Global-flat.com Board

English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 12:05:39 AM

Title: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 12:05:39 AM
Here are a few photos of the Modern Bikes FLATLAND frame designs w/ specs. It's just a PREVIEW, so that's why it's very dark, no decals,etc. But what you can see is the Enclosed Dropouts which is the highlight of the frame:  The advantages of enclosed dropouts are they are stronger than open dropouts, they won't pinch like open dropouts will when the wheel is slammed. Plus, they  don't get hung up on things, and easier to set up the rear end slammed without struggling to get the chain on: http://modernbikesbmx.blogspot.com/2012/09/modern-bikes-flatland-frame-prototype.html (http://modernbikesbmx.blogspot.com/2012/09/modern-bikes-flatland-frame-prototype.html)
*Specs:
OX Platinum Chromoly Tubing
19" Top Tube
Mid BB
Integrated Heat Tube
Removable Brake Hardware
75 Head Tube
71 Seat Tube
13-13.5" Chainstay
Enclosed Dropouts -3/8"
5.5" Standover Height
11.5"  BB Height
Under 4lbs.

What do you like, what would you change, what don't you like? Our company is all about the riders and all feedback, comments, suggestions will be considered. You help us make this frame better.
This is the prototype so anything can change. Our rider Isaiah Jordan will be testing it over the next few months:


               
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/JAYSON_718/ModernBikesFlatlandFrameProto1.jpg)

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/JAYSON_718/ModernBikesFlatlandFrameProto2.jpg)


Thanks!
Ps: I am not advertising because I'm not selling anything. This is for discussion and to exchange ideas.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: rideflat43 on September 12, 2012, 12:50:40 AM
GOOD LOOKING FRAME
SEEMS A LITTLE LONG FOR ME
I DON'T KNOW BUT IT SEEMS THAT WAY!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: out~riding on September 12, 2012, 01:00:48 AM
Closed dropouts will limit the freecoaster selection.. There's really not a lot of advantages of having it closed..
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: rideflat43 on September 12, 2012, 01:03:09 AM
NOTICED THAT
WTF
YEAH CHANGE THAT!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 01:18:24 AM
Haha!
Well there are a few. Stronger than open dropouts, wont pinch, & if you slam your wheel it's alot easier to install. So far there are two freecoasters on the market that have female axles. And I believe soon that there will be more. I have also been emailing freecoaster companies about it.
Instead of the Enclosed Dropouts what would you suggest? Something other than open dropouts with a few holes in them.
Mutt...I mean rideflat43, it has a 19 inch tt. Do you ride a smaller tt?
I'm thinking about doing a short tt around 19", a medium 19.5" or so & a  long tt about 20.5". And these frames will be as strong as our PARK frame. I won't sacrifice strength for looks and light weight & won't make something heavy and unstylish. It will be a combination of both. So, every frame we make will be strong enough to ride anything and still be just as light as the latest flat frames on the market today.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 12, 2012, 01:26:17 AM
I mean this with the greatest respect, but I don't think that design is ready to go to prototype yet.

And as discussed the closed dropouts will limit you to female coasters only .... Which don't work properly most of the time.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 01:36:42 AM
Why isn't this ready for prototype yet?
I know the limitation to female axle only but which freecoaster(s) do not work properly?

If you guys could go into detail on why wouldn't something work or anything else it will help alot.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 12, 2012, 01:47:16 AM
Can you post up the 2D blueprints with tube specs?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 01:53:06 AM
Like I said this is only a preview. Those will be released later on, close to or at the time of production.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: kabirun on September 12, 2012, 02:35:01 AM
I love the geometry, particularly the longer CS. The looks of the frame are even better.

As for the close dropouts, yes-- I only use nankai and that'd be a problem. Second, and less important, I personally don't like the integrated seat clamp, but that is just me.

A 19.25" TT option would be amazing


K
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: thestraw on September 12, 2012, 02:53:06 AM
i rode a st martin, a mankind alive and a quamen chyphyr, all of which are narrow diamond frames(which i do like the look of) and i broke the sh*t out of each of 'em in the exact same place, near the head tube.  the down tubes buckled on 2 of them and the tt on the quamen.  would a gusset eliminate this problem?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on September 12, 2012, 03:12:22 AM
I have a frame by PiR made with closed dropouts. While I agree its a neat idea it is as many said already, it is a limitation on what coasters you can use. I have a femaled nankai that I had machined, but most people aren't gonna spend the time to get custom made axles just so they can use it with a specific frame. I got it for the sheer novelty  and while I think its neat, its really not needed. If this is going to be a mass produced frame gotta give it full options rather than limiting it with only closed dropouts.

Also why did you decide to go with a mid bb instead of spanish?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on September 12, 2012, 03:40:59 AM

Sorry but that sucks and you will loose interest as people will like your frame have the money to buy it but wont as they dont want to get a female freecoaster.

Why give people the choice in brakes or no brakes but they can only use a certain freecoaster???



Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 05:12:23 AM
I love the geometry, particularly the longer CS. The looks of the frame are even better.

As for the close dropouts, yes-- I only use nankai and that'd be a problem. Second, and less important, I personally don't like the integrated seat clamp, but that is just me.

A 19.25" TT option would be amazing


K

I appreciate the feedback & comments. There will be more tt options.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 05:15:49 AM
i rode a st martin, a mankind alive and a quamen chyphyr, all of which are narrow diamond frames(which i do like the look of) and i broke the sh*t out of each of 'em in the exact same place, near the head tube.  the down tubes buckled on 2 of them and the tt on the quamen.  would a gusset eliminate this problem?

For them possibly. How & who these frames will be built by and the type of material will not require gussets but the strength problem with those frames in those particular areas will be discussed.
What were you doing when those broke? And the down tube buckled on 2 of em?! WOW.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 05:25:18 AM
I have a frame by PiR made with closed dropouts. While I agree its a neat idea it is as many said already, it is a limitation on what coasters you can use. I have a femaled nankai that I had machined, but most people aren't gonna spend the time to get custom made axles just so they can use it with a specific frame. I got it for the sheer novelty  and while I think its neat, its really not needed. If this is going to be a mass produced frame gotta give it full options rather than limiting it with only closed dropouts.

Also why did you decide to go with a mid bb instead of spanish?


Thanks for the feedback. I think there will be more selection of female axle freecoasters soon. I wouldn't have made it with enclosed dropouts if I didn't think there would be.
Full options is a possibility. Most seem to want it now.
I decided to go with  Mid because it's more widely used on frames & it's stronger. Would you suggest using a Spanish bb for any reason?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 05:28:09 AM

Sorry but that sucks and you will loose interest as people will like your frame have the money to buy it but wont as they dont want to get a female freecoaster.

Why give people the choice in brakes or no brakes but they can only use a certain freecoaster???




Thanks the comment.  Do you like the frame without the Enclosed Dropouts?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 12, 2012, 07:59:25 AM
Josh,
I never want to discourage anyone who is interested in cycle design and looking to create.

However, by your drawings and questions regarding market feedback - I think you are currently jumping the gun with your abilities and understanding of design (at the moment). I am not saying you cant do it, but I can see areas where I think it shows an infancy in your understanding. And that if you ever did choose this as a profession in the future, and were to look back at "past work" - you would be able to see this too.

But I applaud your resilience shown on these forums.

Predicting the future in regards to what parts riders will use is obviously important, especially when thinking along the lines of frame design. But if you are simply planning to go to Standard Byke co. and say, build me this frame and I will re-decal and re-brand them to create my own "company" - I fear you are doomed to fail from the start. As many frame builders like standard have key aspects/detailing to their frames which are often small forms of design signatures if you will. Partially relating to "style" - but also much of the time relating to making life simpler for the builder and reducing cost.

Previously I had asked if you could upload a 2D blueprint, so I could get an idea of to what degree of detailing and information you were planning to send the builder, as this is extremely important. This is not just a drawing that shows TT measurements, but also key other information like tube thickness, angles and so on.
Normally a frame blueprint n 2D usually looks something along the lines of this :
http://www.spanner.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/tibridedrawing.JPG (http://www.spanner.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/tibridedrawing.JPG)
If you have something I like this, I would love to have a look over it and help give advice in areas I may be able to.

Again, I really dont want to discourage you and will even go as far to try and help you get a better understanding of areas I think you are lacking. But I really think you are focusing to much on global feedback and not on design. So I would strongly suggest that you now reduce your reliance on customer feedback as you have enough of that, and focus more on the design aspects to see if you and your friends can think of new ideas as this is what really gets people excited as it leads to a product with the marketing power of being able to offer something that is different, and not the same old thing but with a 1/4" longer or shorter somewhere.

