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English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 07:01:32 AM

Title: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 07:01:32 AM
If this makes me a bad guy, so be it.

What the HELL is Steve Bergeron doing entering the Veterans class?  After winning JoMoPro hands-down, and now Toronto...can we finally make it clear what the Vet class really is?  It's riders over 30 years of age with intermediate-level tricks.  Not upper-level expert tricks.

And no, it's not sour grapes on my part.  I rode so badly at JoMoPro that his win had no effect on me whatsoever; I sucked as badly as I possibly could have, and deserved a sh*tty placing (or even worse)...but my buddy took 4th, when he should have gotten 3rd.

I try not to care about contests, and of course there will always be controversy about the judging, but seriously...is this video indicative of someone who belongs in the Vet class?  I'm not bagging on him as a rider, because he's amazing.  Total props to him on that point.  But come on, man.  This is sandbagging.

What's next?  Matthias entering expert?  Contest organizers, step up and nip this sh*t in the bud.  Otherwise, I'm gonna start entering Novice and doing backward hitchhikers, cliffhangers, hang-5's on the pedal, and a regular hitchhiker, then sit back and collect my free frame and a trophy.  We'll make a complete mockery of contests.

STEVE BERGERON VIDEO BMX 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93iHCAHHM_Y#ws)
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: dan4130 on March 04, 2013, 07:11:52 AM
just like a pro street rider entering and winning novice flat
a rider that  was in the x games and x trials as a pro flatlander and enter expert class these days

Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 04, 2013, 07:21:14 AM
...some excitement... !!!!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 04, 2013, 07:25:56 AM
Steve could win Expert... easily.  He could also enter Pro and do just fine.  His tricks are WAY beyond what the Veteran Class riders are doing.  Sadly, neither the contest organizers, nor the AmFlat guys have seemed to pick up on this.  Tony Strickler is the real winner of the Veteran Class, because this guy belongs somewhere else.  He obviously just wants to go home with a trophy every time.  If I were the AmFlat organizers, I would ban him from the Veteran Class.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 07:35:45 AM
Steve could win Expert... easily.  He could also enter Pro and do just fine.  His tricks are WAY beyond what the Veteran Class riders are doing.  Sadly, neither the contest organizers, nor the AmFlat guys have seemed to pick up on this.  Tony Strickler is the real winner of the Veteran Class, because this guy belongs somewhere else.  He obviously just wants to go home with a trophy every time.  If I were the AmFlat organizers, I would ban him from the Veteran Class.

Oh, it has been picked up on...both by the judges/riders at JoMoPro, and at least a few of the riders I've talked to at Toronto (in the expert class, and they will go un-named).  But somehow, nobody does anything...it's the elephant in the room.  I still would like to think that he simply doesn't understand the categories, but it's hard to fathom that a guy with talent like that could watch the expert class and not think, 'I could beat most of these guys, even if I didn't have a great run'.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 04, 2013, 07:41:09 AM
.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: dan4130 on March 04, 2013, 07:42:48 AM
any guidelines or criteria?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 07:54:38 AM
any guidelines or criteria?

Are you talking about what the Veterans' class is?  Per my understanding, it has always been riders over 30 years of age, with intermediate-level tricks.  If that's not it, then what is it?  Anyone over 30?  So, Alex Jumelin, Chase Gouin, Martti Kuoppa, Matt Wilhelm, and others...are in our class?

What are the guidelines for expert that would keep Matthias from entering expert and winning every contest, every year?  Or Novice?  Maybe he could just win every class and make contests obsolete.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 04, 2013, 07:56:46 AM
!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mr.Archon on March 04, 2013, 08:07:58 AM
Thats ridiculous I couldnt get through half of that video knowing he was competing in veteran class. he could have easily nestled himself in the middle of the pro class with those tricks with reasonable consistency. If he had horrid consistency or scaled his riding back he'd kill expert class for sure....Enter contests is a democratic thing you can really be stopped from entering one class or another, but if his riding was any resemblance of what i saw in that video thats really a shame man.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: fer40 on March 04, 2013, 08:24:57 AM
I am veteran 43 and 3 1/2 years riding I want a veteran beginners class then I will compete, and I saw the video the only veteran that could compete with that guy is trevor mayer
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 04, 2013, 09:03:23 AM
This guy gets away with it because ultimately a veterans class is unnecessary. Folks should ride in the class appropriate to their skill level, regardless of age. The case against this dude would be way more legit if he showed up in beginner, intermediate, or a special "old school" class, but since his age probably qualifies for vet, no one can argue with him for entering it (and age seems to be the only qualification). I'm about to hit 40, but I don't have any qualms about riding against younger folks if I'm in the right class for where my skills are at nowadays. Putting some sort of cap on what types of tricks can go down in a flatland class doesn't make any sense in a sport centered around progression; if Raddad all of a sudden learns crazy turbine steam combos (which, with his determination, I honestly think he could), would he get booted out of vet? Age didn't work back in the AFA days, and this situation kinda reiterates why it didn't. If you're going to compete in a flat comp, then compete and don't think about whether you're too old to be doing the tricks you're doing. Just do your best, and hopefully beat some young whippersnappers along the way. =)
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Bri-jon on March 04, 2013, 02:46:58 PM
I always though Vet was for old school riders until I was told it was for for rider 30 and up who are not novice and not expert. Which then really confused me after seeing the runs.


I do like the idea of Pro, Expert, Novice and Old school (old school as in the old type of trick and lots of scuffing and with a goodish skill level) classes.


And a riders age doesn't  matter only skills. Like a 20 year old could enter old school if that is his riding style and he is good.


