English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 03:16:05 PM

Post by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 03:16:05 PM

I think it's imperative that we start an official Height / Bike / Frame database for
beginners looking for information on what size frame they should get to even someone
who thinks they might be riding the wrong frame. Or even someone looking for something

In my opinion, people put waaay too much emphasis on top tube length. Not only is rear
end length just as important..but wheelbase is the most important thing on a flatland bike.


1) Post your height
2) Your brand and model of frame
3) Your top tube length(s)
4) Your rear end length(s)
5) Your wheelbase (or wheelbases)

You can also add other information like whether you ride a zero offset fork or offset, crank length, stem length, etc. Comments on whether the bike feels cramped or spacious are important too. Any vital information.

This information is vital for people. Especially beginners. It's one thing to read about something. It's another to see what people actually use in real life according to their height and/or weight. This could help someone new from buying the wrong frame and/or wasting money / having to go through the process of selling a frame they hate to get another one.

I'll go first

Me -
Just over 5' 8" tall
130-135 pounds depending on the time of year
Lanky build (think caucasian version of Takahiro Ikeda)

2013 St. Martin Ten

17.9" top tube
12.1" Rear
30.5" Wheelbase
125mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

First off - Very few St. Martin frames are the actual length they are advertised as. That's just a fact. My friend Wes and I have owned just about every St. Martin frame ever made at one point or another. We have both meticulously measured them and most of them are shorter than advertised. The 17.9" top tube Ten by St. Martin is actually 17 5/8". MUCH shorter than 17.9". Keep this in mind as we go forward.

Feels cramped up front. Awesome for Hang Five type tricks. VERY squirrely for whiplash / front wheel tricks because the frame is very short and not very it doesn't work very well as a counter balance. You have to compensate with your body. Also, with light tires like KHE Mac 1's, the front wheel can unintentionally hop during Fire Hydrant type tricks. It just seems to have no anchor. A heavier set of tires and/or pegs on each end of this bike would do it justice, I think.

You need short cranks on this frame. Otherwise, they're just ridiculously in the way.

Overall, I think this frame would be PERFECT for someone between 5' 1" and 5' 6". Especially if you have short limbs and not monkey arms like I do.


2013 St. Martin Ten

18.8" top tube
12.1" rear
31.5" Wheelbase
145mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

Again, this St. Martin frame is actually 18 5/8"...not 18.8 as advertised.

Very comfortable up front. You can use a 26mm stem or 40-45mm stem and still feel comfortable on this bike. After riding it for a long time with a 28mm stem, I switched to a 35mm Colony Exon stem and it made the bike feel perfect for me. An inch doesn't sound like much..but the handling between this frame and the 17.9 Ten listed above is NIGHT and DAY. Frame works excellent as a counter balance and I'd say it's perfect for anyone between 5' 5" and 5' 10" tall. My only complaint is that I wish the frame was actually 18.8" because I grew up riding a frame that had a top tube which was almost exactly that size.


2013 St. Martin Voodoo

19.3" top tube
12.1" rear
32" wheelbase
125mm cranks
zero offset fork

Another St. Martin top tube scandal. I measured this one right away. From the Gyro tab holes to the center of the seat tube is 19". Not 19.3 as advertised.

I literally just built this bike yesterday. Generally, a 19.3" top tube would be a deal breaker for me because that usually means a longer rear end. However, not in this case. The rear end is still only 12.1" which keeps the wheelbase length down while giving you TONS of room up front. As of right now, I'm running a 35mm stem on it. I don't have the experience on it to get into great detail..but I can tell you this - If I wasn't old school and didn't still use the top tube for tricks, the bike would be too long for me..and probably anyone around 5' 8"..unless you like a LOT of room. However, I still launch decades from the top tube and it feels amazing. I love having the space up front with a super short rear end. When I have more experience with this bike, I will come back and edit this to add more information.

I've added photos of each frame / rig in order of listing below.

