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English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 03:16:05 PM

Title: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 03:16:05 PM



I think it's imperative that we start an official Height / Bike / Frame database for
beginners looking for information on what size frame they should get to even someone
who thinks they might be riding the wrong frame. Or even someone looking for something
new.


In my opinion, people put waaay too much emphasis on top tube length. Not only is rear
end length just as important..but wheelbase is the most important thing on a flatland bike.


RULES -
NO GUESSING
ONLY ACTUAL DATA ALLOWED
THANKS!

1) Post your height
2) Your brand and model of frame
3) Your top tube length(s)
4) Your rear end length(s)
5) Your wheelbase (or wheelbases)


You can also add other information like whether you ride a zero offset fork or offset, crank length, stem length, etc. Comments on whether the bike feels cramped or spacious are important too. Any vital information.

This information is vital for people. Especially beginners. It's one thing to read about something. It's another to see what people actually use in real life according to their height and/or weight. This could help someone new from buying the wrong frame and/or wasting money / having to go through the process of selling a frame they hate to get another one.

I'll go first

Me -
Just over 5' 8" tall
130-135 pounds depending on the time of year
Lanky build (think caucasian version of Takahiro Ikeda)

2013 St. Martin Ten

17.9" top tube
12.1" Rear
30.5" Wheelbase
125mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

First off - Very few St. Martin frames are the actual length they are advertised as. That's just a fact. My friend Wes and I have owned just about every St. Martin frame ever made at one point or another. We have both meticulously measured them and most of them are shorter than advertised. The 17.9" top tube Ten by St. Martin is actually 17 5/8". MUCH shorter than 17.9". Keep this in mind as we go forward.

Feels cramped up front. Awesome for Hang Five type tricks. VERY squirrely for whiplash / front wheel tricks because the frame is very short and not very stable..so it doesn't work very well as a counter balance. You have to compensate with your body. Also, with light tires like KHE Mac 1's, the front wheel can unintentionally hop during Fire Hydrant type tricks. It just seems to have no anchor. A heavier set of tires and/or pegs on each end of this bike would do it justice, I think.

You need short cranks on this frame. Otherwise, they're just ridiculously in the way.

Overall, I think this frame would be PERFECT for someone between 5' 1" and 5' 6". Especially if you have short limbs and not monkey arms like I do.


===============================


2013 St. Martin Ten

18.8" top tube
12.1" rear
31.5" Wheelbase
145mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

Again, this St. Martin frame is actually 18 5/8"...not 18.8 as advertised.

Very comfortable up front. You can use a 26mm stem or 40-45mm stem and still feel comfortable on this bike. After riding it for a long time with a 28mm stem, I switched to a 35mm Colony Exon stem and it made the bike feel perfect for me. An inch doesn't sound like much..but the handling between this frame and the 17.9 Ten listed above is NIGHT and DAY. Frame works excellent as a counter balance and I'd say it's perfect for anyone between 5' 5" and 5' 10" tall. My only complaint is that I wish the frame was actually 18.8" because I grew up riding a frame that had a top tube which was almost exactly that size.

==================================

2013 St. Martin Voodoo

19.3" top tube
12.1" rear
32" wheelbase
125mm cranks
zero offset fork

Another St. Martin top tube scandal. I measured this one right away. From the Gyro tab holes to the center of the seat tube is 19 1/4". Not 19.3 as advertised. Close enough, though.

I literally just built this bike yesterday. Generally, a 19.3" top tube would be a deal breaker for me because that usually means a longer rear end. However, not in this case. The rear end is still only 12.1" which keeps the wheelbase length down while giving you TONS of room up front. As of right now, I'm running a 35mm stem on it. I don't have the experience on it to get into great detail..but I can tell you this - If I wasn't old school and didn't still use the top tube for tricks, the bike would be too long for me..and probably anyone around 5' 8"..unless you like a LOT of room. However, I still launch decades from the top tube and it feels amazing. I love having the space up front with a super short rear end. When I have more experience with this bike, I will come back and edit this to add more information.


I've added photos of each frame / rig in order of listing below.


Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: aliasdck on October 13, 2019, 09:15:50 PM
I was 6' 2" tall when I graduated high school but I guess I've shrunk because nowadays I measure about 6' 1"
I weigh about 185 pounds
I'm tall and mostly lanky


Frame: 2019 We The People Utopia
20" Top Tube
13.125" Rear End
33.5" Wheelbase
160 or 165mm cranks, I forget which
Zero Offset Forks
40mm reach stem with 34mm rise (top load)
Handlebars have 8" rise and I have as many spacers as possible underneath the stem (and fork steerer Tube is tall, 185mm)


This bike has been the best fit for me of all the bikes I've tried thus far. Backwheel tricks especially feel nice whereas previous bikes always felt too tiny in relation to my body. Front wheel tricks are great too, plenty of room and the seat doesn't feel too far away.


As good as the bike feels I am still interested in trying an even longer frame. Thinking of getting a frame with similar angles but with a top tube between 20.5 to 21 inches and setting the rear end around 13.3".
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: Voodoo on October 13, 2019, 10:10:03 PM



Nice!
Here's something to keep in mind and is useful info for frame hunters -


If you find a frame that has a top tube that you like but the chainstay happens to be a hair too long, most dropouts have enough space in them remove material. Say a rear dropout was 13.6" slammed and you wanted 13.3". You could use a 3/8" or 14mm carbide burr (depending on your axle slot size) and bring that axle slot in to get it down to 13.3". I've found that MOST dropouts have at least a 1/4" of space where material can be safely removed.


A lot of people would be firmly against this. But if it's done proper, it's totally invisible and you wouldn't even notice with the wheel removed.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: aliasdck on November 20, 2019, 01:52:25 AM
Ive been riding the WTP Utopia with the 20" TT for awhile now, but Ive been really wanting to try an even longer frame. I finally got enough $ together, so last week i bought a DK Phase frame with a TT of 20.8" and a rear end about 0.25" longer than my utopia (13.25" slammed vs 12.95" slammed). So i expected this bike's wheelbase to be about 1" longer then my utopia, and it is. The headtube angle is slightly steeper (75.2 instead of 75) and the seat tube is a bit more mellow (71 instead of 71.5).

I am LOVING this longer frame. Back wheel tricks feel so much more natural for me, the balance point just feels more align with my body whereas on shorter frames balance just feels awkward and cramped especially in tight spins.

So far front wheel tricks feel good too. I thought, for sure, that certain front wheel tricks like jugglers would be difficult with the longer TT but so far they haven't been. Everything on the front still feels good, just going to take a bit of time to readjust for a few tricks but that is  to be expected with any major change. Hang fives and hang nothings feel great, I was worried the seat would feel too far away, but nope. Same with spinning switch handed steam rollers, the distance from the grip to the seat feels perfect. The only trick that Ivee found so far that feels a bit awkward is the karl kruiser, but i think with a bit more practice I will readjust no problem.

I was really worried that going with a 20.8" TT would be too much of a change but it hasn't been and I am very glad i went with it. If you are a taller rider and feel cramped on 'normal' flatland bike then maybe give a longer bike a try. It worked out for me.



I'm tall and mostly lanky, about 6'1" and 180lbs

Frame: 2019 DK Phase
20.8" Top Tube
13.5" Rear End (pegs are hanging off the ends of the dropouts a bit)
34.5" Wheelbase
160mm cranks
Zero Offset Forks
40mm reach stem with 34mm rise (top load)
Handlebars have 8" rise and I have as many spacers as possible underneath the stem (and fork steerer Tube is tall, 185mm)

(https://i.imgur.com/YLFLk0f.jpg)
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: DaddyCool on November 22, 2019, 11:11:40 PM
Hi Voodoo, very good idea!
1. I am 6 ft 2" tall (1.88 m)2. I mainly use a PiR custom frame.3. TT is 19.17" (48.7 cm) measured center to center parallel to the top tube4. CS is 13.19" (33.5 cm)5. Wheelbase is 32.87" (83.5 cm)
I fully agree that the wheelbase is super important!
Many riders would say this is very short for my size, but I tried a Flatware Tango with almost identical angles and CS with 1 cm more wheelbase and it somehow felt too long even after month. I am super happy with the geometry of the custom PiR frame. Nevertheless I can also ride well with the Tango which I have built up as a spare bike.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: DaddyCool on November 22, 2019, 11:13:13 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I use zero offset forks.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: flatnatics on November 23, 2019, 06:36:47 AM
I think top tube length is subjective to each individual. I know ppl that are the same height as myself that ride 20” top and others that ride much shorter and both shred, each person will have a personal fav and unless you ride diff setups and experiment you’ll never know.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: 89schwinnsting on December 17, 2019, 11:32:39 PM
Okay, as a shorter rider, I'd like to add my input on this. What image hosting service should I use to post a pic?
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: metalbmxer on December 18, 2019, 06:34:37 PM
Okay, as a shorter rider, I'd like to add my input on this. What image hosting service should I use to post a pic?