Or a 50 year old is new to the sport and enters Novice. I think that's fair.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: LennonStephens on March 04, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
I think you should have to submit your runs to judges prior to the beginning of the contest. They should then calculate a starting point value based on your skills, and put you in a class. This way if you hit everything you know where you should place and what kind of things you need to learn to be competitive. Quite like gymnastics does. Thats always been the problem with flat comps...its so vague.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Pralex on March 04, 2013, 03:57:03 PM
I think you should have to submit your runs to judges prior to the beginning of the contest. They should then calculate a starting point value based on your skills, and put you in a class. This way if you hit everything you know where you should place and what kind of things you need to learn to be competitive. Quite like gymnastics does. Thats always been the problem with flat comps...its so vague.

This is a joke, right?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: kchez on March 04, 2013, 04:01:48 PM
I think you should have to submit your runs to judges prior to the beginning of the contest. They should then calculate a starting point value based on your skills, and put you in a class. This way if you hit everything you know where you should place and what kind of things you need to learn to be competitive. Quite like gymnastics does. Thats always been the problem with flat comps...its so vague.

Was thinking the same theory but have a long, open session or jam that's monitored by the judges and mandatory to ride in to seed everyone. Could be another element to add to the contest format.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 04:18:10 PM
This guy gets away with it because ultimately a veterans class is unnecessary. Folks should ride in the class appropriate to their skill level, regardless of age. The case against this dude would be way more legit if he showed up in beginner, intermediate, or a special "old school" class, but since his age probably qualifies for vet, no one can argue with him for entering it (and age seems to be the only qualification).


"Veteran: Riders are over age 30 and want to still compete, but maybe don’t fit the Novice or Expert class."

http://www.global-flat.com/events/730/Canada/CFO_s_Flatland_Unlimited_8 (http://www.global-flat.com/events/730/Canada/CFO_s_Flatland_Unlimited_8)

Everyone else seems to understand what the class is about.  Todd Carter isn't entering Vet, nor are a ton of other guys I can name who are over 30, because they're either expert or pro-level riders.

Perhaps the Vet class is unnecessary.  If the only qualification for it were age, then it truly would be redundant and obsolete.  But if you can do even 1/4 of the stuff in that video?  You're an expert, and a damn good one.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: LennonStephens on March 04, 2013, 04:26:06 PM
no joke. Can you think of another way to justify keeping a rider from competing in a class that they are obviously over qualified for? If the rider in question here had submited a run that matched the class he entered we wouldnt be having this conversation. Its easy to say that this kind of format would take away from creativity, but all you have to do is allow for it when you project a riders score. Being that creativity is so important to the sport you would give it more weight. The only people that could be opposed to it would be the ones who want to enter a class below there skill to take home a trophy instead of trying to progress to be competitive. What are your thoughts pralex? Should he have been allowed to compete in vet? If not, how would you keep him out of the vet class?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 04, 2013, 04:48:49 PM
The word Vet class should be removed to what it really is, an intermediate class. Age is irrelevant IMO.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 04, 2013, 05:18:16 PM
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate? The only other logical reason is that older riders feel either embarrassed or awkward riding against "younger" riders, and I'm trying to say they shouldn't. What does age have to do with anything in a flat comp?
Really, what I think you're not saying is that the vet class is for riders over 30 who still want a chance at winning something, and if that's the case, they'd be competing for the wrong reasons and under rigged circumstances (i.e. riding in an age bracket to narrow the field for a shot at winning).
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 04, 2013, 05:32:33 PM
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate?

There is no intermediate class.  If they created one and dropped the Vet class, I would be all for it.  But Vet class is not just for 'older riders'.  It's older riders that are better than novices, and not as good as experts.  I agree that age is irrelevant; I just don't fit in any other class.  If worse came to worse, and they canned Vet and kept only novice and expert, I would still move UP instead of down...even if it meant last place.

And it's not about me...I'll probably hit one comp in all of 2013, anyway.  I just can't believe this hasn't been addressed already.  I know for a fact that it was discussed during practice by some of my fellow Vets at JoMoPro ('Dude, who's the ringer? WTF?'), but also by some of the judges who agreed with our assessment.  By then, it was too late (I heard the latter after the contest was over). 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 04, 2013, 05:49:26 PM
If you still want to compete but "maybe don't fit novice or expert", why wouldn't you just enter Intermediate?

There is no intermediate class. 

If that's the case, then yeah, I totally agree with you that this guy is officially sandbagging. I wasn't sure if intermediate was available to you guys or not, but this dude definitely doesn't belong in it.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: D on March 04, 2013, 06:40:40 PM
Until we can decide as a group what exactly constitutes beginner, novice, intermediate, expert, master, veteran, and/or pro, this argument will never be resolved.  Racing FORCES people to level up after you've won a certain number of races to eliminate people sticking around and getting easy wins weekend after weekend.  I think the AFA used to as well.  I saw Hoffman's people make someone sign up for the next higher class if they saw someone riding really well in practice and thought that they weren't beginner (controversial, but more fair to the younger and beginner level guys for sure)  I would suggest the same thing for flatland, but unless there's a sanctioning body that can stick around for more than a year to enforce the rules (which people usually end up hating either way anyway) again nothing will stick and the same problems will remain. 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 04, 2013, 06:48:44 PM
Ultimately, the really real bottom line is to just practice more and level up if you know who your competition is and really want to beat them. I ended up competing against some serious killers in Japan bitd, but it just made me want to ride more and learn new stuff.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 04, 2013, 07:08:21 PM
Looking at the whole picture, it's easy to say "he doesn't belong", but rules are rules and he fits every rule for "VET"  That said, earning the respect of my fellow riders is much more important to me than a prize or trophy.  It's obvious here, some riders don't respect him for entering a lower class than his skill level, but that's something he'll have to deal with (not us).

My 1st contest in almost 20 yrs was Jomopro 2012.  I prepared well from what I was told to do by my fellow local riders who have entered before, however when we got there, the judges told us they want difficulty VS. consistancy.  That blew my runs! I could have easily backed out after learning that but I stayed and unfortunately took last place.  I was ok though because I knew I earned some respect for at least giving it my best, instead of backing out.

