Author Topic: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....  (Read 34712 times)

Offline jazzman

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2009, 05:14:11 AM »
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick
:beer:

as far as sprocket size, I think being able to have an 18t sprocket should be the smallest. (not sure about the biggest!) Be able to run at least a 1.85 in the rear would be nice.  Removable brake mounts are nice! A Spanish BB would be nice as well... just my .02$
"This thread is hilarious. "-TJ Perry
"I feel the same about your political opinion as I do about your d!ck. I'm glad you have it, I'm glad you're so very proud of it..but I do not want to hear about it, compare it to mine, or see you wave it around.

After all, everyone believes their own is perfect anyway."

TJ Perry

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2009, 05:15:23 AM »
Yeah a decent removeable mounts system is a MUST. Removable gyro tabs too. I had to take a hacksaw to mine and it looks like sh*t, but if they are there they kill my knees all the time.

TGK

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2009, 05:53:31 AM »
" 2FLAT2FURIOUS:Yeah a decent removeable mounts system is a MUST. Removable gyro tabs too. I had to take a hacksaw to mine and it looks like sh*t, but if they are there they kill my knees all the time. "




I always used to rip the bottom of my pants/jeans legs.(Every dam pair)

Offline Amahl Abdul-Khaliq

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2009, 07:45:55 AM »
- 28 tooth max, 15 tooth min.
- 1.95 tires and smaller.
- Spanish bottom bracket.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:54:30 AM by Amahl Abdul-Khaliq »

Offline Pat

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2009, 07:52:40 AM »
why does min. size matter? why not make it so you could just run as small as you want.... i have 13/9 on my kgb and i wish i had a little more chain clearance...
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Offline EZChris

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2009, 12:12:27 PM »
why does min. size matter? why not make it so you could just run as small as you want.... i have 13/9 on my kgb and i wish i had a little more chain clearance...


Beacuse that means the chainstays have to be 90 degrees to the center of the BB. Thus lowering the bottom bracket some and effecting how the bike rides quite a bit.
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Offline bhuffman

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2009, 02:44:26 PM »
Lots of good ideas in here and I agree with almost all of them. The biggest problem I've had with frames over the last few years is the cs - just too short. 13+ would be nice. Slightly lowered top too is good, but there are a lot of frames that have it too low and it actually makes a lot of tricks harder plus it just feels uncomfortable. Need some clearance between the front tire and downtube. I think everything has been covered. I'd say stick to a 71 or 72 ST angle. How about some cool colors? I know thats pretty minor but we covered everything else.
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Offline Furball

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2009, 07:11:35 PM »



Rick, here are some suggestions:


1. Small Batches

Short frames, long frames, frames with brake mounts, frames without brake mounts, frames with removable gyro tabs, cable guides, and brake mounts, etc. (the old supply and demand thingy).


2. Seat Tube

No externally-machined seat tube (they tend to crack; see photos below). Use a fluted seat tube instead. And no built-in seatpost clamp either (you don't want that if you're doing decades).




(before anyone asks, yes, those are Sick Child frames)


3. Dropouts

5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Either weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts (St. Martin "Eiffel", "Diamond", and "Gaia"), or make sure they're flush with the dropouts (Ares "Garuda"). No capped seat and chainstays.

St. Martin "Eiffel" dropouts


Ares "Garuda" dropouts





 ;D :P

4. Bottom Bracket

No Euro BB. Small bearings do not handle loads well. Especially side loads. And Mid BB is overkill for flatland. If you're riding Flatland, Spanish BB is the way to go. Post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell (I hate ovalized BB shells!). 11.5" height.


5. Tubing

Rustproof coating inside and outside prior to painting/powdercoating.
Diameter: TT (double-butted) / DT 1.25" (single-butted), SS / CS 3/4".


6. Seat and Chainstay Bridges

No plates. Use crosstubes instead of plates to reinforce the rear triangle. The plates tend to crack on most frames.


7. Head Tube

4-3/8" rise (this allows for a low TT), 74.5° HA, integrated head tube (Campagnolo-style) with removable gyro tabs for the dudes with brakes, and no gyro tabs for the brakeless riders.


8. Tire and Sprocket Sizes

Max. tire size: 1.85" (the inflated width of a 1.85" Odsy Frequency G is about 1.9"), max. sprocket size: 25T (the age of pizza and dinner plates is over). Make sure people can use micro drive gearing.

Here's Luis Elias' Instrumental with a 15/9 gearing (15-tooth sprocket/9-tooth driver).



9. Weight

Somewhere in the neighborhood between 4.25lbs-4.5lbs.


10. Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 07:20:26 PM by Furball »
Remember, grammar is the difference between "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse", and "I helped my uncle jack off a horse".