While your also located in the US - why not expand your understanding of frame building and sign up for these classes? http://www.bikeschool.com/classes (http://www.bikeschool.com/classes) - They offer a great insight into how frames are made and could give you a better idea of both material behavior and how it can be used.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on September 12, 2012, 08:05:43 AM
enclosed dropouts might work for street/ park bikes but for flatland? ...

not many people i know off would do grinds on a flat-specific bike as it's 1) too twitchy; 2) voids warrenty; 3) too weak and light to endear confidence.

if you said the enclosed dropouts were meant to prevent the slots from spreading open, i'll buy that as i've seen that happening with paper thin, machined internally dropouts that you find on new bikes.

have drop out slots horizontally, but enclosed? with stamped cut away lines for 14mm and 10mm of course.

female hubs might be all the rage, but till you suffer the anguish of have a broken bolt or rounded-off hex-head that is stuck in the hub that is still on the frame, you will never appreciate the beautiful simplicity of the standard 'normal' axle.

just imagining having to use a sabre saw or hack saw to cut through the harden-steel of 22mm sized lock nuts to get to the 10mm bolt, with the wheel on one side and peg on the other gives me the shivers... and remember as the dropout is enclosed, you can't use a mallet to bash the wheel out like you would with a 'normal' sloted dropout and male axle. 
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 05:32:54 PM
Josh,
I never want to discourage anyone who is interested in cycle design and looking to create.

However, by your drawings and questions regarding market feedback - I think you are currently jumping the gun with your abilities and understanding of design (at the moment). I am not saying you cant do it, but I can see areas where I think it shows an infancy in your understanding. And that if you ever did choose this as a profession in the future, and were to look back at "past work" - you would be able to see this too.


Thank you for the comments. I'm learning as I go. Plus, with the help of other companies here in the USA helping me long the way. I understand frame building pretty good imo.


Predicting the future in regards to what parts riders will use is obviously important, especially when thinking along the lines of frame design. But if you are simply planning to go to Standard Byke co. and say, build me this frame and I will re-decal and re-brand them to create my own "company" - I fear you are doomed to fail from the start. As many frame builders like standard have key aspects/detailing to their frames which are often small forms of design signatures if you will. Partially relating to "style" - but also much of the time relating to making life simpler for the builder and reducing cost.


How is it possible to know what I'm building/what Standard is building for me? This is just a preview and I have given them much more than this. I see other companies in the industry, well actually most that get other companies to make there frames. They have succeeded. But that doesn't pertain to me and determine if my company will "fail" or not? Absolutely not. You will see what are products are all about when the proto comes along. :) Which is very soon.
(I do not believe in failure. Unless you stop trying to reach your goals because of a set back then yeah that could be failure. But that's not me.)

Previously I had asked if you could upload a 2D blueprint, so I could get an idea of to what degree of detailing and information you were planning to send the builder, as this is extremely important. This is not just a drawing that shows TT measurements, but also key other information like tube thickness, angles and so on.
Normally a frame blueprint n 2D usually looks something along the lines of this :
[url]http://www.spanner.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/tibridedrawing.JPG[/url] ([url]http://www.spanner.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/tibridedrawing.JPG[/url])
If you have something I like this, I would love to have a look over it and help give advice in areas I may be able to.

Those 2D blueprints are something I will not just give out.(I know exactly what a 2D blueprint is also.) What company does that? Not many. I don't just give out my total designs that would be like saying "here, you can copy this". I'm not in this business to just give out all ideas I created and what I worked for. For someone could be looking to copy and make money. I know business.

Again, I really dont want to discourage you and will even go as far to try and help you get a better understanding of areas I think you are lacking. But I really think you are focusing to much on global feedback and not on design. So I would strongly suggest that you now reduce your reliance on customer feedback as you have enough of that, and focus more on the design aspects to see if you and your friends can think of new ideas as this is what really gets people excited as it leads to a product with the marketing power of being able to offer something that is different, and not the same old thing but with a 1/4" longer or shorter somewhere.

If you read the description of the frame you can see I'm already using material/designs that no one has ever used in flatland. If I gave out the wrong idea that I'm relying on people here to design my products I apologize to the riders. I'm not here to do that. What I'm doing is getting the majority vote and applying that to MY own designs to make a better product that will appeal to the majority. I'm looking to succeed in my company, not make the same things that are on the market today. I've listened to everyone from everywhere about product ideas. But where do I get most of my creativeness, ideas, motivation? From myself. I built this company for the riders & to make better products than what's out now. I'm not turning over my company to riders and saying "look, here you go, take it, suggest it and I'll build it." I'm getting involved with the riders to help me build what they want but still using my designs also. Tell me this, what other company has gone to the riders directly to ask them what they want? Anyone? Seems they are all about their companies and cater to there riders...That is why you still have people wanting more, wanting what these companies won't give them. But there is nothing wrong with that. I'm going my own way. And a few of ways I'm doing this is listening to the riders & progressing with my products.
If you really want to help me with frame design knowledge and tell me where I am lacking please do so. PM me. What are your credentials in frame building also?

Thank You
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: stuntnuts on September 12, 2012, 05:55:29 PM
byke you're such a dream crusher.  ;D
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 06:11:14 PM
enclosed dropouts might work for street/ park bikes but for flatland? ...

not many people i know off would do grinds on a flat-specific bike as it's 1) too twitchy; 2) voids warrenty; 3) too weak and light to endear confidence.

if you said the enclosed dropouts were meant to prevent the slots from spreading open, i'll buy that as i've seen that happening with paper thin, machined internally dropouts that you find on new bikes.

have drop out slots horizontally, but enclosed? with stamped cut away lines for 14mm and 10mm of course.

female hubs might be all the rage, but till you suffer the anguish of have a broken bolt or rounded-off hex-head that is stuck in the hub that is still on the frame, you will never appreciate the beautiful simplicity of the standard 'normal' axle.

just imagining having to use a sabre saw or hack saw to cut through the harden-steel of 22mm sized lock nuts to get to the 10mm bolt, with the wheel on one side and peg on the other gives me the shivers... and remember as the dropout is enclosed, you can't use a mallet to bash the wheel out like you would with a 'normal' sloted dropout and male axle. 

Hey, thanks for the feedback.
What I was talking about in regards of holding up to anything, I'm not designing a street/park frame. I'm saying it will be strong enough to take all of that. If you've seen the PARK frame, this frame is a shrunken down version of it. But, with different specs. We have tested the PARK frame extensively had had no problems with it. So applying this to a flatland frame will only make it stronger. Plus, we are going to test everything before we put it out to the market.
Yes, enclosed dropouts are stronger than normal ones. and they will not pinch or spread open. (I do not believe in paper thin, holey dropouts.) :)
Sure, I can have stamped cut away lines for 14mm and 10mm. If others want that I will do it. But, it's an add on and it costs. But if more people would want it I'll do it. I've been thinking of this also for a while plus stamping measurements of the chainstay lengths on the dropouts. I know alot of people complain about how far, how much, where there wheel is in regards to the length of the rear end. Well, I think this will help out some with having exact measurements. Plus, the rear axle slammed will be where it should be. Not for example, 13" chainstay length slammed and it be 13.2, because the end of the dropout slot determines the rear end length and not the axle.The center of a 3/8" axle on this frame will be right at 13".
Sounds like you might could use some tips on how to properly install female axles... you listed some pretty ruff ways of making an axle break and getting it out. ;) kidding about the first sentience.
Have you seen or have you had personal experiences with axles breaking or striping? And how did it happen? I would appreciate this info. As I need to know this for further improvements, if needed, for this frame. I've never had a stripped or broken a female axle as of yet. I install my parts with care. I'm not saying that it can't happen either. 
I will discuss this further with my manufacture and come up with ideas on how this could be resolved or prevented if it ever happens.
I appreciate your concerns. Thanks.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
byke you're such a dream crusher.  ;D
haha
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 06:20:06 PM
Thanks guys for the comments, feedback, suggestions so far. Keep them coming! Positive or negative. The all help.

I recently found out that the Eclat & Ezra Freecoaster will come with female axles. And Nankai doesn't make freecoaster anymore???
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: EZChris on September 12, 2012, 06:59:31 PM
Did someone just as Byke what his credentials in frame building were?




Hilarious.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 07:10:31 PM
Did someone just as Byke what his credentials in frame building were?
Hilarious.