Be honest with yourself, and you will have no regrets.  I doubt I'll ever make top 3, however riding against guys like Steve in my class will only make me hungrier.
RIDE ON!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 04, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
Looking at the whole picture, it's easy to say "he doesn't belong", but rules are rules and he fits every rule for "VET"  That said, earning the respect of my fellow riders is much more important to me than a prize or trophy.  It's obvious here, some riders don't respect him for entering a lower class than his skill level and that's something he'll have to deal with (not us).

My 1st contest in almost 20 yrs was Jomopro 2012.  I prepared well from what I was told to do by my fellow local riders who have entered before, however when we got there, the judges told us they want difficulty VS. consistancy.  That blew my runs! I could have easily backed out after learning that but I stayed and unfortunately took last place.  I was ok though because I knew I earned some respect for at least giving it my best, instead of backing out.

Be honest with yourself, and you will have no regrets.  I doubt I'll ever make top 3, however riding against guys like Steve in my class will only make me hungrier.
RIDE ON!
THIS!!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Stubbleduck43 on March 05, 2013, 12:46:44 AM
I wonder how Kevin Jones would do in the "vet" class?  Vet = veteran right?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JoeKickass on March 05, 2013, 01:36:54 AM
I wouldn't lose sleep over one person's insecurity manifested in the need to win like he's some sort of small child. A lot of this is likely rooted in penis size. Be compassionate. Can someone post a video of his run please and thank you?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 05, 2013, 01:38:37 AM
I wonder how Kevin Jones would do in the "vet" class?  Vet = veteran right?

Kevin would have to compete Pro.  The Veteran Class is for guys over 30 who are not novice but not expert.  They are intermediates.  Kevin isn't an intermediate.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JoeKickass on March 05, 2013, 01:40:37 AM
Speaking of controversy, did anyone else think that Sam won? Dub is inf*ckingsane, but Sam is inf*ckingsane +1.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Scott O on March 05, 2013, 02:28:54 AM
I think you should have to submit your runs to judges prior to the beginning of the contest. They should then calculate a starting point value based on your skills, and put you in a class. This way if you hit everything you know where you should place and what kind of things you need to learn to be competitive. Quite like gymnastics does. Thats always been the problem with flat comps...its so vague.

This is a joke, right?

Haha please tell me this is a joke. It has to be, I hope it is omg. hahaha

Settle down guys its vet class drink beer and have fun. I might enter Vet class and drink a few beers before and ride to Led Zepplin.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 05, 2013, 02:48:44 AM


Settle down guys its vet class drink beer and have fun. I might enter Vet class and drink a few beers before and ride to Led Zeppelin.


I might drink a beer "during" my run as I sing karaoke to Led Zeppelin!!!
 :beer:   :beer:   :beer:
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: ortho on March 05, 2013, 02:58:19 AM
Real Veterans know the effects of alcohol on the ability to render a proper lawnmower. #survivors
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: ortho on March 05, 2013, 03:06:18 AM
I bet I could out-drink that guy this thread is about.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 05, 2013, 03:09:21 AM
I think the idea of submitting stuff to the judges before the contest and such isn't necessary...the problem is not that rampant.  I just think this particular one is so painfully obvious, that I had to bring it up.  At JoMoPro, I commented to one of my friends that this guy must not realize that right now is for Vet practice, because he was on the floor with us...and my friend said, "No, he's riding in the Vet class".  I couldn't believe it.  The situation could have been addressed easily during practice, because it was that obvious.

And yeah...the Vet class is supposed to be a bit more fun-oriented and laid-back, so I get the mention of drinking a few beers and such and having a good time...which is exactly why someone who would finish at the top of the expert class and make a good showing in the pro class shouldn't be in it, as a dead-ringer for 1st place even if he pulls half of his stuff.  It's still a competition; that's why there are different classes to begin with.

I knew there would either be a backlash to this, or a 'who cares, dude?' attitude about it, but I felt it really needed to be said.  And it isn't about me in particular, but anyone who rides in that class legitimately.  I don't take pleasure in starting a controversy, and the reason I even notice how out-of-whack this is, is because the dude is a badass rider. For all I know, he may be the nicest guy in the world, too.  But I would hope that if I entered novice, people would call me out on it just the same, because it wouldn't be fair to the riders who are actual novices.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: ortho on March 05, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
I'm with you for the record.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Scott O on March 05, 2013, 03:20:38 AM
Hey , if you can win Am you shouldn't be in vet class, pretty obvious. But if there is only 4 guys entering vet class then there shouldn't be a vet class.  We dont need all these classes Flatland competition is getting smaller and smaller.

I did one at Voodoo last year and like 15 guys entered. I tried to do a novice class and only 3 wanted to enter so I couldnt do it. They either went into am or vet.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 05, 2013, 03:52:02 AM
Speaking of controversy, did anyone else think that Sam won? Dub is inf*ckingsane, but Sam is inf*ckingsane +1.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: bhaverchuck on March 05, 2013, 06:19:52 AM
Veterans class has been successful for most part with great turn out. It's obvious who belongs in this particular sub set. In my opinion the rider in question clearly should be in expert or pro.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Bri-jon on March 05, 2013, 02:07:52 PM
Speaking of controversy, did anyone else think that Sam won? Dub is inf*ckingsane, but Sam is inf*ckingsane +1.


Dub and Sam killed it. Dub was landing everything in practice but when the comp came he found it hard to land some links from what I saw. Sam pulled everything.
But Dub had some very new tricks were Sams were new 2 years ago and that I think is what pushed Dub for the win from the judges. I don't know much about the judging format but what I heard you got big points for doing original new stuff.


It was a really hard one to judge as there was so many good riders there and them landing big links.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: wookie on March 05, 2013, 04:45:09 PM
At least 6 of the top 8 Experts were old enough to enter Vet.   Just thought I would point that out.