I just started getting into flatland stuff about 3 days ago and suck so far, I blame my sh*tty bike and lack of practice.

Offline FlatismŽ

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2009, 07:41:50 PM »
Oh the bottom bracket dilemma... :wacko:
Just my 2p worth...
Imo, I would genrally  prefer Euro BB, but with the 2x single larger width bearings ftw?? (Big improvement on the 4x narrow bearings version of old.)
It is rubbish having to banging bearings spanish/Mid in/out of a BB shell!
Flat-ism

Offline JUGGARNAUT

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2009, 08:24:10 PM »



Rick, here are some suggestions:


1. Small Batches

Short frames, long frames, frames with brake mounts, frames without brake mounts, frames with removable gyro tabs, cable guides, and brake mounts, etc. (the old supply and demand thingy).


2. Seat Tube

No externally machined seat tube (they tend to crack; see photos below). Use a fluted seat tube instead. And no built-in seatpost clamp either (you don't want that if you're doing decades).




(before anyone asks, yes, those are Sick Child frames)


3. Dropouts

5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Either weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts (St Martin "Eiffel", "Diamond", and "Gaia"), or make sure they're flush with the dropouts (Ares "Garuda"). No capped seat and chainstays.

St Martin "Eiffel" dropouts


Ares "Garuda" dropouts





 ;D :P

4. Bottom Bracket

No Euro BB. Small bearings do not handle loads well. Especially side loads. And Mid BB is overkill for flatland. If you're riding Flatland, Spanish BB is the way to go. Post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell (I hate ovalized BB shells!). 11.5" height.


5. Tubing

Rustproof coating inside and outside prior to painting/powdercoating.
Diameter: TT (double-butted) / DT 1.25" (single-butted), SS / CS 3/4".


6. Seat and Chainstay Bridges

No plates. Use crosstubes instead of plates to reinforce the rear triangle. The plates tend to crack on most frames.


7. Head Tube

4-3/8" rise (this allows for a low TT), 74.5° HA, integrated head tube (Campagnolo-style) with removable gyro tabs for the dudes with brakes, and no gyro tabs for the brakeless riders.


8. Tire and Sprocket Sizes

Max. tire size: 1.85" (the inflated width of a 1.85" Odsy Frequency G is about 1.9"), max. sprocket size: 25T (the age of pizza and dinner plates is over). Make sure people can use micro drive gearing.

Here's Luis Elias' Instrumental with a 15/9 gearing (15-tooth sprocket/9-tooth driver).



9. Weight

Somewhere in the neighborhood between 4.25lbs-4.5lbs.


10. Thanks for reading!
Uhhh,Ditto. I'd say that about covers it.The whole Externally machined tube thing is old news,Multiple Butted tubing is the way to go,NO sharp edges to crack at.Unless it's a slow taper.
 Thanks Furball, on point as usual. ;D

Offline Furball

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »
Oh the bottom bracket dilemma... :wacko:
Just my 2p worth...
Imo, I would genrally  prefer Euro BB, but with the 2x single larger width bearings ftw?? (Big improvement on the 4x narrow bearings version of old.)
It is rubbish having to banging bearings spanish/Mid in/out of a BB shell!

That's why I suggested the post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell. ;)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 07:27:25 PM by Furball »
Remember, grammar is the difference between "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse", and "I helped my uncle jack off a horse".

I just started getting into flatland stuff about 3 days ago and suck so far, I blame my sh*tty bike and lack of practice.

TJ Perry

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2009, 01:14:23 AM »
Fur that little breakdown is pretty much perfect. Your point about the rear dropouts should be in a memo addressed to EVERY company thinking about making a flatland frame.

Offline Pat

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2009, 08:55:24 AM »
maybe now martti's new forest riders have something to base their frame off  ;D
SLOflatlander-Central Coast California Flatland

g-man

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2009, 07:05:58 AM »
maybe now martti's new forest riders have something to base their frame off  ;D
Im glad trend whores have more Taiwan shiit to look forward to.  :rolleyes:



This thread is about a real company that builds bikes, not a fake company that has the lowest bidder build their frames.
Flatland needs S.B.C. and more real builders to wash out the sub par shiit.

TJ Perry

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Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2009, 07:34:18 AM »
Im glad trend whores have more Taiwan shiit to look forward to.  :rolleyes:

What metric are you using to judge a welders ability in Taiwan vs that of a welder in America? If I add up all the frames I've owned in the past and stacked up which were made in taiwan vs which were made in the US, I would say that I've had better luck with the bikes that were made in taiwan than I have with anything made in the US.

You're basing your opinion on stereotypes. Just because someone has something made in Taiwan doesn't mean that it's going to suck. They're not third world over there by any stretch of the imagination.