I do not know much about the guy or what he does. Do you know EZChris?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 12, 2012, 07:31:27 PM
Pm sent, so their is no drama or bad feelings.

Just for the record, Ox platinum has been used many times before in flat related products.
For instance all the Standard Tao's that cracked at the seat tubes were made of ox platinum.

As for closed dropouts, again. its been done on flat frames before.
Jad Sherman comes to mind.

Either way good luck, I really don't want to discourage you.
Maybe its better for me to keep mum and let you grow through your own actions.

Either way I truly wish you good luck.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
I know about Standard using the tubing for their past flatland frames. But that's the only instance other than the shaman. As for the cracked tubes that will be discussed with my manufacture on how to prevent this.
The Jad Sherman was a flatland frame? Are they still in business and being sold? I'll have a look into this.
By no means are you discouraging me whether intentionally or not! :)

Thank You!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: thestraw on September 12, 2012, 09:04:49 PM
i rode a st martin, a mankind alive and a quamen chyphyr, all of which are narrow diamond frames(which i do like the look of) and i broke the sh*t out of each of 'em in the exact same place, near the head tube.  the down tubes buckled on 2 of them and the tt on the quamen.  would a gusset eliminate this problem?

For them possibly. How & who these frames will be built by and the type of material will not require gussets but the strength problem with those frames in those particular areas will be discussed.
What were you doing when those broke? And the down tube buckled on 2 of em?! WOW.
dude i was just shredding
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Revig on September 12, 2012, 09:21:08 PM

Old topics about these subjet are on that board,
for example: http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=32094.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=32094.0)

and stop using a "blogspot" website, make your own, that will be usefull for your image now and later
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 12, 2012, 11:48:58 PM
Thanks, Revig for the comments. lol
I'm not Standard. This is a Modern Bikes thread! Thanks! :) But very informative also! I suggest others read it also.
The site will come later when I start selling the frames.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: jimib on September 12, 2012, 11:54:07 PM
Joshua I think it looks pretty good. I like the 19.25 tt, the Fenix I'm on has a 19.25 and it feels pretty good. I'm not sure about the enclosed drop outs for the same reason, I have a Nankai, so if I change to a frame with enclosed drop outs I'll also have to drop $ for a new hub or new wheel. It seems the majority roll on Nankai's or KHE's so you would want to keep that in mind. I've seen your park frame in person and it is sweet, you seem to be on the right track, if the flatland frame turns out to be as nice as it, your gold!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 12:21:49 AM
Thanks Jimi! I like that Fenix also! We'll see about the enclosed dropouts. Ezra and Eclat are getting ready to release their freecoasters. They both will come with the option of female axle and hopefully a kit also. And the Ezra can be used as a cassette also! I don't know how that works but I'm going to find out when they come out!  ;D I don't know if you've seen them yet?
Who knows, I might look at those freecoasters (nankai & KHE) and see what would be needed to turn them into female axle.  :)

 
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: metalbmxer on September 13, 2012, 12:28:43 AM
Simply shrinking a park frame won't suffice. Flatland related stress (lateral and fatigue) wears out the frame different than a street frame. Seattube-toptube junction comes to mind where lots of bikes crack.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 12:37:49 AM
I'm not saying it will be exactly as the PARK frame. There will be extra attention put to those places you and others have suggested. Thanks.



This frame is getting better as we speak! Thank You! Also, reading that thread about Standard Bykes was very informative on what people want. That's what I'm trying to do here!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: xsjadorider on September 13, 2012, 03:23:54 AM
i think it looks great and i think the enclosed dropouts are a nice idea,  id rather use a female coaster (i do now) than a male axle but thats just my opinion
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on September 13, 2012, 05:18:10 AM
not to be nasty but if your in the BMX market and dont know much about byke, how long have you been in the BMX industry?


Have you seen his last two frames he designed? Oh and the swiss miss KHE bars too  :-*


He is the best help around. He may not be a welder (but knows tonnes about the properties though) but he knows alot about bicycle engineering.


He loves BMX and will do alot to help others. yes you are seeing it from a business side but someone with his knowledge and years of input onto BMX I would jump for his help.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Jesa on September 13, 2012, 10:27:44 AM
This frame has a major flaw, the fact that you would have to buy a new freecoaster if you wanted this frame. (that is if you didnt already have female coaster) In my opinion flatland specific frames are already strong enough without closed dropouts. Ive seen riders break almost everything, but never the rear dropouts.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 13, 2012, 12:19:31 PM
Hey guys,
My past comments seem to have gotten myself into a situation where my my views as a poster on this thread seem to have taken on a angle that I am not comfortable with.

I dont want to be the Simon Cowell of flatland.... Maybe one of Dragons Den .... ;) 

I love all aspects of design (even bad attempts).

I was hoping to comment on this thread like anyone else, but it seems that my past post evoked something negative which wasnt my intention. And now more focus is placed on myself and "status" rather than the part being discussed.

Josh has sent me a couple of PM's and I have replied .... and thats it - we are on different planets.
Given this thread seems to be more about me now, I am going to try and refrain from commenting on it.

I will reiterate and say I don't think its ready for prototyping - but thats it.




Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on September 13, 2012, 03:09:58 PM
I dont want to be the Simon Cowell of flatland.... Maybe one of Dragons Den .... ;) 



I always thought Simon Cowell knows sh*t all about music, hes just a rich man who owes a label.


Back to thread.


About the frame... Me personally dont like the closed dropouts and the idea of the 3 sizes sounds good.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 07:27:19 PM
i think it looks great and i think the enclosed dropouts are a nice idea,  id rather use a female coaster (i do now) than a male axle but thats just my opinion
Thanks xsjadorider!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 07:28:56 PM
not to be nasty but if your in the BMX market and dont know much about byke, how long have you been in the BMX industry?


Have you seen his last two frames he designed? Oh and the swiss miss KHE bars too  :-*


He is the best help around. He may not be a welder (but knows tonnes about the properties though) but he knows alot about bicycle engineering.


He loves BMX and will do alot to help others. yes you are seeing it from a business side but someone with his knowledge and years of input onto BMX I would jump for his help.

Hey, I don't know his name other than byke. I appreciate the info.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 07:33:05 PM
I dont want to be the Simon Cowell of flatland.... Maybe one of Dragons Den .... ;) 



I always thought Simon Cowell knows sh*t all about music, hes just a rich man who owes a label.


Back to thread.


About the frame... Me personally dont like the closed dropouts and the idea of the 3 sizes sounds good.

When it is near test completion & goes to the market, there will be more positives than what I explained for the enclosed dropouts. Remember this is only a preview... i've only released a few details on the frame. Thanks.
I've also been thinking about doing some female axles for the freecoaster that don't have them.
Wouldn't You like those free with this frame! :)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: mnbmxkid1996 on September 13, 2012, 08:11:56 PM
I think best toptube options are 18.5 19 and 19.5 seem like the average sizes now to be a unique frame fnd the most popular frames use those toptubes and make it better and I agree with everone on the dropouts the only hub I knowis infinty which is heavy and khe which I much more expensive I know aot who have the ufree and seem to be the freecoaster in use now also this being a flat frame I don't think going open dropouts wll sacriface strength
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 08:21:32 PM
I think best toptube options are 18.5 19 and 19.5 seem like the average sizes now to be a unique frame fnd the most popular frames use those toptubes and make it better and I agree with everone on the dropouts the only hub I knowis infinty which is heavy and khe which I much more expensive I know aot who have the ufree and seem to be the freecoaster in use now also this being a flat frame I don't think going open dropouts wll sacriface strength

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll consider the TT sizes. Ezra & Elcat are defiantly coming out with female freecoaster. And from what I hear, Colony might be also? If it has to do with strength issues I will not pass it up. Enclosed dropouts are stronger than enclosed. I would rather have enclosed dropouts than thin holey dropouts or similar. That's just what I would do. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 13, 2012, 08:24:52 PM
My version of this frame will be a 20.5". If many want that I will make it. But I'm just letting you know that's what size I'll be testing.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 16, 2012, 01:41:17 AM
Looks like these female axle freecoasters are out now:
KHE Greyhound
Stranger Coastersarus
Infinity Flow
Eclat Blind
Ezra
Colony

Revenge Industry (prototype)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on September 16, 2012, 08:55:36 AM
stranger coastersarus and infinity flow are probly the same. are semi-female (hermaphrodite?) - have shorten 14mm axle sticking out like those 10mm mtb's skewer types hubs; can't use enclosed dropouts with them.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 16, 2012, 09:17:18 AM
Many companies now are starting to state that the coasters that feature a ladyboy axle are for peg less riders.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on September 16, 2012, 10:53:18 AM
so the infinity flow and coastersarus are termed "ladyboys" now? and why are they recommand for pegless only? issues?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 16, 2012, 11:35:26 AM
I think Ladyboy is a great way to describe this type of coaster.

