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English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: wesbmxr on October 28, 2013, 06:50:52 PM

Title: martii/justin
Post by: wesbmxr on October 28, 2013, 06:50:52 PM
Justin Miller and Martii Kuoppa, will you please grab your bikes and do what you were born to do? cheers!!!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: FlatismŽ on October 29, 2013, 12:19:56 AM
and Faris too...while were at it!!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: sogolsatrio on October 29, 2013, 03:59:27 AM
Keep Flame and Blazing Up !!!
(http://cdn.bmx.transworld.net/files/2013/07/2013-07-17-at-11.12.25-AM-225x150.jpg)
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9mrF4iyC2Q#ws)

(http://blog.fattonybmx.com/wp-content/gallery/justin-miller-archives/justin-miller-2008-02.jpg)
photo by: Fat Tony (http://blog.fattonybmx.com/pictures-of-justin-miller-flatland-bmx/)
JustinMillerlink.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjuIkQEhIo#)
JustMillerlink2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM9fDVegnXQ#)
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wesbmxr on October 29, 2013, 05:30:56 PM
excellent videos! thanks guys> and flatism, you're absolutely right about Faris!! How can people who are so damn good just give it up?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on October 29, 2013, 08:45:08 PM
Can add Paul Osicka to that list too.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: FlatismŽ on October 29, 2013, 09:34:45 PM
You could also add Bram, Penonzek in there too..

@wesbmxr
I do pointlessly go over this question in my head from time to time. I realise there's not one single reason as to why certain extremely talented riders, do just stop all-together.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 29, 2013, 10:52:34 PM
excellent videos! thanks guys> and flatism, you're absolutely right about Faris!! How can people who are so damn good just give it up?

because nothing ever comes of it and it's mentally/physically draining?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: FlatismŽ on October 29, 2013, 11:33:03 PM
excellent videos! thanks guys> and flatism, you're absolutely right about Faris!! How can people who are so damn good just give it up?

because nothing ever comes of it and it's mentally/physically draining?


Burn out basically!?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 30, 2013, 02:24:55 AM
It's incredibly taxing to ride 5 hours a day like Justin. It kills your body and just pisses you off in the long run...like justin.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on October 30, 2013, 02:27:16 PM
Maybe because i don't ride to compete against anyone, even myself; or plan on entering competitions ever, i find flatlanding enjoyable and meditative. I think the perspective one takes into and out-of flatlanding is important to the length of time one does flatlanding.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on October 30, 2013, 02:31:47 PM
Simply put: don't stress over riding, there is enough stressors in life- work, family, health, children, bills...etc, why make your hobby stressful too? If a trick or link comes, it comes, no point forcing it if you aren't riding competitively...
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wesbmxr on October 30, 2013, 03:24:17 PM
incredibly taxing my ass!! I'm never going to be the best flatlander in the world but I've enjoyed every minute of it!! some people have real problems!!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on October 30, 2013, 07:36:23 PM
We all need to be challenged through life.

Made flatland become less challenging for them.

In search of lifes next challenge.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 30, 2013, 09:57:12 PM
incredibly taxing my ass!! I'm never going to be the best flatlander in the world but I've enjoyed every minute of it!! some people have real problems!!

Go get to martti's or Justin's level and then tell us how you feel.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wesbmxr on October 30, 2013, 10:29:42 PM
I'm never going to be at that level and I can admit that freely. All I was trying to say was that I would like to see them ride again. Sit there with your arms crossed and a mad face and continue your cycle of negativity keyboard pussy!!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: leeroy002 on October 30, 2013, 10:31:04 PM
marrti is back riding, but just as a hobby, as it should be, justin i think was there to win and he did that, now hes renovating houses and happy not riding, which is respectable ,cos he came and kicked ass, then when he needed a new challenge, he was gone
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 30, 2013, 11:05:46 PM
I'm never going to be at that level and I can admit that freely. All I was trying to say was that I would like to see them ride again. Sit there with your arms crossed and a mad face and continue your cycle of negativity keyboard pussy!!

Ok I'll do that and maybe in the meantime you'll get better and realize how ridiculous you sound.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: rideflat43 on October 31, 2013, 03:34:27 AM
I can update you guys on some of these riders


Andrew Faris is working in Canada as a Volkswagon mechanic last time I know of him
and he is no longer riding.


Paul Osicka lives in Ecuador in the lower Andes Mountains and he is a farmer now as
he grows food and he still rides last time I talked to him which was two months ago.


