck that sh*t we riding it till it in PIECES!    i always wanted a r.i.p.  but apparently they really do rest in pieces ahahah

[bram]

Sorry to hear you had problems with it..
the toptube of the rip 2 is 0.1 mm or 0.004 inch thinner compare to the rip 1 toptube.
it’s a little thinner than before, but still thicker than most other modern frames.

I had never heard of a rip 1 cracking there actually.. the 0.1mm thinner tube is not going to make such a big difference that all of the sudden they all crack there.
Sometimes is a production thing but most often it’s the tricks being done on the bike.
depending on the tricks i did in a certain period of time, frames (and other parts) broke in the same area.. including the same parts from different companies.

It’s too easy saying that every frame should fit any man’s riding. If you really think that, you should ride a 2.5kg+ frame.. And yes i really DO think that there should be some heavier/stronger modern frames on the market for those who ride hardcore and just don’t want their frames to bend and break.. The only reason why nobody produces them is because you are not going to invest in something that is not likely to sell now would you?

I used to be amongst the most hardcore riders and i cracked ALOT of frames and parts..
That’s the reason why both rip frames were a little heavier than the average frames that came out around the same time.

These days you see lots of people doing decades and whopper stuff.. the toptube is where its most likely to break... if id knew about this whopper/decade trend by the time i was designing the rip 2 i would have made it extra thick in that area..
still its not supposed to crack in no time.. however, every frame will break and if you ride real hardcore not a single frame outlasts a full year.
For me it usually was just half a year  sometimes less

But again.. sorry you broke it.. I did my very best, hope you appreciate that..

And.. Rip frames are supposed to rest in pieces so apparently the times you rode em, you rode em well!

[bram]

Cars are also really dynamic vehicles. Should we expect manufacturers to engineer products that are theoretically not able to withstand the extensive varibles of driving environments?

depends.... buy a porsche and expect it to hit the 190mph on the track where its made for... yeah!
do that for years.. mwa... but yeah..... Do it for 24h in one go.... no!
if you want that, you should buy a le mans porsche at 5 times the cost.

does porsche have to limit their cars at 130mph because you could break them if you'd do 190mph all day? if they'd do that you wouldn't buy one right?

back to the bikes...
I could make you a lightass frame that holds all kinds of different hardcore tricks but it will cost a $1000..
Im sorry.....

[Havokflat]

Cars are also really dynamic vehicles. Should we expect manufacturers to engineer products that are theoretically not able to withstand the extensive varibles of driving environments?

depends.... buy a porsche and expect it to hit the 190mph on the track where its made for... yeah!
do that for years.. mwa... but yeah..... Do it for 24h in one go.... no!
if you want that, you should buy a le mans porsche at 5 times the cost.

does porsche have to limit their cars at 130mph because you could break them if you'd do 190mph all day? if they'd do that you wouldn't buy one right?

back to the bikes...
I could make you a lightass frame that holds all kinds of different hardcore tricks but it will cost a $1000..
Im sorry.....

was the Toy frame ever recovered?