Secondly,  I think AMFLAT Circuits decision last year to drop the Masters class was a mistake.  It was one of if not the most entered class and also the most hotly contested.  It's my understanding it was dropped in an effort to try push the expert guys to step up their game to ride against some Masters and to push some of the Masters to make the jump to Pro.  Well it accomplished both of those things to some extent.  However we are yet to see any of the New Pros make a splash against the established guys and Todd Carter is the only Expert class rider from 2 years back to hold his ground against the rest of the New Expert class from a results standpoint.   I am in NO way trying to take anything away from the riders they have stepped up significantly but just haven't got the results yet.  My point is the classes sometimes have a "no mans land" for some riders.


Other cycling disciplines allow riders to enter multiple classes at some events.  Road racing has categories based on speed and results as well as some older age group categories. Typically the faster old guys that win the Age based categories will also enter other races and finish mid pack.  Just throwing that in the mix for the sake of discussion. 


My personal take after watching that video is Steve would have been a perfect Masters class rider.  But for now either top placings in Expert or lower level Pro would have been more fitting than smoking the old guys.


brian, 40 year old flatlander
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: monis on March 05, 2013, 07:25:17 PM
I don't know if this helps with the debate but heres my two cents:
Steve Bergeron was one of the dudes I was worried about during the weeks leading up to the contest.  I breathed a huge sigh of relief when I heard he was riding Vet class, but at the same time I was like "why?"  He could of taken me out doing his easy stuff.   I don't know but Steve dude, you have mad skills, and you're awesome, but you need to sack up and ride with us and then join us on the dance floor at the afterparty (which is where the real fun goes down anyways)  The much coveted yellow Hoffman momentum frame that sits in my bedroom should of been yours this weekend!!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: 2flat2furious on March 05, 2013, 07:25:49 PM
Get rid of vet class. There's no room/reason for it.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Rad255 on March 05, 2013, 08:19:51 PM
Vet class is a joke and it always has been. If you can't hang don't enter. I suck pretty bad and I enter just for general purpose. No expectations of winning whatsoever. Stop letting these guys create their own subclass because they can't win.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 05, 2013, 08:39:42 PM
I dont think thats why the class was created (at least i hope not).  I certainly have no expectations of winning.  I just go and enter so i can ride amongst my friends and dance with monis and pralex afterwards.  At 43 im not trying to unseat Terry or beat Bo Wade even. I just wanna have fun and try to progress on my own level. Again, at my age, time, family and work are my #1 priority so i dont get time to ride, train or heal enough to jump into expert.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 05, 2013, 08:55:36 PM
Beginner, Expert, Master, Pro.
I added Beginner because it attracts new riders to the sport.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: mewefan on March 05, 2013, 09:21:30 PM
This has now turned into a thread debating what classes we should have at contests.  Vet?  No Vet?  Should we have Masters?  Can't we just do it they way they do in Europe - have just AM and Pro?  We have had these debates before. That wasn't even the original question.  The situation at hand is that it seems like there is one guy who continually enters a class way beneath his riding capability.  That, not the class structure, or how AMFLT is doing things,  is the problem.  I don't know Steve personally.  I have ridden against him and he seemed to be a really cool guy - we talked some and he complimented my riding.  However, I did feel like he was WAY out of my league (and everyone else in the Vet class) in terms of his riding level.  So I echo what Monis stated earlier.  Dude, we think you are a stud rider and I think we would all say that we respect your riding.  You are at least an expert level rider - and would do quite well there.  It's probably time to move up..........My two cents.....
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Rad255 on March 05, 2013, 09:58:25 PM
I dont think thats why the class was created (at least i hope not).  I certainly have no expectations of winning.  I just go and enter so i can ride amongst my friends and dance with monis and pralex afterwards.  At 43 im not trying to unseat Terry or beat Bo Wade even. I just wanna have fun and try to progress on my own level. Again, at my age, time, family and work are my #1 priority so i dont get time to ride, train or heal enough to jump into expert.

Why can't you do all of this in Expert?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 05, 2013, 10:06:23 PM
I dont think thats why the class was created (at least i hope not).  I certainly have no expectations of winning.  I just go and enter so i can ride amongst my friends and dance with monis and pralex afterwards.  At 43 im not trying to unseat Terry or beat Bo Wade even. I just wanna have fun and try to progress on my own level. Again, at my age, time, family and work are my #1 priority so i dont get time to ride, train or heal enough to jump into expert.

Why can't you do all of this in Expert?

I thought i mentioned that...
Again, at my age, time, family and work are my #1 priority so i dont get time to ride, train or heal enough to jump into expert.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Bradlandr74 on March 05, 2013, 10:23:32 PM
IMO… positive aspects still outweigh the negativity
Vet class offers great atmosphere!
I hope to see it grow

I don’t know Steve B. personally, though he might just have a specific reason for entering vet
Has anyone asked him?

I concur w/Scott O. – Drink Beer & Ride!

Best Regards,
Brad
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: shred-squad on March 06, 2013, 12:22:51 AM
If Judges see someone ridding beyond what class they entered, then why give them the win? Shouldn't there be like a deduction of points in this case?   
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: manniedamaniac on March 06, 2013, 01:17:07 AM
If Judges see someone ridding beyond what class they entered, then why give them the win? Shouldn't there be like a deduction of points in this case?   
A park comp i went to last year was like that, a kid entered beginer who was wayyy to good for that class so he got disqualified. simple as that
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 06, 2013, 01:19:31 AM
If Judges see someone ridding beyond what class they entered, then why give them the win? Shouldn't there be like a deduction of points in this case?   
A park comp i went to last year was like that, a kid entered beginer who was wayyy to good for that class so he got disqualified. simple as that


I don't agree with disqualification.  If anything he should be offered to move up 1 class.  If he refuses, then maybe disqualification may be in order.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 07, 2013, 12:02:17 AM
If someone that is clearly too good for the class they entered finishes 1st in that class, the judges could possibly just "respectfully promote" them to the next class up and readjust the top 3 placings. Kinda similar to how KOG expert class winners get to ride pro the same day they win, but in this case the "prize" for the overqualified rider is moving up a class without paying the difference in entry fees. Actual "product" prizes can go to the top 3 finishers after the promotion. Or something like that.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 07, 2013, 01:23:16 AM
If someone that is clearly too good for the class they entered finishes 1st in that class, the judges could possibly just "respectfully promote" them to the next class up and readjust the top 3 placings. Kinda similar to how KOG expert class winners get to ride pro the same day they win, but in this case the "prize" for the overqualified rider is moving up a class without paying the difference in entry fees. Actual "product" prizes can go to the top 3 finishers after the promotion. Or something like that.
+1


The only thing I don't get (and I'm not complaining, just confused) is this.