You know about the rest pretty much and yeah Justin not going to ride much probably
and last time I talked to Marti...he was riding a few days a month and not like he was
doing back awhile ago.


Nathan lives in Panama and he has a little house there and what I have heard he still
rides on occasion and he enters comps down there sometimes or judges as they do have
quite a bit of comps there in Panama,Columbia and Costa Rica!


That is all I know and I can also tell you Andrew Arroyo and Kerry Gatt still rides also
I see them once in awhile!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: rideflat43 on October 31, 2013, 03:36:53 AM
Funniest that I have heard lately was Jay Miron was graduating from Wood art
carving school and well he is Canadian after all but I never saw Jay doing that
type of art work with a jigsaw or otherwise.I have known Jay forever and everytime
I think of this..it makes me laugh!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on October 31, 2013, 11:36:22 AM
Does jay miron ever need to work another day? With MacNeil and the pivitol system royalties...
i too do wood carving, if he ever needs tropical hardwood, can hook him up, lol!
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on October 31, 2013, 12:14:41 PM
+1 carver here
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wesbmxr on October 31, 2013, 03:44:05 PM
You bet your ass I'll try to get better, that's what flatland is all about. Have a good one sweetie, need a hug?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on October 31, 2013, 06:48:43 PM
Do i smell a new feud brewing? Lol, take it easy guys- it's just internet forum...
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on October 31, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
Heh I think TJ was just saying that to get to the level Martti or Justin were at can take a toll on your life. It's one thing to "live" flatland but to be, clearly, one of the best at it is a whole different thing. That level of commitment, with little or no reward other than self-satisfaction and respect from others (or other things you can't buy a house with), can be a recipe for trouble. I think it's easy to say "it's my life I'll never quit" when you don't actually give yourself over to flatland as much as these guys did. Not "you" as in "you" you, just in general.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on October 31, 2013, 08:36:22 PM
Just thinking about "5 in a row" makes me consider renovating homes
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: jm on October 31, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
I'm guessing no one here has put a fraction of the effort into riding as these guys did, so it seems pretty reasonable that at some point they'd back down and explore other things. Including things that pay actual money to live on.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 09:35:07 PM
I wouldn't blame Martii for not riding anymore. He has gotten so good and so natural at it that he can basically just pick up on anything he wants extremely fast. I think it's almost not even a challenge for him at this point.

When it comes to Justin, let's just say I don't think he was riding for the correct reasons in the first place. It's pretty much common knowledge in the flatland world that you're not going to become rich or even famous in the grand scheme of things. He rode himself practically to death almost purely for contests and no other reason.

As someone pointed out, Paul O. still rides and as far as we know, he might still be extremely good or even better than he was before.

Personally, I know that there is hardly any money in BMX so I'm in school for engineering. There's no unwritten rule that one can't do both. This is why I don't buy this "Oh, he can't make money" excuse or "they never got anything out of it" nonsense. How about personal satisfaction or self-discipline? What about just being physically active and fit? Or whatever happened to just riding because we want to? Look at Chase; he always rode hard just for the sake of riding. Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on October 31, 2013, 10:07:01 PM
How about personal satisfaction or self-discipline? What about just being physically active and fit? Or whatever happened to just riding because we want to? Look at Chase; he always rode hard just for the sake of riding. Nothing more, nothing less.


I just want to again highlight the difference between riding hard and being the best. Both Martti and Justin were intensely competitive riders. They weren't gifted and happened to speak flatland naturally, they worked for it. Paul O  or Chase or Kevin J ride in a different way.

The reasons you mention for riding are all great, but M and J rode for different reasons. My point is that riding like they did to be the best has shown to be a tortuous and somewhat unfulfilling undertaking.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: jm on October 31, 2013, 10:28:39 PM
I wouldn't blame Martii for not riding anymore. He has gotten so good and so natural at it that he can basically just pick up on anything he wants extremely fast. I think it's almost not even a challenge for him at this point.

When it comes to Justin, let's just say I don't think he was riding for the correct reasons in the first place. It's pretty much common knowledge in the flatland world that you're not going to become rich or even famous in the grand scheme of things. He rode himself practically to death almost purely for contests and no other reason.

As someone pointed out, Paul O. still rides and as far as we know, he might still be extremely good or even better than he was before.

Personally, I know that there is hardly any money in BMX so I'm in school for engineering. There's no unwritten rule that one can't do both. This is why I don't buy this "Oh, he can't make money" excuse or "they never got anything out of it" nonsense. How about personal satisfaction or self-discipline? What about just being physically active and fit? Or whatever happened to just riding because we want to? Look at Chase; he always rode hard just for the sake of riding. Nothing more, nothing less.



