Global-flat.com Board
English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: JoeKickass on June 19, 2012, 01:53:47 AM
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No, you're not imagining things -- I just typed that sh*t.
Why?
Because nobody has a f*cking clue what flatlanders are doing other than spinning in circles while weirdly wavering trying to maintain balance. I firmly believe, the tricks/combos of the mid 90s, suspecially the scuffing ones -- provide a perfect supplement to the rolling and wicked fast spinning tricks currently dominating today's era.
Does it have to be a retro injection of pure mid 90s tricks?
It should be, but not necessarily.
Miami hop hops out of nowhere would be cool as f*ckass. So would some backside walkarounds.
Jus sayin' is all.
This of course assumes flatland wants an audience and therefore substantial sponsors/growth opportunities.
If not, that's cool too. Don't get me wrong, the progression is completely insane to me. Unfathomable 20 years ago. But, too complicated/difficult for its own good, which has really just limited Flatland's appeal to potential riders and spectators.
It's important that we discuss these things for the betterment of not just flatland, but for all of man and woman kind as a whole -- and as a hole, respectively.
Groinpullingly,
JKA
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I firmly believe, the tricks/combos of the mid 90s, suspecially the scuffing ones -- provide a perfect supplement to the rolling and wicked fast spinning tricks currently dominating today's era.
This of course assumes flatland wants an audience and therefore substantial sponsors/growth opportunities.
As far as I know, the purchase of completes from Flatlandfuel has been steadily growing over the years, which is indicative of people getting into the sport. What the pros are doing has nothing to do with what the ams are doing. There's no reason to go backwards in order to appease a few people that don't take the time to understand or put into perspective riding at the highest levels of flatland.
It's basically like telling Kevin Jones in the mid 90's to stop doing backwards backpackers and x footed rolling tricks because it's just too hard, or telling Chase to stop doing brakeless decades because they're too scary. Doesn't really make any sense.
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if i were to agree on one thing(not sure if you mentioned it) , but theres alot of underutilization in flatland...theres lots of midschool tricks that could pass for modern that arent done at all. like pedal lardyards or just plain doing regular hand steam combos v. played out switch hand steam...after ucchie and matthias i havent seen many younger riders do death trucks.rollaids link into stuff. list go's on. I think as far as that's concerned someone will pick up the pieces eventually
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Who says that old tricks aren't still being done? And why not. Hell...steamrollers aren't retro enough? Almost 25 years old at this point.
Do what you do...forget what others think.
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just ride
don't think
bmx is bmx nothing more
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Just do what you want to do, I throw in few old school tricks to show the young guns here in Japan and they love it.
BTW, my profile pic is me doing a Miami Hop Hop on a light 36 spoke wheel, I guess they can take more beatings than they used to.
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Genral concept : i don't think anyone will ever be succesful with giving other people what they are expecting, because most of the time we are very wrong about what they're exepecting, they don't even know it themsleves.
But i understand joe's point, it makes sense in a show/demo format where people won't tell the difference between tricks and it gives diversity. But at the same time i never really enjoyed seeing riders do too old school trick like surfers and the kind during demos, because in a way it is giving people a distorted image of what flatland is really like today. May be some people do old school tricks, but they're far from beeing a majority.
The idea of mixing mid school with new school tricks is a good point, a good idea. anyone who is up for that is free to go this way. but expecting a positive feedback ... i don't know...
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The combo I want is a backside walk around to perverted boomerang to decade
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The combo I want is a backside walk around to perverted boomerang to decade
Now you're just being ridiculous.
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I'm still confused as to why going backwards when it seems like more and more riders make a living off of shows, and consequently going out and doing impressive display tricks like time machines and turbined steamrollers, is somehow a good thing.
The crowds like it. Or are we talking about putting mid-school tricks in actual contest runs because some old guys wish it was still 1995 or something?