 I was there at JOMOPRO 2012 when he was told in French and English (after winning again) that he needs to move up to expert by his own friends, judges and fellow competitors. 
He agreed and he said his reason was he hasn't competed much in the past few yrs so he wasn't sure where to enter. 
That being said, was he still re-confused again this year?


True, he has broken NO rules, but I think, in this one case, the rule may be broken.
[size=78%] [/size]It's his choice.  If he can live with himself and feel pride about beating a class he is overqualified for, so be it.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: OldYeller on March 07, 2013, 03:53:44 AM
I tried to stay away from this topic based purely on the title, but damn, the dude's too good for that class.  No doubt about it.  Move on and push yourself!


To me, the vets class is just like the novice class.  It's not about the competition as much as it is to grow the sport.  It gets us old guys who may have quit or just can't keep up, back into the group with a little dignity.


If you've never gotten old and quit for a time, it may seem silly, but I'd feel like sh*t being beat by a little kid in novice or intermediate and I'm no expert anymore.  I'll know the kid's better and can fully respect that, but badly losing to him publicly isn't going to encourage me to go to contests or be part of the community.  With other old guys, it relieves that pressure and makes it accessible.


All the respect in the world for his riding ability, but it's time to move up with pride.  He's done what the rest of us in the class wish we could accomplish.  I can only dream of having a thread like this started about me ;)
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: OldYeller on March 07, 2013, 04:00:44 AM
Quote
 
He agreed and he said his reason was he hasn't competed much in the past few yrs so he wasn't sure where to enter. 
That being said, was he still re-confused again this year?


I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's just insecure, it's understandable.  If anything, he shouldn't take this thread as a slam, but a compliment and move up.  He'll do really well.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 07, 2013, 04:31:33 AM
If you've never gotten old and quit for a time, it may seem silly, but I'd feel like sh*t being beat by a little kid in novice or intermediate and I'm no expert anymore.

I'm getting old, and ride so little anymore that it borders on quitting, but I still wouldn't have any qualms about entering novice or intermediate against younger riders if that's where my skills are at. I think you'd do more for growing the sport by showing that a person of any age can get into the sport at any skill level and compete if they wanted to without having to do it against a limited or "fixed" playing field.
I guess what I don't understand is, if you're not proud enough of your riding to compete in the class appropriate to your skill, then why ride in public at all? You might as well just stay home in your local spot or just ride in the far corners of the jam lot away from everyone. I don't think I've ever seen a situation where an older rider got booed or dissed by anyone for their skill level unless it was someone that talked a whole lot of sh*t like they were better than they actually were.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: tod miller on March 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM
I'd say get rid of the Vet class and replace it with the Drunk class!  You know the old foggies would rather sit at the bar and get drunk rather than ride anyways, right?  Well, just throw them out on the contest floor after a few to many and let em do their thing. 

For real, the crew of skaters I hung with in the 80's would have a Drunk class at their skate comps.  Always a great time.

Where's Scott O at?  Voodoo's at a club/bar, no? Let's get this ball rolling...  :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: OldYeller on March 07, 2013, 06:48:47 AM

I can only speak from my own frame of mind and you might not have the same issues.  Not all of us are deep in the middle of the BMX Mecca like you are.  Some of us barely see another rider. That and knowing I was a lot better in the past does screw with my head.  I never saw that coming back in the day.

What would you say the vets class is for if not to help coax old guys back into the sport?


And it's a huge class from what I've seen, so it's drawing people in and that's a good thing if nothing else.


Would they compete if it was called Intermediate?  I don't know.  Vets is a bit more welcoming IMHO, but at some point some of them get good enough that they do need to graduate.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: tod miller on March 07, 2013, 07:51:15 AM
Yeller, I'll tell you this.  I personally think Vet class is good.  If I were to EVER enter a contest it would be in Vet class.  But I can tell you I'm more concerned with having fun than I am progressing.  Most of my tricks are from the 80's.  That's who the Vet class is aimed at(IMO), guys like me.

I don't know if the Vet class is necessarily to coax old dudes back into the sport.  Personally, I got back into it watching guys ride at Round Up, and watching a Lee Musslewhite edit.   But really, I can't say because I don't have the urge to compete.  I wouldn't think it would hurt, but then I bet if you ask any old dude if he started riding again to compete, they'd tell you "no". 

The old timers MIGHT seem a bit more welcoming to other old timers.  Rad Dad got me to come out to the OG when I was just getting started, just like I got you to come out to the OG and just ride with no worries.  But everyone is stoked to see you come out, and everyone just wants to see the others pull their stuff...regardless of skill level.  I have guys way better than me clapping for me when I pull stuff they could do with both legs tied together and blind folded.   