I mean, some people need to ride 6-10 hours a day to maintain and progress, so working full time is not always a practical option. Like if we look closely at Chase as you suggested, you'll probably find that he doesn't really have a booming career outside of riding. That's his choice, but when he got sick, he had to reach out for donations, because he was broke.


As far as the highlighted stuff there, all I can say is ask an NBA player if he'd be OK with no paycheck. Mentioning just being physically fit and getting personal satisfaction would probably get you punched. hahaha


It's a commentary on how in almost every other sport, the very best are successful financially as well as personally. I'm not ok with the lack of funds for these skilled riders, and I don't expect them to be, either. But to suggest we should be satisfied with just being fit and active is sort of a slap in the face to guys that devote their entire lives to riding with no hope of being supported.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: jm on October 31, 2013, 10:34:36 PM
I don't mean to say that money was the reason Justin and Martti left...I sort of went on a tangent there :)
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
I'm not ok with the lack of funds for these skilled riders, and I don't expect them to be, either. But to suggest we should be satisfied with just being fit and active is sort of a slap in the face to guys that devote their entire lives to riding with no hope of being supported.

I never said it was okay either. I don't see why people can never seem to understand what I'm saying. I wish all good riders could make bank but the reason you get into riding in the FIRST PLACE should never be for contests or money. This is all I'm saying.

Like if we look closely at Chase as you suggested, you'll probably find that he doesn't really have a booming career outside of riding.

Neither do most other riders.

As far as the highlighted stuff there, all I can say is ask an NBA player if he'd be OK with no paycheck. Mentioning just being physically fit and getting personal satisfaction would probably get you punched. hahaha

I hardly ever compare flatland to other sports because most other sports are comprised of nothing more than jocks and dickhead who never really cared that much for the sport in the first place. These NBA players only went into the sport because of the money and having natural tallness/jump ability. The game is so easy for them and infantile that it's comparable to when a two-year-old pushes plastic shapes into their appropriate holes. Personally, I have always viewed ball games as being for the mentally challenged. The very nature of our sport is completely different -- it's a 'whole different ball game'.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:09:50 PM
I just want to again highlight the difference between riding hard and being the best. Both Martti and Justin were intensely competitive riders. They weren't gifted and happened to speak flatland naturally, they worked for it. Paul O  or Chase or Kevin J ride in a different way.

The reasons you mention for riding are all great, but M and J rode for different reasons. My point is that riding like they did to be the best has shown to be a tortuous and somewhat unfulfilling undertaking.

As far as i understand, Martii ultimately rode for himself. JUSTIN on the other hand rode for different reasons and if he thought he was going to be rich or famous, then he was delusional.

Contrary to what most people think, Chase is not a natural rider. He just simply rides hard. Riding hard and being the best are practically no different. You ride hard to be the best that you can be at what you want to do because you f*cking want to. This is exactly what Chase did. No other reason is needed.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
And I will add that you can also ride hard while having a job, school, kids, spouse, etc. Plenty of riders know this -- especially the pros in fact. Most other riders have plenty of other things going for them in life at the same time. We are not all a bunch of deranged, obsessive, anti-social hermits as the stupid stereotypical morons have classified us in the past.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 31, 2013, 11:24:20 PM
We are not all a bunch of deranged, obsessive, anti-social hermits as the stupid stereotypical morons have classified us in the past.


but i am. i'm just deranged and obsessive with lots of different things other than riding.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:24:51 PM
I don't mean to say that money was the reason Justin and Martti left...I sort of went on a tangent there :)

Actually, I'm pretty sure that is the exact reason Justin left.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on October 31, 2013, 11:26:11 PM
Justin also never rode for riches or fame or anything. He just seriously wanted to be the best. Honestly I think he got there.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:30:20 PM
We are not all a bunch of deranged, obsessive, anti-social hermits as the stupid stereotypical morons have classified us in the past.


but i am. i'm just deranged and obsessive with lots of different things other than riding.

I can be too at times, but so are most people to some degree or another. We all have our quirks, but most of them are benign. It just comes with being a person. And TJ, you also have plenty going for you in life outside of flatland what with your education, music, business, etc.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on October 31, 2013, 11:32:42 PM
Contrary to what most people think, Chase is not a natural rider. He just simply rides hard. Riding hard and being the best are practically no different. You ride hard to be the best that you can be at what you want to do because you f*cking want to. This is exactly what Chase did. No other reason is needed.


