Man I remember when the stout boy came out and they messed up the frame and had to include a washer to use on the drive side so your chain wouldnt eat the seat stay .I miss my sabbath ,Wish I would of never tried to trade it ,Because the dude ripped me off and sent me a smashed up degroot haro master .The box was ok ,Just looked like he beat on the frame with a hammer and stomped on the rear triangle .