imgBB
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: 89schwinnsting on December 18, 2019, 10:24:31 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: 89schwinnsting on January 29, 2020, 03:47:29 PM
I'm 5'5" and 150 lbs. Here are my bike measurements before I  switched to a smaller ride last week.

2016 Ares APlus-1
18.5" TT
13.18" rear end
32" wheelbase

40mm shadow conspiracy odin stem and zero-degree forks.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: a08 on January 31, 2020, 09:19:02 PM
this is a great reference and is going to save me a ton of money.. keep posting!!!
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: a08 on February 03, 2020, 07:40:32 PM
Ive been riding the WTP Utopia with the 20" TT for awhile now, but Ive been really wanting to try an even longer frame. I finally got enough $ together, so last week i bought a DK Phase frame with a TT of 20.8" and a rear end about 0.25" longer than my utopia (13.25" slammed vs 12.95" slammed). So i expected this bike's wheelbase to be about 1" longer then my utopia, and it is. The headtube angle is slightly steeper (75.2 instead of 75) and the seat tube is a bit more mellow (71 instead of 71.5).

I am LOVING this longer frame. Back wheel tricks feel so much more natural for me, the balance point just feels more align with my body whereas on shorter frames balance just feels awkward and cramped especially in tight spins.

So far front wheel tricks feel good too. I thought, for sure, that certain front wheel tricks like jugglers would be difficult with the longer TT but so far they haven't been. Everything on the front still feels good, just going to take a bit of time to readjust for a few tricks but that is  to be expected with any major change. Hang fives and hang nothings feel great, I was worried the seat would feel too far away, but nope. Same with spinning switch handed steam rollers, the distance from the grip to the seat feels perfect. The only trick that Ivee found so far that feels a bit awkward is the karl kruiser, but i think with a bit more practice I will readjust no problem.

I was really worried that going with a 20.8" TT would be too much of a change but it hasn't been and I am very glad i went with it. If you are a taller rider and feel cramped on 'normal' flatland bike then maybe give a longer bike a try. It worked out for me.



I'm tall and mostly lanky, about 6'1" and 180lbs

Frame: 2019 DK Phase
20.8" Top Tube
13.5" Rear End (pegs are hanging off the ends of the dropouts a bit)
34.5" Wheelbase
160mm cranks
Zero Offset Forks
40mm reach stem with 34mm rise (top load)
Handlebars have 8" rise and I have as many spacers as possible underneath the stem (and fork steerer Tube is tall, 185mm)

(https://i.imgur.com/YLFLk0f.jpg)

I have a similar thread now going in a Facebook group. and I'm calculating the ratio between tt+stem length and height so I can standardize comparisons. (I know there are other factors but this works for my thought process)..

this is the longest set up I've seen here or there.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: aliasdck on February 03, 2020, 08:04:22 PM
Yes it's a pretty long setup and I bet most would find it too long. I don't know, it's working great for me.  It's the first bike that I don't feel uncomfortably cramped on.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: a08 on February 03, 2020, 08:13:36 PM
Yes it's a pretty long setup and I bet most would find it too long. I don't know, it's working great for me.  It's the first bike that I don't feel uncomfortably cramped on.

well, its good to know people are riding flat only on long set ups too.. a part of me just wants to rebuild my old 250L which was 21.25tt/48mm and go from there. its definitely what I'm used to riding but Im afraid it will hinder progression trying to ride flat only on it. and just starting out I want to do everything I can to lower the learning curve.. I do dream a Long buttery manual or a fast peg manual on a long bike though but thats about as close to riding flat on it I got. which I'm sure is laughable to those here.

fyi I'm 6'0.. not super tall..
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: aliasdck on February 03, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Really the only thing that will truly hinder progression is not practicing. You can likely learn just about any trick on most setups, some things will be easier on a shorter bike and some things will be easier on a long bike. There really isn't an ideal setup, there will be pros and cons either way.