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idk about going "backwards" but i do agree that some tricks are being under utilized (as mr. archon said)
riding is in a great place but a lil variety and different styles would appeal to a non riders audience as well.
i also love the idea of street influenced tricks being used in flat now too (whoppers and bar spins) however, that can get real played out, really fast too.
example...watch kink jet lagged (different areas of riding but primarily the same tricks.
one can only watch so many bar spins, tailwhips and hang 5's before it becomes boring.
the switch handed steam today is to the fire hydrant to decade 10-15 years ago...
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when I get a bike I'm going to run full brakes again but my I really want to do is bar endo's. I loves those!
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idk about going "backwards" but i do agree that some tricks are being under utilized (as mr. archon said)
I find it amazing that people who are nowhere near the top level of riding believe that AT the top level of riding certain tricks are under utilized. As if the pros don't know what is best for them.
Here is style cats from 1995, which is smack in the middle of the era that's being discussed.
1995 - Standard Industries - StyleCats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqkOs-Y2M04#)
Here is the pre-jam voodoo video that was just posted a few days ago.
Voodoo Pre Jam 2012 Extended Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSIiEZVd-rQ#ws)
And there isn't variety in today's riding compared to back then...? That was all at one jam and Style Cats was filmed over a long period of time. sh*t is just SO much harder and interesting these days. I can't fathom going back to that era.
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TJ, you can't "fathom" going back to that era, yet it is being done as we speak. Terry won best "flatland" trick at jomopro with a "street" trick twist created in 1991 by bill nitschke (a whopper) and bunny hop barspin which was done around the same time.
I'm sorry I offered a suggestion without having a pro skill level. I didn't know that your skill level had anything to do with giving an open idea. No one said that "we know better than a pro" as you are claiming we did, but again, we lesser skilled individuals are not the "great TJ perry" so I guess you're allowed to misconstrue that for us.
why don't you try sitting in the stands amongst the regular crowds watching a comp. I've heard the murmurs many times by "non riding spectators".
"oh that guy just did the same exact trick" "they all do the same thing" and then after an hour, they get bored and lose interest in watching.
Nothing was farther from the truth in reality(there were switches in hands, feet and changes in direction), but to the average spectator, they see something like a spinning death truck and it looks the same as a time machine to them. the spectators eye is not as kean as a riders eye...
Sorry for giving a suggestion. I will continue to be close minded and think inside the box until I have your permission and approval to do otherwise...
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I love how older riders like to throw all credit to tricks back to guys who were doing their most primitive versions way back when as if the way they're being done now is no different. Terry won doing whopper to manual downside whopper if I remember correctly, and nobody was doing that in the 90's. Even if they were, it doesn't matter because people are doing things in an entirely different way now than they were back then, and it's much more difficult now.
I never said I was the only one qualified, but if you have some kind of inferiority complex then that's your problem not mine. My point was that there is a constant clamor of people who aren't pro level trying to dictate or suggest what pros SHOULD be doing as if the pros can't make that decision for themselves. If you take insult to that then you're going out of your way to look for it, which is again not my problem.
I have stood in the crowds watching a contest. I was at the X games in 2001 talking to people on the sidelines about what they were seeing and the only thing they can tell is that there's a back wheel trick, a front wheel trick, and spinning is hard. Why does anyone need to pander to that low level of understanding when it comes to the sport?
Take any rider at a contest and give them three minutes, that's about all they're going to do in terms of their contest run practice. They're going to do it over and over no matter what tricks they have ready. Repetition will not go away because you have people doing funky chickens and scuffing backyards, it will just be the same thing over and over so it doesn't matter anyway.
Also kind of tired of how riders should make their riding more entertaining to spectators, while on the other hand you have people bitching that riders are not being progressive enough or creative enough. Everyone has their own opinions of how pros should ride for the "good" of the sport, while "spectator" riders of a bitch and moan that they're doing it wrong.
Newsflash, most pros could not care any less about what people on these forums think they should be doing because most pros (that I've spoken to personally anyway) think armchair flatlanders are a joke.