I believe the issue with the ladyboy coasters is they use a 10mm axle which is weaker than that of a 14mm axle for street ...  so for companies marketing their coasters - they want as little problems as possible. So recommending mini race cranks to a fat bloke is like recommending an chick coaster to a street rider. And also because ladyboy coasters have a 3pc design, it leaves greater issues regarding tolerances and play which is never a good thing for coasters (compared to a bloke axle).

Obviously Ladyboy coasters offer greater strength than chick coasters - which I personally believe will become less popular over time due to odd issues.

But when coasters have gone from blokes to chicks in terms of strength and reliability - it really makes me question if such changes will also result in a coaster that acts up and is temperamental lots of the time.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 16, 2012, 05:00:23 PM
stranger coastersarus and infinity flow are probly the same. are semi-female (hermaphrodite?) - have shorten 14mm axle sticking out like those 10mm mtb's skewer types hubs; can't use enclosed dropouts with them.

Those aren't too female then. lol Why do they do this when you can have a regular axle? Isn't that all it is only the 14mm axle is hollowed out for 3/8" bolts?lol Regular female axles are just as strong...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 16, 2012, 07:43:36 PM
stranger coastersarus and infinity flow are probly the same. are semi-female (hermaphrodite?) - have shorten 14mm axle sticking out like those 10mm mtb's skewer types hubs; can't use enclosed dropouts with them.

Those aren't too female then. lol Why do they do this when you can have a regular axle? Isn't that all it is only the 14mm axle is hollowed out for 3/8" bolts?lol Regular female axles are just as strong...

This is because the design isn't looking to create a stronger axle in this particular instance.

The design itself is looking to reduce issues problems in regards to the coasters performance.
As without this extra support of the main part of the coaster body being supported in the dropouts, it can lead to variables that effect the performance of the coaster.

And a coaster that doesn't work properly is more problematic than anything else such as Axle strength ... which doesnt usually effect flat riders in the same way it does street riders.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 16, 2012, 08:54:52 PM
I found this searching around on this forum: http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=53023.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=53023.0)
View the last post. Anyone know if they are still coming out with the full female 3/8" Infinity Freecoaster?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on September 17, 2012, 07:23:07 AM
i think it's the st. martin's darwin freecoaster - heavier and $10 more expensive.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: getzfafive on September 17, 2012, 05:06:17 PM
I don't think you could use enclosed dropouts with any ladyboy axle free-coasters.  It would be too hard to spread the frame to get the axle in.


I have a Stranger Coastersaurus at the moment and I can't spread my frame to make the wheel fall out of the dropouts.  I still have to slide it out like a normal axle.



Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 19, 2012, 04:43:15 AM
i think it's the st. martin's darwin freecoaster - heavier and $10 more expensive.

Looks Like it is.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 19, 2012, 04:44:41 AM
I don't think you could use enclosed dropouts with any ladyboy axle free-coasters.  It would be too hard to spread the frame to get the axle in.


I have a Stranger Coastersaurus at the moment and I can't spread my frame to make the wheel fall out of the dropouts.  I still have to slide it out like a normal axle.

Thanks for that info. There are alot of full female axles that are out now or are coming soon. So that's a good thing! :) 
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 30, 2012, 06:18:19 PM
Found the Cult Freecoaster too!
http://www.free-coaster.com/?page_id=781 (http://www.free-coaster.com/?page_id=781)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 30, 2012, 06:27:19 PM

(http://www.free-coaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Cult-Prototype.jpg)


That doesnt look like a female axle ?
Unless its only a female on one side? which would render it useless with enclosed dropouts anyway.
I dont believe its in production yet either.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on September 30, 2012, 10:29:52 PM
" Also, you can see they’ve gone with a female style axle, which seems to be the way of the future for bmx."
Check the first two pics in the link.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on September 30, 2012, 10:36:26 PM
" Also, you can see they’ve gone with a female style axle, which seems to be the way of the future for bmx."
Check the first two pics in the link.

The first 2 pics don't really show anything to be honest.
And by the looks of the pics, they look like they are Ladyboy axles.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: SurfonFlatland on October 02, 2012, 07:12:05 AM
Aside from the drop outs, the frame looks like any other frame coming out now.  Modern Bikes appears to be an appropriate company name.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 02, 2012, 07:38:34 AM
Female axles are not the future. I love female axles but saying they are the future is a huge stretch. It is a nice alternative, if anything. They have been around forever and have caught on a bit, but you have some people who don't trust it on the rear at all. I stated before in this thread I have these dropouts on my custom PiR frame and while it is nice it is more trouble than it is worth. KHE female replacements are currently a pain in the ass to get (many people have already broken or stripped their greyhound axles), and modifying nankai bamboo axles isnt cheap either. I recently snapped my inner female axle for my bamboo and have to run a front wheel in the rear because I can't afford a new female axle ($40 for new axle as well as labor for female conversion) and not many people have spare female backup hubs.

I am also curious to know where you get this idea that the closed dropout is stronger, couldn't you just make the dropout thicker if your concerned about dropout strength?


Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on October 02, 2012, 09:03:35 AM
@deadwing:

wow, am really surprise that you snapped the modded 14mm bamboo axle. can you elaborate where it broke at and speculate why; and to (if it's not too much trouble) post pixs?

thanks.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on October 02, 2012, 09:15:57 AM
Female axles are not the future. I love female axles but saying they are the future is a huge stretch. It is a nice alternative, if anything. They have been around forever and have caught on a bit, but you have some people who don't trust it on the rear at all. I stated before in this thread I have these dropouts on my custom PiR frame and while it is nice it is more trouble than it is worth. KHE female replacements are currently a pain in the ass to get (many people have already broken or stripped their greyhound axles), and modifying nankai bamboo axles isnt cheap either. I recently snapped my inner female axle for my bamboo and have to run a front wheel in the rear because I can't afford a new female axle ($40 for new axle as well as labor for female conversion) and not many people have spare female backup hubs.

I am also curious to know where you get this idea that the closed dropout is stronger, couldn't you just make the dropout thicker if your concerned about dropout strength?




A very interesting response.
One area I think that is often over looked in regards to closed dropouts is the role that an axle plays in regards to it sitting in a dropout.

One of the big selling points of enclosed dropouts is it helps prevent the dropouts from crushing by having a little extra metal at the end of the dropout. But how greatly does this differ from having a axle there? Or even a chain tensioner with the plop that sits inside the axle line?

We often look at the merits of design but often overlook other aspects.
If a steel rod sandwiched between 2 pieces of plate doesn't prevent the dropouts from crushing, then maybe the design of the actual dropout is wrong to begin with and will lead to flagging instead of crushing.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 02, 2012, 02:10:41 PM
@deadwing:

wow, am really surprise that you snapped the modded 14mm bamboo axle. can you elaborate where it broke at and speculate why; and to (if it's not too much trouble) post pixs?

thanks.

The axle cracked around the part where the threads meet the smooth part without threads. I was working on some nose manuals and the constant slamming most likely snapped it. One of the parts that snapped have the driver cone and locknut stuck on it. I am not exactly sure how it broke. I have had it for 4 years with no problems, I honestly had no idea how it broke, freak accident sort of thing. I still think female axles are nice. Ill get a pic of it up sometime.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 02, 2012, 04:25:56 PM
Aside from the drop outs, the frame looks like any other frame coming out now.  Modern Bikes appears to be an appropriate company name.

When it comes out you'll see the difference. :) thanks.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 02, 2012, 05:25:57 PM
Female axles are not the future. I love female axles but saying they are the future is a huge stretch. It is a nice alternative, if anything. They have been around forever and have caught on a bit, but you have some people who don't trust it on the rear at all. I stated before in this thread I have these dropouts on my custom PiR frame and while it is nice it is more trouble than it is worth. KHE female replacements are currently a pain in the ass to get (many people have already broken or stripped their greyhound axles), and modifying nankai bamboo axles isnt cheap either. I recently snapped my inner female axle for my bamboo and have to run a front wheel in the rear because I can't afford a new female axle ($40 for new axle as well as labor for female conversion) and not many people have spare female backup hubs.