Is the guy in question sandbagging?  Sure.  But whadjugonnado?  Until an organization steps up and defines clear ways of moving up, sandbagging will continue.  I would think that if you come out on top in the year end standings that you would automatically get bumped up.  That's just my two cents, but really I shouldn't have a voice.  I don't compete. 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 07, 2013, 02:32:13 PM
 Steve destroyed us in that class. Lol! I look at it as motivation for myself to perform better and move up to Expert.
On a personal level Steve is a really nice guy and very supportive.  O0
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: D on March 07, 2013, 04:55:55 PM
I think it's normal for riders to probably stay just a bit too long in one ability class.  Imagine how the Mat Hoffman's competitors in the am class must've felt competing against a guy who could have easily won pro at least 2 years before he finally entered as one.  Matt Gipson used to beat up on all of us in the expert class in the mid 90's, even at the peak of my abilities on my best day I don't think I could've ever ridden better than him in a contest.  There's always at least one guy in a class who should move up that that's usually the guy who wins.  Easy solution to the problem - if you win vet the previous year you're moving up the next.  That's probably the best solution that would create the least amount of problems.  There's no shame in taking second to someone who was on the way up and out of the class. 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: OldYeller on March 07, 2013, 07:49:41 PM
Easy solution to the problem - if you win vet the previous year you're moving up the next.  That's probably the best solution that would create the least amount of problems.  There's no shame in taking second to someone who was on the way up and out of the class.


If we can't depend on everyone to realize they are good enough for the next class, this should really be in the rules.


Same with the other classes, not just vets.


There will always be "that one guy" until you are that one guy.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: B-random Fantom on March 07, 2013, 11:05:26 PM
I don't have time to read beyond the first page but as far as I've understood it, vet class is simply for people over 30 years old; regardless of skill level. If you are concerned about skill level, you enter a class with the skill level labeled. I don't compete but, if I did, I wouldn't consider myself a pro level rider anymore and I would get my ass handed to me in that class. So, if someone put a gun to my head and said, "you must compete"--first I would disarm him, heh, but if still forced to compete, I would enter vet class. Vets have typically paid their dues and probably don't fret about it as much as some of you apparently do. Is an old rusty former pro level competitor forced to always remain at pro level? Better to enter vet than to drop down to expert. That would likely ruffle even more feathers.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: 2flat2furious on March 08, 2013, 09:16:28 AM
I don't have time to read beyond the first page but as far as I've understood it, vet class is simply for people over 30 years old; regardless of skill level. If you are concerned about skill level, you enter a class with the skill level labeled. I don't compete but, if I did, I wouldn't consider myself a pro level rider anymore and I would get my ass handed to me in that class. So, if someone put a gun to my head and said, "you must compete"--first I would disarm him, heh, but if still forced to compete, I would enter vet class. Vets have typically paid their dues and probably don't fret about it as much as some of you apparently do. Is an old rusty former pro level competitor forced to always remain at pro level? Better to enter vet than to drop down to expert. That would likely ruffle even more feathers.

If people would get more mad at you competing with top experts than guys doing rock walks then I don't think it really matters what you do tbh.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatism® on March 08, 2013, 11:08:25 AM
Why would I want to enter "Vet" class¿ Feels like a kinder home for the washed up to me.
Scrap it, and reverse the years and represent by skills, not some sort of indirect ageism!?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Pralex on March 08, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
I agree with Brandon.
 
As far as I knew, the only criteria for the vet class was age, and (half) jokingly, I've been talking about my vet debut in 2014/2015 with my teammates for a while now.
 
To say Steve is too good to ride in the vet class, in my opinion, sounds insulting to the rest of the vet class. When a rider reaches the age of 30, is he not allowed to be a good rider anymore?
 
 
My main gripe with this issue is when you look at the points. Let's say the vet class was based one some (unspoken) skill level. To say he sandbagged the vet class, would imply he dominated by such a large margin that no one was close to matching him.
 
He beat Tony and won by 9 points. Only 9 points.
 
In the expert class, Ron qualified first by 18 points, and won the finals by 13 points. Should you not be upset at this way before you're upset at Steve?
 
Let's go on to say that winning your category by 9 points or more means you shouldn't be in that class; Tony had a 19 point lead on Brian Gavagan, who placed third. That would mean he was also "too good" for the vet class.
 
 
The vet class has always struck me as odd, because it is the only class with (what I believed was) criteria only based on age, rather than skill like other classes.
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 08, 2013, 06:08:00 PM
"For two years so far the class distinctions have been a work-in-progress. Our goal has been and continues to be to involve & encourage as many riders as possible to come out and compete, and when they do we want them to feel like they’re competing against their peers.

 So with that in mind, the new year brings some new tweaks. I’d like to introduce the 2012 Am Flatland Circuit’s four classes:

 Veteran: Riders are over age 30 and want to still compete, but maybe don’t fit the Novice or Expert class"


http://www.global-flat.com/events/730/Canada/CFO_s_Flatland_Unlimited_8 (http://www.global-flat.com/events/730/Canada/CFO_s_Flatland_Unlimited_8)





Even though the last sentence could have been worded more clearly, I think it's still fairly obvious what the skill level of the class is supposed to entail (in between novice and expert), and simply watching the Vet class reveals this to be the general understanding, except in this one scenario.  If it really were only limited by age, and not skill, then I agree with the people who said it's worthless and shouldn't exist.

As for whether a 'rusty pro' should enter Vet, I can't fathom why it would be more insulting to join the experts instead of the old guys who aren't good enough to even ride expert.  If you're a former pro that is no longer able to ride in the pro class, then you're an expert.  You should ride where your skills fit the best.  Otherwise, what's competitive about it?  Might as well turn it into the Old Man's Jam before the contest.

To say that Steve is too good to ride Vet is not an insult to the Vets, it's a compliment to Steve's riding.  The Vets are well aware that they're not experts, or else they would ride in that class (which is my goal before I have to stop riding).  And yes, once a guy turns 30, he's still allowed to be a good rider...there are lots of them in the expert and pro classes.

If the contest organizers say that the only qualification for riding in Vet is being over 30, I would simply enter expert and take my beating, or not compete at all.  It would be more of an insult if the only way they summed up your class had nothing to do with your skill level, but simply, 'these guys are OLD, let's all give them a round of pity-applause'. 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on March 08, 2013, 06:16:16 PM
When a rider reaches the age of 30, is he not allowed to be a good rider anymore?