I am over 6 feet tall and have ridden very short bikes (1999 Hoffman EP, for example), long bikes like my current setup and everything in between. Progression happened on every bike whether it was short or long.

And there definitely are people riding flat on long bikes. An obvious example is Matthias Dandois, he currently rides with a TT of 21" .
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: Revig on February 03, 2020, 10:23:59 PM
And there definitely are people riding flat on long bikes. An obvious example is Matthias Dandois, he currently rides with a TT of 21" .

there is also that guy from Arkansas, for sooooo long ;)

http://www.flatmattersonline.com/trevor-meyers-new-custom-flatland-frame (http://www.flatmattersonline.com/trevor-meyers-new-custom-flatland-frame)
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: aliasdck on February 04, 2020, 01:57:37 AM
Lol! How could I forget to mention Trevor Meyer! He has always been one to ride a long bike along with tall/wide bars.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: a08 on February 04, 2020, 07:10:46 PM
Really the only thing that will truly hinder progression is not practicing. You can likely learn just about any trick on most setups, some things will be easier on a shorter bike and some things will be easier on a long bike. There really isn't an ideal setup, there will be pros and cons either way.

I am over 6 feet tall and have ridden very short bikes (1999 Hoffman EP, for example), long bikes like my current setup and everything in between. Progression happened on every bike whether it was short or long.

And there definitely are people riding flat on long bikes. An obvious example is Matthias Dandois, he currently rides with a TT of 21" .

I think you bring up a really good point here about riding long bike vs not riding... I am trying to build a new set up though so I just want something optimal. will def push on in the meantime.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: Mambocowboy on June 09, 2020, 06:59:35 PM



I think it's imperative that we start an official Height / Bike / Frame database for
beginners looking for information on what size frame they should get to even someone
who thinks they might be riding the wrong frame. Or even someone looking for something
new.


In my opinion, people put waaay too much emphasis on top tube length. Not only is rear
end length just as important..but wheelbase is the most important thing on a flatland bike.


RULES -
NO GUESSING
ONLY ACTUAL DATA ALLOWED
THANKS!

1) Post your height
2) Your brand and model of frame
3) Your top tube length(s)
4) Your rear end length(s)
5) Your wheelbase (or wheelbases)


You can also add other information like whether you ride a zero offset fork or offset, crank length, stem length, etc. Comments on whether the bike feels cramped or spacious are important too. Any vital information.

This information is vital for people. Especially beginners. It's one thing to read about something. It's another to see what people actually use in real life according to their height and/or weight. This could help someone new from buying the wrong frame and/or wasting money / having to go through the process of selling a frame they hate to get another one.

I'll go first

Me -
Just over 5' 8" tall
130-135 pounds depending on the time of year
Lanky build (think caucasian version of Takahiro Ikeda)

2013 St. Martin Ten

17.9" top tube
12.1" Rear
30.5" Wheelbase
125mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

First off - Very few St. Martin frames are the actual length they are advertised as. That's just a fact. My friend Wes and I have owned just about every St. Martin frame ever made at one point or another. We have both meticulously measured them and most of them are shorter than advertised. The 17.9" top tube Ten by St. Martin is actually 17 5/8". MUCH shorter than 17.9". Keep this in mind as we go forward.

Feels cramped up front. Awesome for Hang Five type tricks. VERY squirrely for whiplash / front wheel tricks because the frame is very short and not very stable..so it doesn't work very well as a counter balance. You have to compensate with your body. Also, with light tires like KHE Mac 1's, the front wheel can unintentionally hop during Fire Hydrant type tricks. It just seems to have no anchor. A heavier set of tires and/or pegs on each end of this bike would do it justice, I think.

You need short cranks on this frame. Otherwise, they're just ridiculously in the way.

Overall, I think this frame would be PERFECT for someone between 5' 1" and 5' 6". Especially if you have short limbs and not monkey arms like I do.