I am also curious to know where you get this idea that the closed dropout is stronger, couldn't you just make the dropout thicker if your concerned about dropout strength?m

Hi, thanks for the comments. About the female axles being the future- the Free-coaster guy said this but I agree also.
That sucks you're having the trouble with your Bamboo hub. How did you snap the axle? I would like to see your modified Bamboo too! Sounds interesting. Send me a pic or two to my PM or here?
What I want to do is to see these axles broken and where. Do they need stronger axles/bolts? Having to modify a specific male axle to do a female's job ;) could've played a part in why it broke? Just asking. And what kind of axle/bolts were you running on that Bamboo? Chromoly or Aluminum?
Could you also let me know who the guys were who stripped out there Greyhounds, if they're on the forum? I want to talk to them about how they stripped. I noticed that they have aluminum center axles. A chromoly replacement axle would help prevent stripping...
I want to make and test out some replacement female axles...
The Enclosed Dropouts are stronger because they won't pinch like normal dropouts. Any time you cut a part out if a metal piece like a dropout it's going to be weaker. I also did some searching for the info before I even would sell them on the frame:
Rick Moliterno: "Enclosed drop outs mainly are stronger due to the closed end and how it can prevent the pinching that can happen with open drop outs and the wheel slammed."
S&M's WTF Frame comments on there Black Hole Dropouts(enclosed dropouts): Today's smaller/thinner  dropouts bend easier and flex more than ever, especially with pegs. The heat-treated Black Hole dropouts are the strongest dropouts available and still offer plenty of adjustment in the rear."
I have also ridden the 3/8" bolt 15mm center axle Odyssey hub on the PARK prototype and they did just fine. So I've actually tested them out myself also.
Thanks man!


Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 02, 2012, 06:19:50 PM
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa308/freethereal/brokenaxle.jpg)
This is the broken Nankai Bamboo Female. It cracked where the threads meet the smooth area where the clutch meets. Bolts are 3/8th 24tpi (Same as G-Sport).

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa308/freethereal/nankai.jpg)
This is the Modded Nankai, laced up. On here I have Blue 6 ti locknuts (very nice) and Blue6 ti Bolts (3/8th 24tpi w/a 14mm adapter, I had pegs with 14mm holes) which  became bent over time. Never been able to warranty them because Blue6 hasn't made 3/8th 24tpi bolts again. The cap is a Quamen deco cap drilled to 14mm (They are normally 3/8th).

The problem most people had with the greyhounds where they became stripped is where the lock nuts and the actual bolts go. Since aluminum is softer it is more prone to stripping and if its low quality aluminum it increases the chance of failure even more. KHE currently does not have any female replacements out yet. Worse part about KHE axles is if you break the spring the whole axle is shot as well. The Stranger/Greyhound street/infinity coaster has the female axle where some of the 14mm axle sits in the dropout and uses the female bolts. The part that sits in the dropouts can be trimmed down so you can run it in a 3/8th frame.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa308/freethereal/P3100017.jpg)
Here is a picture of the dropouts for the frame that PiR Malo (only frame maker I would go with) made for me. While they are nice I would say the closed dropout has little to add (if any) strength wise. Its a gimmick if anything. Dropouts can be made thicker and stronger, rather than making them thin and enclosing them. Most of the frames nowadays have ultra thin dropouts, thats why they are getting pinched and bent,not because they are not enclosed. While I think enclosing them looks wonderful, as I have stated before I think its very gimmicky and overcomplicates things.

As a one of frame I would say why the hell not, get closed dropouts. But as a production frame it seems like a bad idea due to the sole fact that there isn't replacement parts for these types of coasters, unless you have a bunch made. Nobody wants to not be able to ride because your KHE broke and your frame only can use 1 specific kind of hub. And in my case with the Nankai, nobody makes them, at all. You need a machine shop to modify a current one.But if there is any additional questions,concerns or ideas feel free to ask!


Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: out~riding on October 02, 2012, 07:02:31 PM
In the past I have also thought that a closed dropout would be cool but there are just too many disadvantages on the hub side, as mentioned already.
Unless you develop a hub (or use an existing one) that will work 100% with the dropout design it's not worth gambling with a dropout that is not completely functional.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 03, 2012, 12:44:47 AM
Thanks for the photos Deadwing.
If you notice the hubs that have broken/stripped, they have 'modified' axles or Aluminum axles, & ti bolts. Those are obviously going to break/strip a lot faster than chromoly axles. What type of material was your Bamboo axle made of? I'm sure in the near future there will be replacement axles for the female hubs. After all, they have just came out.
I'm not looking to make a thicker dropout. I'm adapting the frame to the new female hubs. And to do it with less material and added strength(enclosed) is more efficient than a thicker open dropout. You have to think about costs of the thicker dropout and how to save weight. Plus, those thick dropouts are rarely used on frames because the newer ones are more efficient.(some are just making them paper thin that they pinch easily) Also, I don't won't to put holes in them just to make them lighter because that will only weaken them... I couldn't imagine a frame with really thick open dropouts and the rest of the frame is more up to date/stronger/lighter/less material.
I really like your modifications to the Nankai hubs. Were the threads on the outside of the female axle only to hold the locknuts on? Is the axle hollow all the way through?
I will look into the costs and how to strengthen female replacement axles. For one, using chromoly instead of aluminum would be a start.
Are you still riding that frame? The enclosed dropouts look nice. You're pretty knowledgeable about modifying parts. How come you haven't made open dropouts out of your enclosed? That is, if you haven't already?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 03, 2012, 04:19:26 AM
The axle on my Bamboo was chromoly. Basically the axle without modification is hollow, and the modification the axle is cut down to just slide into the frame and the hollow part is threaded for the bolts. None of the actual 14mm part sits in the dropouts, the bolts hold it onto the dropout.

Im confused on your statement on
"Im not looking to make a thicker dropout, Im adapting the frame to the new female hubs"

1. Female hubs are nothing new, they have been around since the late 80s early 90s.
2. Adapting them to what? Female axles work just as good in a open dropout.

Ive been on my PiR frame for 2 years. The frame is still going strong, anyone who has a PiR custom will tell you its amazing quality and craftsmanship. In my near decade of riding bmx I have had zero problems with dropouts on any frame. I have the dropouts, I have been on this frame for almost 2 years and would honestly say that the closed drops have not added or taken away anything structure wise. How many flatland riders are breaking dropouts nowadays anyways?


Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 03, 2012, 04:41:45 PM
The female axles are just coming available to the market. And they are in mass production. I know they've been around but they are just now getting more and more common.
How I'm adapting to them is with the enclosed dropouts. The bolts will easily fit into the dropouts & make it easier to put your wheel in place especially if you have a slammed wheel. And they're stronger than open dropouts.
I don't know if people are breaking dropouts but they are pinching from being so thin.
What I was saying about your frame is since your having trouble with female axles you could modify the enclosed dropouts to open ones.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on October 03, 2012, 05:58:31 PM
I don't know if people are breaking dropouts but they are pinching from being so thin.


what flatlanders are pinching the ends of the dropouts? I understand street bikes from rails and such... but flatland?


And as you say in this title "flatland frame" Im sorry but it not needed for us flat riders. To me and as others have said, you are making a bad decision on only enclosed droupouts as you are making your audience only have female or shemale axles.


Oh and will this be 10mm or 14mm?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 03:11:43 AM
Haven't decided on 3/8" or 14mm. Most likely 3/8"...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on October 04, 2012, 03:32:51 AM
So your limiting your audience even more. And grinding 10mm to 14mm isnt to bad with an angle grinder on open dropouts.


With closed there will be 2 bastard end to round of. AND you cant get an angle grinder in there to make the job quicker.


And I bet your warranty wont cover if the the dropouts are cut open.


SO...


If you want his frame you need a female freecoaster and 10mm axles and if you want to have 14mm you HAVE to use a file.


You sir are making a frame for the public not yourself.


So you have just lost a customer.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on October 04, 2012, 05:48:30 AM
@deadwing:

thanks for the write-up and pixs.

@bri-jon:

though i agree with you (read my earlier posts), at end of the day, it's his bike and company.
go easy on him will you, don't crush his dream even before it becomes reality...

@joshua s:

nothing but best wishes for you and your upcoming frame/ bike. post pixs once it's done!

thanks
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 04, 2012, 07:36:33 AM
I never opened my closed dropouts on my PiR frame because I don't have the correct tools and don't feel like messing around with it. Its not a huge deal to me, as I plan to try out a Stranger Freecoaster and cut the 14mm that sits in the dropout down so it works with my 3/8th dropouts.