Lol I'm not tryna be argumentative but riding "to be the best that you can be" wasn't even what M + J were after. It was just to win contests. Maybe not their whole life or that that is what got them into flatland originally or even at the very end, but at some point it became this way for them, or maybe i'm misrepresenting history with my own story. Entirely possible. I'm not saying Chase was a natural at it, but I wouldn't characterize his contributions to flatland to be a trophy hunter. He was more of a "soul rider"? Lol that's corny. Like he rode for the stimulation, the puzzles, trances, and mastery things. Anyway the era he is most known for is not really the same kind of heated contest-atmosphere that Martti and Justin rode in post 2000.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:34:54 PM
Justin also never rode for riches or fame or anything. He just seriously wanted to be the best. Honestly I think he got there.

Maybe, but got a different impression of him from plenty of stories that I've heard. These 'rumors' if you want to call them could be false, but after a while of hearing them, I think there is probably some amount of truth behind it.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:37:01 PM
Contrary to what most people think, Chase is not a natural rider. He just simply rides hard. Riding hard and being the best are practically no different. You ride hard to be the best that you can be at what you want to do because you f*cking want to. This is exactly what Chase did. No other reason is needed.


Lol I'm not tryna be argumentative but riding "to be the best that you can be" wasn't even what M + J were after. It was just to win contests. Maybe not their whole life or that that is what got them into flatland originally or even at the very end, but at some point it became this way for them, or maybe i'm misrepresenting history with my own story. Entirely possible. I'm not saying Chase was a natural at it, but I wouldn't characterize his contributions to flatland to be a trophy hunter. He was more of a "soul rider"? Lol that's corny. Like he rode for the stimulation, the puzzles, trances, and mastery things. Anyway the era he is most known for is not really the same kind of heated contest-atmosphere that Martti and Justin rode in post 2000.

Bull -- Martii rode mainly because he wanted to and there were plenty of 'heated' contests back in Chase's era as well.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on October 31, 2013, 11:41:50 PM
This is why Martii was always inventing new things. He created so much that there is no way he could possibly pull all of it in every contest out there even if he wanted to. If he was concerned solely with contests, he would not have gone out of his way to be THAT damn creative.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on October 31, 2013, 11:53:38 PM
The REALLY crazy trick era of Martti was after he cooled off on the contest circuit, no? I mean, he was always a monster and inventing things but the truly weird inventive magician stuff was not that long before he recently signed off, but back in the Red Bull COB bird flipping days he was fierce. When you ride like that for contests, you gotta be inventive with new tricks yeah, but not in the same way you would just out on your own. You're riding for consistency and it's brutal and i'd imagine the fun really starts to drain out of it.

Maybe the 90's had heated contests, lol i don't know I wasn't there, I'm just judging by the videos where it just looks like everybody's growing their hair smoking pot in a parking lot kind of intensity.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 01, 2013, 12:11:38 AM
The REALLY crazy trick era of Martti was after he cooled off on the contest circuit, no? I mean, he was always a monster and inventing things but the truly weird inventive magician stuff was not that long before he recently signed off, but back in the Red Bull COB bird flipping days he was fierce. When you ride like that for contests, you gotta be inventive with new tricks yeah, but not in the same way you would just out on your own. You're riding for consistency and it's brutal and i'd imagine the fun really starts to drain out of it.

Maybe the 90's had heated contests, lol i don't know I wasn't there, I'm just judging by the videos where it just looks like everybody's growing their hair smoking pot in a parking lot kind of intensity.

Nope, Martii was inventing weird, crazy sh*t all the time way back in the day before and during his contest days. That's what made him so popular in the first place. He was just as creative during the contest days and I mean he was ALWAYS coming up with new sh*t. Just watch some old Intrikat videos of that era -- one-foot hitch hikers, kickflips, knee-ride steamrollers, no-foot steamrollers, around-the-world variations, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. It was no different.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on November 01, 2013, 12:27:32 AM
You may have me on the historical angle again as I've had to learn about all this after it happened since I really just started flatland in 2009. And nowadays so many people have taken the tricks from those videos and made them normal that maybe I don't realize how crazy they were when they were invented. Am I wrong though, didn't he give it up in part because he had overdone it in the past or something like that? He didn't stop because he lost interest or was injured. I guess he did get a real job around that time so money was likely part of it.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on November 01, 2013, 12:28:55 AM
Well actually nobody does most of those tricks haha.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 01, 2013, 02:08:21 AM
Justin also never rode for riches or fame or anything. He just seriously wanted to be the best. Honestly I think he got there.