Post by: aliasdck on October 13, 2019, 09:15:50 PM
I was 6' 2" tall when I graduated high school but I guess I've shrunk because nowadays I measure about 6' 1"
I weigh about 185 pounds
I'm tall and mostly lanky

Frame: 2019 We The People Utopia
20" Top Tube
13.125" Rear End
33.5" Wheelbase
160 or 165mm cranks, I forget which
Zero Offset Forks
40mm reach stem with 34mm rise (top load)
Handlebars have 8" rise and I have as many spacers as possible underneath the stem (and fork steerer Tube is tall, 185mm)

This bike has been the best fit for me of all the bikes I've tried thus far. Backwheel tricks especially feel nice whereas previous bikes always felt too tiny in relation to my body. Front wheel tricks are great too, plenty of room and the seat doesn't feel too far away.

As good as the bike feels I am still interested in trying an even longer frame. Thinking of getting a frame with similar angles but with a top tube between 20.5 to 21 inches and setting the rear end around 13.3".
Post by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 10:10:03 PM

Here's something to keep in mind and is useful info for frame hunters -

If you find a frame that has a top tube that you like but the chainstay happens to be a hair too long, most dropouts have enough space in them remove material. Say a rear dropout was 13.6" slammed and you wanted 13.3". You could use a 3/8" or 14mm carbide burr (depending on your axle slot size) and bring that axle slot in to get it down to 13.3". I've found that MOST dropouts have at least a 1/4" of space where material can be safely removed.

A lot of people would be firmly against this. But if it's done proper, it's totally invisible and you wouldn't even notice with the wheel removed.
Post by: aliasdck on November 20, 2019, 01:52:25 AM
Ive been riding the WTP Utopia with the 20" TT for awhile now, but Ive been really wanting to try an even longer frame. I finally got enough $ together, so last week i bought a DK Phase frame with a TT of 20.8" and a rear end about 0.25" longer than my utopia (13.25" slammed vs 12.95" slammed). So i expected this bike's wheelbase to be about 1" longer then my utopia, and it is. The headtube angle is slightly steeper (75.2 instead of 75) and the seat tube is a bit more mellow (71 instead of 71.5).

I am LOVING this longer frame. Back wheel tricks feel so much more natural for me, the balance point just feels more align with my body whereas on shorter frames balance just feels awkward and cramped especially in tight spins.

So far front wheel tricks feel good too. I thought, for sure, that certain front wheel tricks like jugglers would be difficult with the longer TT but so far they haven't been. Everything on the front still feels good, just going to take a bit of time to readjust for a few tricks but that is  to be expected with any major change. Hang fives and hang nothings feel great, I was worried the seat would feel too far away, but nope. Same with spinning switch handed steam rollers, the distance from the grip to the seat feels perfect. The only trick that Ivee found so far that feels a bit awkward is the karl kruiser, but i think with a bit more practice I will readjust no problem.

I was really worried that going with a 20.8" TT would be too much of a change but it hasn't been and I am very glad i went with it. If you are a taller rider and feel cramped on 'normal' flatland bike then maybe give a longer bike a try. It worked out for me.

I'm tall and mostly lanky, about 6'1" and 180lbs

Frame: 2019 DK Phase
20.8" Top Tube
13.5" Rear End (pegs are hanging off the ends of the dropouts a bit)
34.5" Wheelbase
160mm cranks
Zero Offset Forks
40mm reach stem with 34mm rise (top load)
Handlebars have 8" rise and I have as many spacers as possible underneath the stem (and fork steerer Tube is tall, 185mm)

Post by: DaddyCool on November 22, 2019, 11:11:40 PM
Hi Voodoo, very good idea!
1. I am 6 ft 2" tall (1.88 m)2. I mainly use a PiR custom frame.3. TT is 19.17" (48.7 cm) measured center to center parallel to the top tube4. CS is 13.19" (33.5 cm)5. Wheelbase is 32.87" (83.5 cm)
I fully agree that the wheelbase is super important!
Many riders would say this is very short for my size, but I tried a Flatware Tango with almost identical angles and CS with 1 cm more wheelbase and it somehow felt too long even after month. I am super happy with the geometry of the custom PiR frame. Nevertheless I can also ride well with the Tango which I have built up as a spare bike.
Post by: DaddyCool on November 22, 2019, 11:13:13 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I use zero offset forks.
Post by: flatnatics on November 23, 2019, 06:36:47 AM
I think top tube length is subjective to each individual. I know ppl that are the same height as myself that ride 20” top and others that ride much shorter and both shred, each person will have a personal fav and unless you ride diff setups and experiment you’ll never know.