And as for putting some more female axle parts out on the market, yes please.  For Nankai & KHE. Female axles are not for everyone, however there are some people who really would love these sorts of axle alternatives.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on October 04, 2012, 08:56:06 AM
uh, the stranger coastersaurus would be identical to the infinity flow freecoaster i assume?

both ends of the 14mm axle has allen key slot machined in; i think it's to enable the rider to tighten/ loosen the lock nuts to do internal adjustments.
if you machine away the ends to convert it to a true female hub, i think it might impair your ablity to service your hubs by making the allen key slots too shallow for you to apply any torque. 

think twice...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 03:01:24 PM
So your limiting your audience even more. And grinding 10mm to 14mm isnt to bad with an angle grinder on open dropouts.
With closed there will be 2 bastard end to round of. AND you cant get an angle grinder in there to make the job quicker.
And I bet your warranty wont cover if the the dropouts are cut open.
SO...
If you want his frame you need a female freecoaster and 10mm axles and if you want to have 14mm you HAVE to use a file.
You sir are making a frame for the public not yourself.
So you have just lost a customer.

These dropouts weren't designed to be cut. Plus, most if not all female axles are 3/8". If you wanted to modify one to be a 14mm you would have to replace everything in the hub. And as everyone said, the female axles with 14mm axle sticking out won't fit so 3/8" is the majority if not all female freecoasters.(unless you modify one.)
Does anyone run 3/8" female hubs with 14mm adapters?
Like I said, anything can change on this frame. If you guys want 14mm dropout slots then let me know.
While the enclosed dropouts will be our main production models, I will consider making some with open dropouts.



Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Deadwing on October 04, 2012, 03:03:56 PM
That would only effect adjusting the slack externally. All the adjusting would have to be done internally if this is cut. Also may just get another Nankai axle made. Undecided.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 03:43:25 PM
@deadwing:
thanks for the write-up and pixs.
@bri-jon:
though i agree with you (read my earlier posts), at end of the day, it's his bike and company.
go easy on him will you, don't crush his dream even before it becomes reality...
@joshua s:
nothing but best wishes for you and your upcoming frame/ bike. post pixs once it's done!
thanks

I will cater to the riders. I will do a limited run on both open and closed dropout frames.
No one is/will crush my dreams. :) Comments & suggestions are what's needed. And Bri-jon's made sense. I'm still making this frame for you guys.
Just remember this is a preview of the flatland frame I will be making. Nothing is final. Heck we haven't even tested the prototype yet to see what's what. If you guys can remain patient and keep giving suggestions, ideas, comments on the frame, we will built what you want.
Thanks, K.Wong for the best wishes & as soon as the proto is done I WILL defiantly post pics before and after it's built.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 03:46:26 PM
I never opened my closed dropouts on my PiR frame because I don't have the correct tools and don't feel like messing around with it. Its not a huge deal to me, as I plan to try out a Stranger Freecoaster and cut the 14mm that sits in the dropout down so it works with my 3/8th dropouts.
And as for putting some more female axle parts out on the market, yes please.  For Nankai & KHE. Female axles are not for everyone, however there are some people who really would love these sorts of axle alternatives.
I will do my best for you guys to make female replacement axles. And Deadwing, would you mind sharing how you made a female axle for your Nankai? Maybe PM me? Thanks!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 04:00:11 PM
uh, the stranger coastersaurus would be identical to the infinity flow freecoaster i assume?

both ends of the 14mm axle has allen key slot machined in; i think it's to enable the rider to tighten/ loosen the lock nuts to do internal adjustments.
if you machine away the ends to convert it to a true female hub, i think it might impair your ablity to service your hubs by making the allen key slots too shallow for you to apply any torque. 

think twice...

Are they ever going to release that full female hub? I think Pat at flatland fuel said it would be out about now... That could be another axle I could build a replacement axle for...

Anyone seen how the Odyssey female axles work? The don't have locknuts. The cones just snap on. No Lock nuts required. I think profile's work like this too. I don't know how that would work with freecoasters though...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 04, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
That would only effect adjusting the slack externally. All the adjusting would have to be done internally if this is cut. Also may just get another Nankai axle made. Undecided.

How would you remove the lock nuts though to get into the hub? I notice the other full female axles have a place to fit the allen key then the threads start...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Bri-jon on October 04, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
some free coaster to look out for though which maybe big names...


ezra, eclat blind and the cult look nice.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: K.Wong on October 05, 2012, 06:26:47 AM
+1 on the cult
at least when i look at the internals, i could figure out how it works and probly do my own repairs;
the eclat and ezra on the otherhand...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: pulsar on October 05, 2012, 10:31:51 PM
Hey buddy, great to see things moving along for you. I remember a while back when you were just starting all this. Keep pushing forward, things are looking great. I do think you should drop the enclosed drop out though because in reality there is no advantage strenght wise.

With thats said i do feel bad for you trying to build for this market. These guys here are the most critical and hardest to please i've ever seen in my life, most who have not even a clue to the products they buy and how they are built. Who would think that a aluminum ANYTHING on a hub settup, be it hub insert, axle, nut or what have you, as being a good design and wouldnt fail? I think your tallents might be better off served up somewhere else. Just look at all the crap parts makers get for creating parts over the years and these are well established companies who have been doing it for years.

It looks like you are really passionate about pushing things forward and i wish you the best of luck. Just take most of what you read here with a grain of salt. Use what info you can and ignor the rest.

Take care
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on October 06, 2012, 12:20:56 AM
Hey buddy, great to see things moving along for you. I remember a while back when you were just starting all this. Keep pushing forward, things are looking great. I do think you should drop the enclosed drop out though because in reality there is no advantage strenght wise.
With thats said i do feel bad for you trying to build for this market. These guys here are the most critical and hardest to please i've ever seen in my life, most who have not even a clue to the products they buy and how they are built. Who would think that a aluminum ANYTHING on a hub settup, be it hub insert, axle, nut or what have you, as being a good design and wouldnt fail? I think your tallents might be better off served up somewhere else. Just look at all the crap parts makers get for creating parts over the years and these are well established companies who have been doing it for years.
It looks like you are really passionate about pushing things forward and i wish you the best of luck. Just take most of what you read here with a grain of salt. Use what info you can and ignor the rest.
Take care

Thanks for the encouragement & advice.  I've noticed also that the flatlanders are more educated & yes critical & hard to please than street/park riders. :) That's not a bad thing though. I've gotten things out of this that I may have overlooked or didn't think of. The key to this company-cater to the riders & at the same time progress the industry. That's where comments, suggestions, advice can only help me do this better...

Don't look for Modern Bikes to go anywhere soon. We're just at the beginning. :)

Thank You pulsar.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on December 01, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
More Details & Photo:
Modern Bikes Isaiah Jordan's I.J. FLATLAND Prototype Frame
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/JAYSON_718/IJFLATLANDFRAME.jpg)

Click Here For More Details: http://modernbikesbmx.blogspot.com/2012/12/modern-bikes-prototype-flatland-frames.html (http://modernbikesbmx.blogspot.com/2012/12/modern-bikes-prototype-flatland-frames.html)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Pralex on December 01, 2012, 06:11:59 PM
^ Snappy snappy.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: byke on December 01, 2012, 07:01:09 PM
How is this any different to the post on page 1? (apart from the colour?)
#Re-bump dead thread
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame preview...
Post by: Joshua S. on December 02, 2012, 04:21:25 PM
^ Snappy snappy.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frame Update [Photos]
Post by: Joshua S. on June 22, 2013, 10:41:24 PM
Modern Bikes Li-Rai (Isaiah Jordan Signature frame)
(http://modernbikesbmx.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/2.jpg)


Isaiah Jordan wanted a frame that would take hop whips & other jumping tricks. We went a step further and built a flatland frame that can take any type of riding.  But that still has the similar looks, specs, and weight (sub. 4lbs.) of a modern day flatland frame.  Using OX Platinum Tubing and having it built by Standard Bykes(Made In USA) helped us achieve these goals.
The photos are dark to only give you a sample of what’s to come. With so many of you requesting to see it before the production models are sold, we give you these photos. Including a few specs with a description of why we built it this way, you’ll get a better idea of this modern flatland frame.
OX Platinum Tubing throughout (heat treated chromoly)- We used this material to further reduce cracking and breaking. No Top or Down Tube Gussets needed.
Enclosed Dropouts- Using this type of dropout prevents bending. And to be used with the newer, female axle hubs. A 14mm open dropout version of this frame will be available also.
Top Tube Sizes- Because no rider is the same we offer 3 sizes-  19.0″, 19.25″, 19.5″