Maybe, but got a different impression of him from plenty of stories that I've heard. These 'rumors' if you want to call them could be false, but after a while of hearing them, I think there is probably some amount of truth behind it.

Justin and I used to talk when i was going to bed and he was getting up to ride. I rode all night and he rode in the early morning. Right after the worlds in 2004 he told me he wanted to rip out a fingernail with pliers for every place he was away from first. He wanted to win, and he wanted to be the best. Trust me.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on November 01, 2013, 04:42:17 AM
surely there is enough riders now doing things just as good..

forget these guys who are not riding anymore, what about whats happening now. didnt we just have some sweet contest go down. with a bunch of riders chilling and riding for the love of it.

would you really want some guy with a "must win" attitude turning up to anything and killing the vibe.

Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on November 01, 2013, 04:44:07 AM
whats this about martti, flipping a bird? @ COB ?

I remember watching the 03 xgames and seeing how pissed off he was.
Scary face on him

Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 01, 2013, 06:12:09 AM
would you really want some guy with a "must win" attitude turning up to anything and killing the vibe.

Honestly? Yes. It would be a nice alternative to what we've had the last few years.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 01, 2013, 08:26:07 AM
Justin also never rode for riches or fame or anything. He just seriously wanted to be the best. Honestly I think he got there.

Maybe, but got a different impression of him from plenty of stories that I've heard. These 'rumors' if you want to call them could be false, but after a while of hearing them, I think there is probably some amount of truth behind it.

Justin and I used to talk when i was going to bed and he was getting up to ride. I rode all night and he rode in the early morning. Right after the worlds in 2004 he told me he wanted to rip out a fingernail with pliers for every place he was away from first. He wanted to win, and he wanted to be the best. Trust me.


I think now from what you just told me that I was misinterpreting his attitude and behavior as being influenced by money, but it seems like he was more interested in contest placings than anything else. This to me isn't far different.

Still, riders in the past have been considered the 'best' without ever even going to contests. He was a really good rider no doubt and in my mind one does not have to get high contest placings in order for people to see that they are good. I never had to see him in a contest to know that he was exceptional and it wouldn't matter what he placed in order to make that determination.

In either case I think he just put way too much pressure on himself in regard to false motivations.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 01, 2013, 08:30:47 AM
And nowadays so many people have taken the tricks from those videos and made them normal that maybe I don't realize how crazy they were when they were invented.

This is part of what you're doing yes.

Am I wrong though, didn't he give it up in part because he had overdone it in the past or something like that? He didn't stop because he lost interest or was injured. I guess he did get a real job around that time so money was likely part of it.

What exactly do you mean by overdoing it? As far as I know he quit awhile back and then started up again. He has made some references to his physical health and the toll flatland has taken on it. He did get a job at some point too, but he was also riding at that same time.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 01, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
Well actually nobody does most of those tricks haha.

This is also true and is probably because most people still can't even come close to touching much of the sh*t he has done -- even things from long ago. I would also suggest watching his MK Moments solo dvd as well as Impulsivity if you have not already done so. A lot of it is mind blowing.

My best guess as to why he quit recently is because I don't think it is much of a challenge for him anymore. Without the challenge, he doesn't really have much motivation for it. He might not even realize this himself or maybe he just doesn't want to say it in fear of sounding arrogant.

There are only two riders in the world that I can think of who actually heavily incorporated kick flips into their riding on a regular basis and those are the two people we are speaking of right now.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Bri-jon on November 01, 2013, 12:08:31 PM
old global-flat is back I miss this depth discussions.


I never met Justin or Martti but I heard alot about how Justin was like at comps. But its his choice.


Think it would be cool if he could clam down and do a odd comp once a year so he still can see old friends and show up the scene. But life is life.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 01, 2013, 03:39:39 PM
In either case I think he just put way too much pressure on himself in regard to false motivations.

Uhh what? The guy had goals and set out on a warpath of progression in order to achieve them. How can you dismiss that because he wanted to place well?

I mean honestly, do you think every competing pro out now there is any different? Justin just never put on any fake bullsh*t through all of it. He was there to ride, not jump around for the cameras.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wolverines on November 01, 2013, 07:19:58 PM
TRUE STORY;

I remember a few years back Justin was at a contest in Cleveland, threw his bike and almost took out TRANQ'S brother......darn.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 01, 2013, 07:30:15 PM
TRUE STORY;

I remember a few years back Justin was at a contest in Cleveland, threw his bike and almost took out TRANQ'S brother......darn.