===============================


2013 St. Martin Ten

18.8" top tube
12.1" rear
31.5" Wheelbase
145mm Profile cranks
Zero offset forks

Again, this St. Martin frame is actually 18 5/8"...not 18.8 as advertised.

Very comfortable up front. You can use a 26mm stem or 40-45mm stem and still feel comfortable on this bike. After riding it for a long time with a 28mm stem, I switched to a 35mm Colony Exon stem and it made the bike feel perfect for me. An inch doesn't sound like much..but the handling between this frame and the 17.9 Ten listed above is NIGHT and DAY. Frame works excellent as a counter balance and I'd say it's perfect for anyone between 5' 5" and 5' 10" tall. My only complaint is that I wish the frame was actually 18.8" because I grew up riding a frame that had a top tube which was almost exactly that size.

==================================

2013 St. Martin Voodoo

19.3" top tube
12.1" rear
32" wheelbase
125mm cranks
zero offset fork

Another St. Martin top tube scandal. I measured this one right away. From the Gyro tab holes to the center of the seat tube is 19 1/4". Not 19.3 as advertised. Close enough, though.

I literally just built this bike yesterday. Generally, a 19.3" top tube would be a deal breaker for me because that usually means a longer rear end. However, not in this case. The rear end is still only 12.1" which keeps the wheelbase length down while giving you TONS of room up front. As of right now, I'm running a 35mm stem on it. I don't have the experience on it to get into great detail..but I can tell you this - If I wasn't old school and didn't still use the top tube for tricks, the bike would be too long for me..and probably anyone around 5' 8"..unless you like a LOT of room. However, I still launch decades from the top tube and it feels amazing. I love having the space up front with a super short rear end. When I have more experience with this bike, I will come back and edit this to add more information.


I've added photos of each frame / rig in order of listing below.
Great thread and info here. I'm 6'2 195. My 19.5 Ares AFX tt feels plenty long but with a 12.6 CS my heel hits the back peg . I'm just getting back into bmx and flatland for the first time since about 1988. I also have a 21 inch tt street bike with 13 inch cs, a Fly Omega, which feels plenty roomy but way too long for flatland.  As I do more front and back wheel tricks on my Ares I should get a better idea of my ideal bike dimensions. Incidentally I already broke the Ares stem bolt so I'm replacing it with an s&m flatland stem. Also I'm swapping out the 27 inch wide Ares bars for 22 inc wide Bayou bars I scored on Offer Up. I also don't like the Ares pedals so I'm swapping them for some Odyssey Grandstand V2s since my feet are big and need more surface contact....
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: rideflat43 on June 11, 2020, 12:33:52 AM
Height 5'9 1/2
Weight-170 LBs (bounce between 168-170)


Motel Works Frame and Fork
18.6 top tube
12.8 chain stay
31.2 wheelbase
160mm PROFILE TITANIUM crank length
20 INCH WHEELS..32 SPOKED
1.825 tires..a little bigger than normal tires as more grip and turn power!
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: classytouch on June 21, 2020, 02:23:45 AM
Hey guys,


This is an awesome thread. I'm currently in the market for a new frame and am wondering how much longer I should go.



Height: 5'11
Weight: 180lbs


Current Setup:


ST. Martin Eiffel Frame


TT: 18.2


I'm just getting back into flat after a long hiatus and have noticed that I just don't feel like I have enough room at times. I've been eyeing the Autum Blitz No Touch Frame TT 18.7


Before I shelve out any money I was wondering is .5' would actually make a difference? Also what happened to all the style??? Everything just look like regular street bikes now.



Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: DaddyCool on June 24, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
Hello classytouch, nice to have you here!
Yeah, the street look... I don't like it so much but almost all riders follow this trend at the moment. This is why frames like the Autum are rare.About the TT length: 0.5" can feel a lot! I would not choose more difference (although in the end you can get used to anything).
But it depends a lot on the overall geometry! When you have a longer TT with HT and ST angle being the same, your seat is more far away from the handlebar (as long as you do not compensate with your seat position (as long as you don't use pivotal seats)). But you could have the same effect for example with a lower ST angle...
For backwheel tricks the wheelbase is very imortant for your overall feeling. So you need to consider this parameter and it is influenced by the CS length, ST angle, HT angle and TT length.
This may help to estimate how much different another frame might feel.
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: rideflat43 on June 24, 2020, 11:01:27 PM
I am on a short setup pretty much at 18.75 frame length(Motel Works)
6.75 bar height etc(Ryal Goods-Dylan Worsley bars) etc etc