Li-RAI
(longer version)
(http://modernbikesbmx.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/1.jpg)


This is the larger version of the Li-Rai frame for the flatland riders that prefer open dropouts and a longer overall frame to be used for the other disciplines of riding. We went with FBM Bikes( Made In USA) for this frame to achieve a different look but still maintain similar qualities of the Signature Li-Rai. Using SuperTherm tubing, Double Gussets, 14mm Heat Treated dropouts,  this frame can handle more than just flatland.
Choices of Top Tubes on this Li-Rai frame are 19.5″, 19.75″, 20.5″.
To keep things smooth, the integrated seat post clamp used is a wrap around clamp with a captured nut.
The weight is estimated 4lbs.
We would like for you to get involved with the designs of these frames before we release the production models. This is to give you a product you will want and buy. Comment below, send us a tweet on Twitter- Modern Bikes Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/Joshua_sequoyah) or shoot us an email @ mbbmxco@yahoo.com  and lets get a discussion going.
-Modern Bikes




Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: byke on June 23, 2013, 12:47:05 AM
So let me understand this correctly,
The shorter version that is more aimed at flat, features enclosed dropouts?
Whereas the longer version aimed more at street has opened dropouts?


Could you explain to us how closed dropouts for flat could be beneficial?

Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: jm on June 23, 2013, 02:33:08 AM
Quite an unusual name for a frame. Is there a backstory on that?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 23, 2013, 05:10:24 AM
Quite an unusual name for a frame. Is there a backstory on that?
Yes, If you know Isaiah he's very family oriented, and he wanted to name it after kids. Li-Rai is abbreviations of his 2 daughter's names.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Bri-jon on June 23, 2013, 04:08:00 PM
how do you bend droupouts doing flatland? I understand street with grinds but flat?
And how many female coaster are there again?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 23, 2013, 05:14:27 PM
I agree with Bri-Jon, i don't think i have ever seen a bent drop out in Flatland. I could see it with some of the frames with 3mm/4mm thick drop outs but i still haven't seen it happen. Also, again.. How many Female Freecoasters are there? There are a few She-male ones which are 14mm in the drop out & i think KHE does a She-male one that's cut off completely to work with 3/8ths bolts (?) So that's one at my count that could be used with this frame. The FBM made one, my suggestions are to dump the removable mounts or at least offer a brakeless version. Also raise the top tube slightly, with a slightly longer seat tube the top tube & seat stays will be perfectly in line which for me is more of an aesthetic thing but looks nicer tbh. 14mm drop outs are a huge plus! Props for that!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: byke on June 23, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
As Bri-Jon and Topsey have already stated, I cant understand the reasoning to put an enclosed dropout on a flat frame? As it only further reduces the ability to find freecoasters that fit with it.
And so far I havent read any reviews on full female coasters that justify it.


I had pondered the thought that maybe an enclosed dropout would offer greater foot clearance in terms to chainstay or seatstay ends, but this doesn't seem the case either (based on pictures found on the website).


If this was Dragons den ......


(http://modernbikesbmx.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/frame7.jpg)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 23, 2013, 08:43:12 PM
I agree with Bri-Jon, i don't think i have ever seen a bent drop out in Flatland. I could see it with some of the frames with 3mm/4mm thick drop outs but i still haven't seen it happen. Also, again.. How many Female Freecoasters are there? There are a few She-male ones which are 14mm in the drop out & i think KHE does a She-male one that's cut off completely to work with 3/8ths bolts (?) So that's one at my count that could be used with this frame. The FBM made one, my suggestions are to dump the removable mounts or at least offer a brakeless version. Also raise the top tube slightly, with a slightly longer seat tube the top tube & seat stays will be perfectly in line which for me is more of an aesthetic thing but looks nicer tbh. 14mm drop outs are a huge plus! Props for that!

These are our prototypes and can and will be changed to fit you're needs/wants before the productions are made. So you guys wanted open dropouts... I've stated that the Li-Rai signature will be available in open 3/8" dropouts. But we're going to change that to 14mm open dropouts... We're still going to sell the original design of the enclosed dropouts(some do want them) but we'll be selling more of the open dropouts. 
We could raise the tt on the longer Li-Rai no problem Topsey...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: wolverines on June 24, 2013, 03:59:20 AM
Integrated chain tensioners ?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 24, 2013, 04:09:47 AM
What is the Stand Over Height / Seat Tube Length? I personally would think with a 19.25"/19.5" Top Tube Frame it should be around 6.75"/7" Stand Over wise. I Love the look of the FBM one. How much are these gunna cost? I have a Custom FBM & i was looking into getting another specifically for Flat but i just couldn't afford the price tag when it came to it sadly. I see the custom badge on the down tube are these going to be made to order or are you working with FBM to get a whole batch of the frames made? Which should bring down how much you pay for them thus bringing down what we the customer will pay for them.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 24, 2013, 08:56:28 PM
Integrated chain tensioners ?
Yeah, we can do that. Which type are you referring to? The welded on threaded "tab" with bolt, tapped dropouts, or some you've designed?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 24, 2013, 09:02:46 PM
What is the Stand Over Height / Seat Tube Length? I personally would think with a 19.25"/19.5" Top Tube Frame it should be around 6.75"/7" Stand Over wise. I Love the look of the FBM one. How much are these gunna cost? I have a Custom FBM & i was looking into getting another specifically for Flat but i just couldn't afford the price tag when it came to it sadly. I see the custom badge on the down tube are these going to be made to order or are you working with FBM to get a whole batch of the frames made? Which should bring down how much you pay for them thus bringing down what we the customer will pay for them.

The Stand Over is 5.5" on both models. We are going to order them in batches. Which WILL bring down the price for you and me.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 24, 2013, 09:28:45 PM
Sounds good to me.. With the Stand over height. I might have gone a little too big then! If they're 5.5 i feel purely for Aesthetics it needs to be lifted slightly. 5.75" maybe 6" ? I just don't like that the top tube & seat stays are not in perfect symmetry. I really like the FBM version 19.5" with a slightly higher top tube & brakeless i could see myself ordering one! I'm in search of the perfect Flatland Frame & the 14mm drop outs are on my list of needed options.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 24, 2013, 11:15:56 PM
Sounds good to me.. With the Stand over height. I might have gone a little too big then! If they're 5.5 i feel purely for Aesthetics it needs to be lifted slightly. 5.75" maybe 6" ? I just don't like that the top tube & seat stays are not in perfect symmetry. I really like the FBM version 19.5" with a slightly higher top tube & brakeless i could see myself ordering one! I'm in search of the perfect Flatland Frame & the 14mm drop outs are on my list of needed options.
Your requests are possible. Especially for the Li-Rai (longer version) I think we can come close or exactly to what you specified. Since it's built for flat but can be ridden for park etc. the stand over could be higher...

I'm looking for a name to add to the longer version of the Li-Rai so people will be able to distinguish between the two frames... "Li-Rai Freestyle", "Li-Rai Free"...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 25, 2013, 12:23:05 AM
I know its pretty boring but you could simply call it the Li-Rai XL or Long or something like that? I'll have to wait & see the final specs & price tag. I will have a think about this frame!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Revig on June 25, 2013, 12:49:29 AM
I'm looking for a name to add to the longer version of the Li-Rai so people will be able to distinguish between the two frames... "Li-Rai Freestyle", "Li-Rai Free"...

Big Li-Rai
Li-Rai II
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Revig on June 25, 2013, 12:57:47 AM
Li-RAI (longer version)




what is that?



(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/796023731.jpg) (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/796023731.jpg)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 25, 2013, 01:14:34 AM
Its  badge welded on by FBM it says hand crafted in new york FBM BMX & a number of how many custom frames they've got to. My Custom FBM has a badge in the same place. Mines number 167! As its a "Proto" if you want to say. FBM have seen it as a custom as it is technically a custom one off so it got the badge. The Production ones will not have it as they will be made in a batch of say 15 frames.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 25, 2013, 07:51:16 PM
I know its pretty boring but you could simply call it the Li-Rai XL or Long or something like that? I'll have to wait & see the final specs & price tag. I will have a think about this frame!

No problem. This is open to all. Feel free to post your names.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 25, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
Big Li-Rai
Li-Rai II

Li-Rai 1.5
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 25, 2013, 07:57:25 PM
Li-RAI (longer version)
what is that?