Good thing he didn't hit Tranq or else Justin would have been knee deep in lawsuits am i right?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on November 01, 2013, 09:13:24 PM
Zinnnngggggg
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 02, 2013, 01:23:27 AM
In either case I think he just put way too much pressure on himself in regard to false motivations.

Uhh what? The guy had goals and set out on a warpath of progression in order to achieve them. How can you dismiss that because he wanted to place well?

I mean honestly, do you think every competing pro out now there is any different? Justin just never put on any fake bullsh*t through all of it. He was there to ride, not jump around for the cameras.

I can't dismiss it and of course other pros do the same thing, but if that is ALL some of them are riding for then I personally don't agree with it. You can progress without contests, you can have fun without contests, and you can even be considered the 'best' without them.

Justin took contests too seriously and too literally. Who cares if some random judges have a different opinion that week especially when often times they are unsubstantiated (as you already know since many judges don't know their ass from a hole in ground)? I don't need some random dude somewhere tell me that this is good or that he/she is bad or whatever. Whether they are participants or spectators, those who depend on contests placings to do the thinking for them can't think for themselves.

I respect and even like that he wasn't there to put on some false sense of character but things are obviously getting out of control when he is literally getting violent tendencies because of it. Contests placings to me were always arbitrary and are often times meaningless.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: jm on November 02, 2013, 01:37:09 AM

old global-flat is back I miss this depth discussions.

I never met Justin or Martti but I heard alot about how Justin was like at comps. But its his choice.


Think it would be cool if he could clam down and do a odd comp once a year so he still can see old friends and show up the scene. But life is life.



Even though everyone doesn't usually agree, I think it's awesome that this type of discussion is still possible in a central worldwide flatland forum.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on November 02, 2013, 01:42:09 AM
Well contests are a complex thing. I mean they are more than meaningless in that they can at least show who rode best that day by actually landing their links in their runs. Being that super-dialed where you can nail everything in a contest is an insane level of riding that I will never aspire to although I thank Justin for showing us what that looks like. I agree in some sense that contests are meaningless in that I think the creative sides of flatland are more juicy and good for the soul than trying to force some olympic type metrics with numbers into what we do. I grew up as a skater and contests in that world definitely were no indication of who we really admired.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: ortho on November 02, 2013, 01:48:53 AM
but i mean you go back and watch some of Justin's runs in contests, and it's unmistakeable, that guy won.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 02, 2013, 03:00:15 AM
but i mean you go back and watch some of Justin's runs in contests, and it's unmistakeable, that guy won.

For sure, and this is part of my point. I saw at least a few times when Justin clearly should have placed first, but didn't because of incompetent judging. Why should he beat himself up over sh*t like this just because some guy doesn't know what he's doing? He was gauging his progress through the use of a badly warped measuring stick. 
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 02, 2013, 03:38:58 AM
Contests placings to me were always arbitrary and are often times meaningless.

So the checks and cash they give out at contests don't hold any real value? If you get f*cked at a contest because of bad judging and lose out on thousands of dollars and don't get angry, something is wrong with you. Justin was using his contest money to pay for school if I remember correctly.

The really ironic thing about Justin and contests is that the dude never showed off what he could do. You know that jump to peg wheelie terry did for years? Justin pulled that within a few tries and then Terry went at it. Justin just walked away from that trick completely. He could do so much more than his runs. SO much more.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: K.Wong on November 02, 2013, 11:51:45 AM
^Such a waste... ^ That's why every year we have similar 'where are they now' topic, if we flatlander don't remember or commemorate our past flatland greats and those that inspired us, who will?
Its not like there is a hall of fame for flatlanders...
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: D on November 02, 2013, 02:10:36 PM
The problem is with riding on that kind of super high pro contest level takes a level of commitment that prevents someone from doing almost any other things in life, while simultaneuously not really earning you any money.  Once you reach the top of the hill theres nowhere to go but down, and theres always some super motivated 18 year old with plenty of time to replace you.  Meanwhile, you're riding hours and hours and hours a day for years on end just to continue to place top three in contests that wont even pay your mortgage for the month if you win.  I can see how that would get exhausting.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: wolverines on November 02, 2013, 02:52:56 PM



Contests placings to me were always arbitrary and are often times meaningless.