This actually nails what I have a problem with: the fact that all these folks in support of a vet class seem to either not believe they are "good" enough of a rider anymore to just enter a class straight up based on their skill level, or that they want to be in some fixed class that gives them the feeling of competing without having to put in the actual work it takes to be competitive.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 08, 2013, 06:27:49 PM
When a rider reaches the age of 30, is he not allowed to be a good rider anymore?

This actually nails what I have a problem with: the fact that all these folks in support of a vet class seem to either not believe they are "good" enough of a rider anymore to just enter a class straight up based on their skill level, or that they want to be in some fixed class that gives them the feeling of competing without having to put in the actual work it takes to be competitive.


There's a wide gap between novice and expert, so if a class exists in which someone feels they aren't either sandbagging the novice class, or wasting people's time in expert...they're gonna go there.  In 2011 at JoMoPro, Rad Dad entered Vet AND Intermediate, because they're the same skill level.  He took 2nd in Vet and 1st in Intermediate, which drives the point home.

I am in agreement at this point that there should be no age limit involved in a class.  If there's any good that has come out of this, maybe that's it.  Maybe they should bring back intermediate if it's feasible, but since getting good turnout for contests is difficult, I can see how it might not be.  In which case, we would simply have to bite the bullet and move up to expert instead of pouncing on the novices.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 08, 2013, 08:01:17 PM
I'm curious how many 30 year old riders there really are in Vet?  I know the Chicago crew had a strong group of vets (6 riders, myself included) but with the exception of 1 guy we are all over 40, not over 30.  In Anderson I know a lot of the class there was over 40 or boarderline 40. 
Maybe the criteria should be changed to 35 and over.
  NOT because of Steve, but that seems to be the majority of the group regardless, and it might keep a few of the really good younger guys in the proper classes.
Afterall, 40 is the new 30 right?
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: fer40 on March 09, 2013, 12:03:05 AM
vet class should be 40 I am 43  and at 30 nothing hurt, after 40 everything hurt my back my nees my shulder my wrist my foot , that make u take things slow at 30 u could be a A1 athlete still and I try to ride every day
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Stubbleduck43 on March 10, 2013, 01:24:36 AM
Ok, what if a person just decides, "Hey I think I'm just going to skip the novice, vet, and expert class because I'm that good."  Well, somehow they get to the pro class and can't even hold a candle to the riders in this class.  They place last in a pro comp and throw a fit and throw their bike against the wall and storm off.  Am I thinking in reverse on this?  Maybe I should start a "reverse" controversy thread.  What a joke....
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: wookie on March 11, 2013, 12:59:19 AM
Organizers should take a minute to review the rider list and perhaps have a  few quick off the record discussions with a few guys regarding appropriate classes.  Making a few suggestions and hope the riders take the concerns to heart and make the right choices.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Bradlandr74 on March 11, 2013, 04:03:09 PM
Assuming vet classes survive...
no need to adjust age limit, IMO
the body can feel it at ~30
not just 40+

BR,
B


Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 11, 2013, 06:52:44 PM
IMO competitions should be determined by skill level and not age.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Bradlandr74 on March 11, 2013, 09:05:01 PM
 :beer: lol - excellent subject title!
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: SurfonFlatland on March 13, 2013, 11:39:54 PM

veteran |ˈvetərən; ˈvetrən|
noun: a person who has had long experience in a particular field


The criteria to enter veteran is 30 and up.  The facts that Steve has been in the sport just as long as the other veteran riders and is over the age of 30 qualifies him to ride in the vet class.  His skill has zero bearing on his qualification.  He won, fair and square.
There is no argument to this.  You're upset because he spent his time in the sport progressing and pushing for a high level of riding, and took those skills to a competition where others of or older than the age of 30 were COMPETING for validation of skill.  The judges decided that he had the best skill.
Instead of griping about Steve's success, become an adult and understand the criteria.  Be mad at the organization, but not a rider who simply abided by the rules set by the governing body.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: black aspirin on March 14, 2013, 06:14:45 AM

veteran |ˈvetərən; ˈvetrən|
noun: a person who has had long experience in a particular field


The criteria to enter veteran is 30 and up.  The facts that Steve has been in the sport just as long as the other veteran riders and is over the age of 30 qualifies him to ride in the vet class.  His skill has zero bearing on his qualification.  He won, fair and square.
There is no argument to this.  You're upset because he spent his time in the sport progressing and pushing for a high level of riding, and took those skills to a competition where others of or older than the age of 30 were COMPETING for validation of skill.  The judges decided that he had the best skill.
Instead of griping about Steve's success, become an adult and understand the criteria.  Be mad at the organization, but not a rider who simply abided by the rules set by the governing body.

I posted the criteria put forth by AMFLAT, and it is not simply hinged on age.  If it were, then several pros and experts could enter Veteran, making the entire class useless.  Actually read what the class entails, which in every other circumstance, is well-understood by the people who have consistently entered the Vet class.  If you think it's cool to have expert/pro level tricks and avoid the rest of the people on the same level, only to collect an easy win, then perhaps you should enter the novice class in the next competition, and use the same rationale for doing so.  I could do the same thing for an easy win, but I would rather bump up and lose badly than sandbag people who are way below my skill-level.  You do what makes you sleep at night.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: dan4130 on March 14, 2013, 07:01:38 AM
i dont care anymore ...........i retired from contests   .........no  fun to me anymore
i rather do bmx shows ..............ya have fun at voodoo
we are doing a festival that weekend

'southern bmx stunt show'
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: johnu773 on March 14, 2013, 03:03:09 PM
i've said it before but here it goes again...
"If he can look himself in the mirror and be proud of entering vet even after he was told he should be in expert (jomopro 2012) so be it.   Thats something he has to deal with, not us." (I find no pride in it though)
I have no beefs with him.  He followed all the rules and rode well.
I think the issue more than anything is that Steve does not see himself or his riding in the same light we do.   Maybe someone should tape him riding and build his self confidence a little bit. 
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: wolverines on March 14, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
I skimmed though most of this yet how did the others in vet class feel about it?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on March 14, 2013, 05:42:30 PM
Is there a video that shows all the Vet runs anywhere for comparison purposes/sheer watching pleasure?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 18, 2013, 07:37:05 AM
Vet Class riders are supposed to be guys over 30 who are above novice level but not yet experts.  That is pretty clear on AmFlat.  Let me interpret that for everyone one more time:  These are supposed to be intermediate level riders over 30.  Age IS NOT the only criteria for this class.  Steve is a badass rider who I admire greatly, but he is in the wrong class.  At JoMoPro last year he would have won expert easily.  Not only are his tricks amazing, but he is consistent as hell too!  One of his runs had no-handed two-footed turbine deathtruck combos, turbined crackpacker combos, etc...  At JoMoPro he would have beaten some of the pro's if he had entered Pro.  Is he over 30?  Yes.  Is he an intermediate rider?  No.  This is not a diss on Steve.  I'm just stating the obvious.