It's a FBM badge. They won't be on the production models or further protos. That gave me some ideas though...
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 25, 2013, 08:03:41 PM
Its  badge welded on by FBM it says hand crafted in new york FBM BMX & a number of how many custom frames they've got to. My Custom FBM has a badge in the same place. Mines number 167! As its a "Proto" if you want to say. FBM have seen it as a custom as it is technically a custom one off so it got the badge. The Production ones will not have it as they will be made in a batch of say 15 frames.

Correct!

I didn't know they put it on their custom frames and I would have at least included "Modern Bikes prototype". If I knew. But it's no problem.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 25, 2013, 08:05:07 PM
"Li-Rai +1" ? ;)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 26, 2013, 09:53:30 PM
I know its pretty boring but you could simply call it the Li-Rai XL or Long or something like that? I'll have to wait & see the final specs & price tag. I will have a think about this frame!

 B)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 28, 2013, 04:44:51 PM
The best name that is suggested will be selected for the name of this frame. And will also win a free t-shirt!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 28, 2013, 07:06:30 PM
Modern Bikes "Li-Rai Suppergiu Grande"


Extra Large in Italian, I thought of Italian as its kinda a fancy language & the "Suppergiu Grande" sounds sporty lol  ;D
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 28, 2013, 08:57:15 PM
Modern Bikes "Li-Rai Suppergiu Grande"


Extra Large in Italian, I thought of Italian as its kinda a fancy language & the "Suppergiu Grande" sounds sporty lol  ;D

Ok.  How do you say it? Su-pail-joo?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 28, 2013, 09:04:44 PM
Here's a few I received from others:
"Li-Rai Reach"
"Li-Rai Nice!!!"

I'm kinda liking the "Reach" out of all of em'.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 28, 2013, 10:19:30 PM
Su-Par-gshe-o I believe is the correct pronunciation, when i think about it now.. It looks badass on paper but whats the point in having a Frame name that probably 12% of the worlds population can pronounce lol!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 02:13:54 AM
Su-Par-gshe-o I believe is the correct pronunciation, when i think about it now.. It looks badass on paper but whats the point in having a Frame name that probably 12% of the worlds population can pronounce lol!

Be cause it not only distinguishes it from the Signature Li-Rai but any other frame.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 29, 2013, 02:36:59 AM
I didn't mean the extra name to distinguish between the two frames, i meant my choice of add on. I meant if people cannot pronounce the Italian words i chose to go with the Li-Rai it would be annoying for the owner. "Its a Modern Bikes Li-Rai, errm i have no idea how to pronounce the next bit!"


I have another one though...


Li-Rai J'adore - J'adore is I Love in French.. So not only does it distinguish the longer frame from the shorter one but it kinda ties in with using his daughters names for the frames name..


I Love Li-Rai


What do you think about that one?
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 06:18:24 AM
I didn't mean the extra name to distinguish between the two frames, i meant my choice of add on. I meant if people cannot pronounce the Italian words i chose to go with the Li-Rai it would be annoying for the owner. "Its a Modern Bikes Li-Rai, errm i have no idea how to pronounce the next bit!"
I have another one though...
Li-Rai J'adore - J'adore is I Love in French.. So not only does it distinguish the longer frame from the shorter one but it kinda ties in with using his daughters names for the frames name..
I Love Li-Rai
What do you think about that one?

You could include the pronunciation... Li-Rai Suppergiu "Su-Par-gshe-o". but it seems too long though...

"Li-Rai J'adore" Sounds ok.
I'll add it to the list. ;)



Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Revig on June 29, 2013, 02:40:31 PM
"Li-Rai J'adore" Sounds ok


mdr c'est tout pourri comme nom de cadre !!
don't want to be a dick but that sucks as a bike part name ??? :) , and really not appropriate on a said US made stuff..
and that's already used!!  so not original..

DIOR J'ADORE [NEW FILM] official (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkwpan)

 :beer:
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Revig on June 29, 2013, 02:48:57 PM
J'adore is I Love in French.. So not only does it distinguish the longer frame from the shorter one but it kinda ties in with using his daughters names for the frames name..

unfortunately that's not that simple, you rarely use "j'adore" when it's about people, specially when it's about relatives like your children. To make it short, there is a lot of possiblilities to say "I love" in french and each of them show slight differences and is appropriate or not, depending the meaning of your message.
If you talk about your childrens and if you want to say that you love them, specially with a message, you might say : "Li-Ray, je vous aime" but that's still weird though..
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on June 29, 2013, 04:44:31 PM
The best name that is suggested will be selected for the name of this frame. And will also win a free t-shirt!
the Juggernaut

 jug·ger·naut (jgr-nôt)
n.
1. Something, such as a belief or institution, that elicits blind and destructive devotion or to which people are ruthlessly sacrificed.
2. An overwhelming, advancing force that crushes or seems to crush everything in its path: "It doesn't assume that people need necessarily remain passive when confronted by what appears to be the juggernaut of history" (Christopher Lehmann-Haupt).
3. Juggernaut Used as a title for the Hindu deity Krishna
 
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 29, 2013, 05:22:50 PM

J'adore is I Love in French.. So not only does it distinguish the longer frame from the shorter one but it kinda ties in with using his daughters names for the frames name..


unfortunately that's not that simple, you rarely use "j'adore" when it's about people, specially when it's about relatives like your children. To make it short, there is a lot of possiblilities to say "I love" in french and each of them show slight differences and is appropriate or not, depending the meaning of your message.
If you talk about your childrens and if you want to say that you love them, specially with a message, you might say : "Li-Ray, je vous aime" but that's still weird though..


Well that i did not know! Doesn't really work to well does it haha!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 06:08:02 PM
"Li-Rai J'adore" Sounds ok

mdr c'est tout pourri comme nom de cadre !!
"lol that is a rotten as a frame name !!" hahaha!
don't want to be a dick but that sucks as a bike part name ??? :) , and really not appropriate on a said US made stuff..
and that's already used!!  so not original.
Dude, that's a perfume commercial... It hasn't been used for a bike part. Plus the word can be used anywhere for anything. Their full name is "Dior J'adore". We're just trying to figure out a name for the frame. J'adore is just a french word means "I love". But thanks for the info though and yeah it might not be the best choice for US made part name...but don't give up on names for this frame. Doesn't matter if it's outlandish/different language/ etc. etc. etc. I mean Li-Rai came from two children's names! :)

*That's an incredible commercial though. ;)
be nice if she came out only modeling a bicycle part.... ;) jk
 
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 06:18:42 PM
The best name that is suggested will be selected for the name of this frame. And will also win a free t-shirt!
the Juggernaut

 jug·ger·naut (jgr-nôt)
n.
1. Something, such as a belief or institution, that elicits blind and destructive devotion or to which people are ruthlessly sacrificed.
2. An overwhelming, advancing force that crushes or seems to crush everything in its path: "It doesn't assume that people need necessarily remain passive when confronted by what appears to be the juggernaut of history" (Christopher Lehmann-Haupt).
3. Juggernaut Used as a title for the Hindu deity Krishna
 

Oh wow... that will defiantly help distinguish between the two frames! :)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
J'adore is I Love in French.. So not only does it distinguish the longer frame from the shorter one but it kinda ties in with using his daughters names for the frames name..

unfortunately that's not that simple, you rarely use "j'adore" when it's about people, specially when it's about relatives like your children. To make it short, there is a lot of possiblilities to say "I love" in french and each of them show slight differences and is appropriate or not, depending the meaning of your message.
If you talk about your childrens and if you want to say that you love them, specially with a message, you might say : "Li-Ray, je vous aime" but that's still weird though..

Ok, thanks for that. But, naming this frame doesn't have to be necessarily a complex and complicated process. ;)
So you want to go with " Li-Rai je vous aime"? ;P

"Li-Rai Jenvous Anime"? ;)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on June 29, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
Well that i did not know! Doesn't really work to well does it haha!

Doesn't matter! :)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Phatman on June 29, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
Cool  :)
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Bri-jon on June 30, 2013, 11:21:29 PM
keep it simple "lengthy" and "shorty" or the  XL like someone said.
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on July 04, 2013, 12:08:29 AM
Cool  :)

Let's get these names going on again! Free Tee to the best name!
Title: Re: Modern Bikes prototype flatland frames preview
Post by: Joshua S. on July 04, 2013, 12:24:16 AM
I'm watching The Thing right now and thought of it... "Li-Rai The Thing", or "Li-Rai Thing".