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I had experiences with spectators all the way until now when I show my friends videos of different people riding. I was using 2001 as an example of something over a decade old garnering the same reaction as things being done today. Not sure how that escaped you but there it is.
Contest attendance hasn't really changed the last few years. Not sure why it's an issue. Either people will go or they won't. I haven't had any disposable income to go to an event so I can't go to anything, I'm sure it's mostly the same across the board for everyone.
Making open suggestions as to how pros should ride in order to please a group of spectators that aren't even there is armchar flatlanding as far as I'm concerned. You didn't start the topic but you've said just about the same thing. I've given up trying to figure out what makes the sport grow because it doesn't really matter at this point. It's either self sustaining or it isn't. Who gives a f*ck. Just ride.
Drawing attendance to events shouldn't be a priority. People will come, no matter what you do. They also won't come, no matter what you do.
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Drawing attendance to events shouldn't be a priority. People will come, no matter what you do. They also won't come, no matter what you do.
Well, that all depends. If the goal is to grow Flatland at least back to where it was in terms of exposure, then rider attendance and building an audience is a good priority.
And to think people won't come 'no matter what you do' is not at all believable. There is an audience and a market for everything. Of course, there needs to be funds and an infrastructure in place. Again, if there's no interest in doing that, and clearly there isn't, that's cool. I still dig riding and watching people ride and talking about elevating flatland -- i see no downside in that.
I would like to pat myself on the back for creating another robust thread brimming with solid contributions from all.
You're welcome,
JKA
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It's actually a good suggestion, even if just to say that it would expand riders tricktionaries in general (is that going backwards or regressing?) Learning some variations, positions, combos and concepts from 10-15-20 years ago can simply be seen as a challenge to change up what has become mostly specialization these days. Don't get me wrong, i think that riders probably had to specialize and limit the range of tricks in order to excel to the crazy levels they have these days, and now we have seen such mad progression because of it. But many riders are afraid to depart from their "routines" because it has got them to where they are and they don't want to mess too much with that formula of success.
I think there is nothing wrong with picking up a few older style tricks and throwing them into modern combos, but i don't think many riders are interested because they are locked into certain styles, and have it in their heads that everything must "flow" or look a certain way. Not many riders are leaders in that they don't take the first step to do something un-trendy. They often wait to see what's going on in the sport and then do something similar. Riders seem to want to have a uniformity in the look/style of their riding and run with a particular theme or two.
Is there really no interest in doing some of the tricks that led to the tricks that led to today's tricks? Seemingly almost nobody is doing what JKA is suggesting? Not many riders are 40 years or older and still progressing and capable of putting together a combo that consist of examples of 25 years worth of tricks. To be completely honest, this is something that i have been wanting to do but cannot really ride. I tried to ride recently and got set back by either my immune system crashing or getting a cold virus or something. Now i sit in the house and suffer.
There are soooo many tricks available to us and i think that JKA is just saying it would be kinda neat to see a guy whipping and scuffing and "kick(ass)ing" and spinning and flipping and body/bike varialing and lashing and pumping and decading and turbining and even hopping all in one combo (front and back wheel, clockwise and counter, opposite and regular etc)... why would that be so bad? Flatland is apparently so much harder and better nowadays but hard and good could be a combo such as i described above as well.
Nobody has to sacrifice what they can do or which progressive directions they are going in but it could be possible to also add in some of the roots of modern day styles, even if they look completely different...which i guess would be the point. It would be very dynamic in its appearance in that one combo contained stuff that seems so foreign to the other stuff in the combo. I don't think anything should be done on purpose to force spectator interest if it's not what a rider truly wants to do. Yet i can't help but imagine that it probably would be quite interesting to watch a rider bust out some combos showing glimpses of our entire flatland history up til now.
In some of my excruciatingly boring Toronto demos, i sort of attempted a version of this, but just in separate combos. Of course i was not doing really modern stuff even back then, but did what i could to demonstrate some range...not because i thought that's what people wanted but because that's what i naturally felt like doing. It would be cool to see some riders with a genuine interest in and capability to display the past/present and future.