It is really how comfortable you are with your setup in your
setting up the bike and i feel comfortable with my setup!
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: classytouch on June 27, 2020, 12:23:53 AM
Hello classytouch, nice to have you here!
Yeah, the street look... I don't like it so much but almost all riders follow this trend at the moment. This is why frames like the Autum are rare.About the TT length: 0.5" can feel a lot! I would not choose more difference (although in the end you can get used to anything).
But it depends a lot on the overall geometry! When you have a longer TT with HT and ST angle being the same, your seat is more far away from the handlebar (as long as you do not compensate with your seat position (as long as you don't use pivotal seats)). But you could have the same effect for example with a lower ST angle...
For backwheel tricks the wheelbase is very imortant for your overall feeling. So you need to consider this parameter and it is influenced by the CS length, ST angle, HT angle and TT length.
This may help to estimate how much different another frame might feel.


Hey DaddyCool,


I really appreciate your taking time to answer my question! I've been riding for some time but for some reason never truly understood the mathematics of frames with respect to rider and fit. I know some of it is trial and error but I also want to get something i'll be really happy with...Something with some STYLE too! I think I'm going to give the Autum a shot..... Also... Where can one get an Ares? It seems Flatlandfuel doesn't have as many frame options as they used to have.


Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: Mambocowboy on June 27, 2020, 08:51:11 PM
Hello classytouch, nice to have you here!
Yeah, the street look... I don't like it so much but almost all riders follow this trend at the moment. This is why frames like the Autum are rare.About the TT length: 0.5" can feel a lot! I would not choose more difference (although in the end you can get used to anything).
But it depends a lot on the overall geometry! When you have a longer TT with HT and ST angle being the same, your seat is more far away from the handlebar (as long as you do not compensate with your seat position (as long as you don't use pivotal seats)). But you could have the same effect for example with a lower ST angle...
For backwheel tricks the wheelbase is very imortant for your overall feeling. So you need to consider this parameter and it is influenced by the CS length, ST angle, HT angle and TT length.
This may help to estimate how much different another frame might feel.


Hey DaddyCool,


I really appreciate your taking time to answer my question! I've been riding for some time but for some reason never truly understood the mathematics of frames with respect to rider and fit. I know some of it is trial and error but I also want to get something i'll be really happy with...Something with some STYLE too! I think I'm going to give the Autum a shot..... Also... Where can one get an Ares? It seems Flatlandfuel doesn't have as many frame options as they used to have.
I was checking out Alejo Marques' channel on youtube. He rated the Autum his number one frame currently on Flatland Fuel. He also liked the Heresy, based on his riding it...incidentally. at 6 feet tall he said anything over 20tt is uncomfortable for him for flatland.  I think what we have to keep in mind is we really don't pedal that much; it seems like the distance between peg, and distance to get around the bike matters. For me I'm riding 19.5 tt with 8 inch bars. I'm switching to 9 inch bars but I think my next frame will be 19.3 or even 19...
Title: Re: THE OFFICIAL HEIGHT / BIKE DATABASE
Post by: rideflat43 on June 30, 2020, 11:34:18 PM
Those are two good frames and at 6 foot or about 6'1 as the 19.5
is about right length and you do not have to be a Trevor Meyer or
a Kevin Jones,who are both tall,to ride a 19.5 frame. i have said it
is what you are comfortable on and I am 5'8 and just ride a 18.75
frame.OSG,who i ride with rides a Hoffman Strowler frame..Kevin
Jones second design effort..The Big Daddy Frame was introduced
in the early 1990's. He is a big guy at 6'2 and he loves the frame
as it is light and 74.5HA(head angle).It comes in 18.75 and 19.75
frame length.Removanle brake mounts and cable guides,Mid BB,
integrated  headtube with removable detangler tabs.


It is a really steady frame for the larger flat riders and is like
around $250.00 and you can still get them and just look around!
The thing as they are very steady and will take tall and heavy
riders and still are light!