So the checks and cash they give out at contests don't hold any real value? If you get f*cked at a contest because of bad judging and lose out on thousands of dollars and don't get angry, something is wrong with you. Justin was using his contest money to pay for school if I remember correctly.

The really ironic thing about Justin and contests is that the dude never showed off what he could do. You know that jump to peg wheelie terry did for years? Justin pulled that within a few tries and then Terry went at it. Justin just walked away from that trick completely. He could do so much more than his runs. SO much more.



This was at the battle at the beach comp?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 02, 2013, 03:27:08 PM



Contests placings to me were always arbitrary and are often times meaningless.

So the checks and cash they give out at contests don't hold any real value? If you get f*cked at a contest because of bad judging and lose out on thousands of dollars and don't get angry, something is wrong with you. Justin was using his contest money to pay for school if I remember correctly.

The really ironic thing about Justin and contests is that the dude never showed off what he could do. You know that jump to peg wheelie terry did for years? Justin pulled that within a few tries and then Terry went at it. Justin just walked away from that trick completely. He could do so much more than his runs. SO much more.



This was at the battle at the beach comp?

Yeah It was the one where I filmed Terry doing that ride out the day he learned it at the end of a Katrina combo. He wasn't the first to do it, Justin was.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 03, 2013, 04:06:57 AM
Contests placings to me were always arbitrary and are often times meaningless.

So the checks and cash they give out at contests don't hold any real value? If you get f*cked at a contest because of bad judging and lose out on thousands of dollars and don't get angry, something is wrong with you. Justin was using his contest money to pay for school if I remember correctly.

The really ironic thing about Justin and contests is that the dude never showed off what he could do. You know that jump to peg wheelie terry did for years? Justin pulled that within a few tries and then Terry went at it. Justin just walked away from that trick completely. He could do so much more than his runs. SO much more.

Most pros don't show off everything they can do because there is not enough time at contests to show people everything. Some of them know so much that they couldn't show you everything if they had a month to do it. They have to pick and choose what they are going to be more consistent at.

Of course you should get angry at garbage judging, but I wasn't referring to the money itself. I was referring to the way Justin took the results as some type of measure of personal progress. My question here is: was he getting more pissed off about the money or was it just the placing themselves?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 03, 2013, 04:15:55 AM
Yeah It was the one where I filmed Terry doing that ride out the day he learned it at the end of a Katrina combo. He wasn't the first to do it, Justin was.

What does this even have to do with what we're talking about? Besides, I already heard about this. From what I heard Justin was getting pissed off at Terry because Terry started doing it with greater ease and consistency. After a short while Justin decided to forget about it. Of course your take in it might be different, but I don't really care about this in particular anyway.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 03, 2013, 04:37:40 AM
Quote
Of course you should get angry at garbage judging, but I wasn't referring to the money itself. I was referring to the way Justin took the results as some type of measure of personal progress. My question here is: was he getting more pissed off about the money or was it just the placing themselves?

What business is it of yours? If Justin looked at contest placings as a way to measure progression, what does that have to do with you?

As for the Terry trick.. well, think whatever you want. If Justin wants to dial something in, Justin will dial it in. Nobody was as dialed on the same level as Justin. Ever.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 03, 2013, 05:05:32 AM
Quote
Of course you should get angry at garbage judging, but I wasn't referring to the money itself. I was referring to the way Justin took the results as some type of measure of personal progress. My question here is: was he getting more pissed off about the money or was it just the placing themselves?

What business is it of yours? If Justin looked at contest placings as a way to measure progression, what does that have to do with you?

As for the Terry trick.. well, think whatever you want. If Justin wants to dial something in, Justin will dial it in. Nobody was as dialed on the same level as Justin. Ever.

And this is where you start to get belligerent for no reason. My initial point was that contests are just a stupid way to measure progress because we have the ability to think for ourselves rather than some random judge doing the thinking for us. What the f*ck should I care about some moron's opinion like some people I don't feel like mentioning at the moment who don't know anything about riding like I do or aren't at that skill level? Some of these guys are complete idiots and you know it! f*ck what they think.

What business is it of yours? If Justin looked at contest placings as a way to measure progression, what does that have to do with you?

Because we're on a public internet thread talking about it where people are free to share their thoughts. What do you care? I could aim that same stupid question at anyone over the internet, but I won't because it's just STUPID. That is the purpose of internet forums. I think the problem here is that you are going out of your way to defend a friend rather than looking at something objectively.