Don't worry, nothing can stop the runaway freight train that will always be whatever the trends and or next cutting edge tricks will be. Almost nobody has their bike set up to do what JKA suggested anyways.
And JKA, you had to know TJ would be against this idea....haha.
chase.
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lets entertain this idea.
What would be a good combo to throw a power mower into the mix? and would it require raditude?
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2flat2furious I think you are spot on. You are quit forward and direct but i think you are also correct.
The crowd can suck a pair of radnads:
You can never let flatland be influence by "the crowd". These people don't know what they are talking about. The crowd has a attention span of 20 minutes tops. And they respond the same no matter what discipline, whether it be street bmx, park bmx, juggling, breakdancing, skateboarding. They like what they are seeing but after 5 minutes they start making demands. "Can you do a backflip?", "Could you jump down from X?", "Could you jump on to Y?". "Can you walk on walls?" "Do you know that guy who rides on a fence (they are most likely refering to Danny Macaskill) can you do that?"
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old tricks will always have merit. sometimes i get bored with the current rotation of popular tricks and would like to see something different, even if it's not a new concept; just something revisited. as far as doing it for crowds, no. crowds don't warrant the path of riding, and they will clap at anything. do what's best, and keep exploring. the moment we start pandering to crowds is the moment we lose ourselves. be you to the max, and follow your interests. there's a wealth of old concepts just waiting to be re-mastered.
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It's actually a good suggestion, even if just to say that it would expand riders tricktionaries in general (is that going backwards or regressing?) Learning some variations, positions, combos and concepts from 10-15-20 years ago can simply be seen as a challenge to change up what has become mostly specialization these days. Don't get me wrong, i think that riders probably had to specialize and limit the range of tricks in order to excel to the crazy levels they have these days, and now we have seen such mad progression because of it. But many riders are afraid to depart from their "routines" because it has got them to where they are and they don't want to mess too much with that formula of success.
I'd agree with that. I think there are a few riders who are "stuck" in the types of tricks that they do because of the arc of their progression. I know I'm guilty of it to some extent. The flip side of it is that there are just some tricks that I might have learned once and never had any interest in doing again because either it wasn't fun for me, or too many people do it already/have done it.
I think there is nothing wrong with picking up a few older style tricks and throwing them into modern combos, but i don't think many riders are interested because they are locked into certain styles, and have it in their heads that everything must "flow" or look a certain way.
This too. I think the Japanese are good about finding weird "glitches" in their riding and throwing in an unexpected trick. I say "glitch" because sometimes the tricks they tend to come up with look like they were trying a combo one way and realized this weird old trick could be thrown in to the middle or end of the combo, sort of like Moto's jump on the tire ride out of steamroller combos. Looks like he just fell off his bike that way and went ".....oh?...oh!".
Not many riders are leaders in that they don't take the first step to do something un-trendy. They often wait to see what's going on in the sport and then do something similar. Riders seem to want to have a uniformity in the look/style of their riding and run with a particular theme or two.
I think the interesting thing about this is that the distinction between what is and isn't trendy isn't really made clear to people. I also think that there needs to be a distinction made between what is fun and what is simply people doing a trick because they think it's the hot new thing that people need to do to get into the cool kids club. That never really made much sense to me either way and to this day I have to struggle in order to identify which is which.
I also think that people who really do have a serious problem with trendy things should basically say so when a video of trendy tricks are posted. I'm still waiting for someone who bitches and moans about people being too trendy to flat out say as much when someone posts a video full of trendy tricks. Nobody does it though because they know it's easier to keep things in the abstract than to fully commit themselves to being a cock about it.
Is there really no interest in doing some of the tricks that led to the tricks that led to today's tricks? Seemingly almost nobody is doing what JKA is suggesting?