I talked with him a bit and he seems to be a super nice guy.  His English seemed a bit broken so I just assumed that he might have entered the wrong class by accident.  He wasn't practicing at all during Vet practice and when they called his name out for his run he hadn't warmed up at all.  He seemed shocked that it was his time to ride.  His bike was sitting upside down amongst a sea of other bikes.  After he understood that it was his time to compete, he picked his bike up and got on the floor.  It was amazing to watch actually.  I wish I could get out there and ride like that with no warmup at all! 

Maybe the rules for Vet Class should be a little more clear at contests.  If people have a problem with age being one of the defining characteristics of a class, the just do away with the Vet Class and bring back an Intermediate Class.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: 2flat2furious on March 20, 2013, 07:08:39 AM
In 3 years I will enter vet. How bout dem apples.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 20, 2013, 11:09:05 AM
Good luck trying to beat Steve!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 20, 2013, 06:16:38 PM
Good luck trying to beat Steve!

^ +1 lol!
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Stubbleduck43 on March 21, 2013, 03:33:06 AM
I thought this sport was all for fun?  The last comp I entered, I haven't ridden in months prior.  I just entered because I wanted to support Chris and all he does.  I could give a rats ass who won.  It was all about fun to me.  I think that's the way it should be...
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: PSchoolen on March 21, 2013, 10:38:05 PM
I am guilty of creating the vet class for Jomopro and the DK contest I organized. The decision to add vet was in response to what I was hearing from a lot of my customers and friends. Riders 30 and older who because of family and career did not get to ride as much as they used to. They still had a desire to go to contests and compete but did not feel comfortable entering a beginner or novice class with much younger riders and with skills seemingly above that class but not expert nor the time to commit to being an expert level rider. Essentially a more relaxed class for intermediate level older riders. This demographic is a huge part of flatland and adding this class to events was part of an effort to boost contest attendance. It worked for Jomopro and the DK event and the class has become stronger in numbers with each event.

With that said, Steve Bergeron does not meet the criteria for the vet class. Last year at Jomopro I congratulated him on his win and let him know I was impressed with his riding and he didnt belong in the Vet class. Steve, you are rad. Move up to expert at least.

Do we need this class? I think so. Anything we can do to get more riders at events is a bonus for flatland. The typical rider that meets the Vet class criteria has more disposable income than the average rider and has an easier time financially making it to contests. So lets give them a place at contests they feel comfortable competing in and get them to go to these events. If you see it from an organizers point of view you will see that every entry fee you get makes it that much easier to put together a decent pro purse and pay for all of the other expenses related to putting on a contest.

Periodically certain classes need to be added or dropped depending on the needs of the sport. In the late 80s so many riders were showing up to contests that it had to be broken down by 2yr age groups and and 3 different skill levels within those age groups. We dont have those attendance numbers anymore so the current contests are done by skill level and that works just fine. That may change in time. The Vets class is a slowly growing but successful class and I hope we can keep it around. No Steve Bergeron though! :)
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Mark McGrade on March 22, 2013, 12:35:39 PM
Patrick, I totally agree with everything you said but why call it the 'Vet" class? That's where the confusion is with a lot of riders. Why not call it what it really is...an Intermediate class?
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: rick macdonald on March 22, 2013, 01:40:28 PM
Yup, just like Pat said:  "so the current contests are done by skill level and that works just fine."
 
Since there aren't a whole bunch of very young riders, it turns out that that many of the intermediates are older riders...so no problem!
 
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 22, 2013, 04:30:39 PM
So Steve is going to have to compete in the Expert Class now.  "How bout dem apples!"
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: OSD on March 25, 2013, 01:56:50 AM
I can't speak for the other contests but as far as the Toronto Veteran event goes...
 
Steve B. won the event this year. Tony S. won the event last year ( and the overall AmFlat title for the year in that class ). Steve was entered in Vet last year in the same class/contest and people have forgotten that he didn't win. Both guys are awesome.... I'm personally glad to see them both still compete.
 
All riders were judged on the same criteria. One guy was better than the other guy on that particular day. Wanna do better? Check on the categories being judged, dial your stuff in for maximum pointage, and do your best. Most important thing to do... ride, rage and have fun.
 
OSD
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatgod on March 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
What I don't get is why do the older riders feel so insecure about competing against younger people? So what? They would be competing against younger riders if they entered pro, would they not? What's the difference?

Let's all admit that age basically has nothing to do with it. It's all about skill level.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: letsgo on March 30, 2013, 03:44:52 PM
I rode in the Vet Class at Jomo and Steve was in my class.  He is a nice guy and a good rider.  It makes me want to ride harder. 


Steve -  Stay in Vet class with us.  Maybe people will stick around to watch us with talent like you and Rad Dad.
Title: Re: Prepare for controversy
Post by: Flatland Fanatic on March 30, 2013, 04:07:29 PM
We need more Vets to pre-register for the Voodoo Jam!  I would love to see a class of 20 riders or more.  This contest is not one to miss.  The Pro Class is STACKED!!!  It will be awesome watching riders from all over the world killing it!  So Vets, go to the Website and pre-register now!