And no one was ever as dialed as Justin? Not even Trevor?
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 03, 2013, 08:01:00 PM
And this is where you start to get belligerent for no reason. My initial point was that contests are just a stupid way to measure progress because we have the ability to think for ourselves rather than some random judge doing the thinking for us. What the f*ck should I care about some moron's opinion like some people I don't feel like mentioning at the moment who don't know anything about riding like I do or aren't at that skill level? Some of these guys are complete idiots and you know it! f*ck what they think.

You started talking sh*t about how Justin was riding for the wrong reasons and I got sick of telling you that you don't really know the guy or how he approaches riding.

Quote
Because we're on a public internet thread talking about it where people are free to share their thoughts. What do you care? I could aim that same stupid question at anyone over the internet, but I won't because it's just STUPID. That is the purpose of internet forums. I think the problem here is that you are going out of your way to defend a friend rather than looking at something objectively.

We're not really friends as we haven't really kept in touch over the years, but he is someone I respect a great deal. What you said was flat out wrong and I was correcting you. I mean get bent or whatever but you were making claims about what was going on in his head that were just plain wrong.

Quote
And no one was ever as dialed as Justin? Not even Trevor?

The level of tricks that Justin was pulling in contest with flawless runs was light years ahead of what Trevor used to do in contest. The two aren't even comparable.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 05, 2013, 11:42:14 PM
[quote author=2flat2furious link=topic=59738.msg456990#msg456990 date=1383505260
The level of tricks that Justin was pulling in contest with flawless runs was light years ahead of what Trevor used to do in contest. The two aren't even comparable.
[/quote]

Fair enough

You started talking sh*t about how Justin was riding for the wrong reasons and I got sick of telling you that you don't really know the guy or how he approaches riding.

This is where you're misinterpreting me as I'm not trying to 'talk sh*t'. I'm merely pointing out an observation of mine and and an interpretation of it as speculation toward an answer to the poster's question. Of course my interpretation could be flawed because I never even met the guy. My point about contests was basically directed toward everyone in general.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 05, 2013, 11:56:48 PM
Of course my interpretation could be flawed because I never even met the guy.

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Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: locky on November 06, 2013, 12:13:41 AM
What about ulrich kittel?

Wheres that guy.

I liked his riding in the early trickstars vids
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: kchez on November 06, 2013, 07:06:42 PM
It's too bad he didn't end up with some "outside" sponsors (clothing, shoes, energy drinks etc.) that could have paid a salary so that money from contests could have been supplemental, and just did shows/edits. Maybe without the contest pressure it could have kept him riding, but some people are just wired with that competitive nature that they can't escape from. Would have been interesting to see where he would have pushed his progression to.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 06, 2013, 08:25:34 PM
He didn't play the game the way a lot of guys do. He didn't go out of his way to "be cool", so the sponsors never showed him love.

It's a joke.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 07, 2013, 03:30:41 AM
Of course my interpretation could be flawed because I never even met the guy.

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Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 07, 2013, 04:26:52 AM
Of course my interpretation could be flawed because I never even met the guy.

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

........................./´¯/)
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............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`ˇ¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
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..........''...\.......... _.ˇ´
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Oh I'm so offended that the same dumbass who casts aspersions on one of the greatest riders who ever rode doesn't like the obvious flaws in his thinking pointed out.

f*cking forum riders. Always and forever.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: Flatgod on November 07, 2013, 04:50:20 AM
f*cking TJ Perry has the mentality of an eight-year-old child with always trying to get the last word in an argument. He thinks his say is the end-all-be-all. This hypocrite can't commit to making an objective argument toward one of the best riders out there regardless of his skill level (unless of course it's Chase). He will never learn to separate the emotion from the rationality nor will he ever accept when someone has a different opinion (it's practically traumatizing to him), and because of this, he will never understand the flaws in his own thinking. What a moron.

f*cking 'forum riders' like me who didn't even know of the existence of Global Flat until like four years ago were never forum riders.
Title: Re: martii/justin
Post by: 2flat2furious on November 07, 2013, 08:05:38 AM
f*cking TJ Perry has the mentality of an eight-year-old child with always trying to get the last word in an argument. He thinks his say is the end-all-be-all. This hypocrite can't commit to making an objective argument toward one of the best riders out there regardless of his skill level (unless of course it's Chase). He will never learn to separate the emotion from the rationality nor will he ever accept when someone has a different opinion (it's practically traumatizing to him), and because of this, he will never understand the flaws in his own thinking. What a moron.

f*cking 'forum riders' like me who didn't even know of the existence of Global Flat until like four years ago were never forum riders.

You're precious.