I didn't take a stance in opposition because it's a bad idea, I just think it's kind of silly for someone to suggest that it's even a remote reason why viewership and interest of the sport appears lower than it was before, or that the 90's were what they were because of the tricks they were doing. It had a lot more to do with Hoffman and the BS series and the new level of exposure the sport was getting than people scuffing more or less. We may as well blame the declining amount of spectators on the decline of the influence of the Seattle grunge scene while we're at it.
There are soooo many tricks available to us and i think that JKA is just saying it would be kinda neat to see a guy whipping and scuffing and "kick(ass)ing" and spinning and flipping and body/bike varialing and lashing and pumping and decading and turbining and even hopping all in one combo (front and back wheel, clockwise and counter, opposite and regular etc)... why would that be so bad?
It wouldn't, but it would be like dictating to you what you need to put in a video part. Don't you think you know better than anyone else how you want your riding to appear?
Yet i can't help but imagine that it probably would be quite interesting to watch a rider bust out some combos showing glimpses of our entire flatland history up til now.
But that's what the dorkin boxed set is for :)
In some of my excruciatingly boring Toronto demos, i sort of attempted a version of this, but just in separate combos. Of course i was not doing really modern stuff even back then, but did what i could to demonstrate some range...not because i thought that's what people wanted but because that's what i naturally felt like doing.
Nobody needed to tell you to do that though. It just happened the way it happened because you felt like doing it that way. Most people don't have that inclination because they aren't that old or they have no interest in doing that trick. Most people also don't want crowds to go home and self immolate either which is what I hear happened to all the spectators after watching your demo.
/Jokes
And JKA, you had to know TJ would be against this idea....haha.
I'm basically the plucky young Maoist 1949 revolutionary that can't wait to set fire to all the temples so that the old ways will be turned to dust so yeah of course I'd be against it.
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lets entertain this idea.
What would be a good combo to throw a power mower into the mix? and would it require raditude?
I saw Dane Beardsley do this for sh*ts and giggles at the Texas Flatland Roundup. He had so many rad, HARD combos...and then would casually throw in a brakeless Power Mower at the end of his combo. No raditude...just plain rad. He was pumped on old tricks...took photos of Rad Dad and me doing really old tricks at the OG that night. Nothing new or hard was done...but just having fun.
I like his style...doing some of the hardest combos/tricks imaginable...but not above throwing down some old tricks.
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People seem to ride in the styles they learned. My riding has an older feel because of my age and what I learned. Guys riding for the last 5 years have a new school style. To me, one is not better than the other. It's all riding and there is good and bad, not old and new.
Back in 88 when everybody started doing contest runs of 90% Kevin's tricks, it got boring to watch. Before that people had different style. Once "modern" tricks came in, many people went toward learning the newest thing rather than looking at their bike to come up with something new. The choice was make up your own unknown trick or do something everyone agreed was rad. It's still that way for the most part.
If you are riding to progress flatland, then you are pissing up a rope. If flat gets big again one day, fine. If it stays underground, fine. None of that matters when you are actually riding your bike. Doing tricks is fun and it doesn't need to be anything more than that. If your fun takes you into a progressive direction, that is great. If it takes you to becoming the most dialed rider with your 20 tricks, great. If you are the sketchiest guy at a contest but you are smiling the whole time, great.
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Flatland is weird in that it is almost very self destructive - it reinvents itself every few years and among the younger crowd there is a oftentimes a bit of dismissal of riding that happened even just a couple of years ago. Progress keeps going and everything generally keeps getting more difficult, and certainly riders are doing harder stuff than 10 years ago, and 100x harder than particularly the pre K. Jones 80's, but it's incredibly naive to mistake the age of something with it's difficulty level. There are 20+ year old tricks that are every bit as difficult as what is being done now. Not many of them, but they are there.
Does age of a trick make it not valid or good anymore? Is a quad decade not an valid trick because it is 20+ years old? What about a double?
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so much and so little to say about all this. The good thing about flatland beeing such an unpopular practice, is that there is absolutely no pressure for anyone to do, or not do anything.
Trendy people can follow trends, good for them, other s can be creative if they feel creative...some others will only do old school tricks, and why not.
The more i think about it, there i see the "free" part of freestyle beeing not what we thought it to be (creativity), but the absolute lack of pressure, and need to do anything in any given direction. In simple words, just do what you want, your life does not depend on that, it's all personal pleasure in the end.
My way of seeing it is that it's only personal pleasure. For me it is the feeling of having a perfect flow and gliding without effort, it's just physical pleasure to link one trick with the other without effort. So i now only practice tricks wich feel physically good and natural to me.
BUt it 's all a persoanl choice, some like fighting with difficult tricks and succeeding, but it's all FREEstyle in the end and anyone is free to do what they feel up for.
No stress.
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BUt it 's all a persoanl choice, some like fighting with difficult tricks and succeeding, but it's all FREEstyle in the end and anyone is free to do what they feel up for.
No stress.
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I think that last sentence said it all.Have fun,enjoy, and mix it up if you want.
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BUt it 's all a persoanl choice, some like fighting with difficult tricks and succeeding, but it's all FREEstyle in the end and anyone is free to do what they feel up for.
No stress.
I think that last sentence said it all.Have fun,enjoy, and mix it up if you want.
yeah!
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I think it would be reasonable to say that without fans and even "arm chair riders" many of us would not have the Pro Status and sponsors we do. They buy parts and attend contests/events sometimes which gives us a salary and an audience. Sure, some can be annoying and flat out stupid (just like regular people) but it comes with the territory in that we can't control who makes up our sport..to whatever degree and however they contribute. I can see Pros being against posers because Pros put in real work, but it's that contrast that makes the better riders and Pros stand out. Arm chair riders should be cautious of what they say though since they may often not have the hands on experience in hardcore riding. But i can see how they do have a genuine interest in the sport and want to be involved in some way so they can often say things that are inaccurate or don't apply just for the sake of putting in their two cents and simulating real recognition.
The self immolation was definitely a button pusher (TJ's specialty), and sure some riders and spectators might have been confused/frustrated or bored with my demos. But i often wonder why people can't adapt to something other than scratch DJ's and lyrics about weed/sex/guns/b**ches and super hyped announcers fake karate kicking the riders in the back after their routines/combos, and just appreciate the riding. I don't have perfect compromise suggestion, but obviously my approach is extreme opposite of the environment of the average contest/event so i've never suggested everyone ride in silence.
The assumed difficulty and interest value of tricks are generally relative to the time era riders are in (for most riders). I've said this before but: a rider will usually channel all his skill into tricks in and right around his generation which means he will inevitably progress from whichever point he started on the evolutionary scale of flatland. Again generally speaking of riders of similar levels of talent, it was probably no more or less (give or take a bit) of a struggle for a modern rider to learn a modern trick/combo than it was for a 90's rider to do what he did back then. If you see it from this angle then you can't possibly champion one era over another. I personally think that the way a trick looks is secondary to the fun a rider is having and how he's challenging himself and progressing in whatever direction. I think it is somewhat dogmatic just to say that tricks nowadays are SO MUCH harder and better and more interesting. My view may be such because i've seen it from 83 til now but it is nonetheless an informed view based on more experience. Again, i think it it easy to have the tendency to favor what is being done in our own generation because our egos tell us that we are a part of this movement.
"but it's incredibly naive to mistake the age of something with it's difficulty level. There are 20+ year old tricks that are every bit as difficult as what is being done now."
AGREED!
"To me, one is not better than the other. It's all riding and there is good and bad, not old and new."
Brett, i just talked to Kevola the other day and know about his move to York. he said he saw you on the freeway randomly which is crazy. I got your # from him and wanted to call you. I just have a couple questions/comments about your about quote. Just a pleasant inquiry to clarify. Fist you said that one is not better than the other, but followed by saying there is good and bad. If there is good and bad then this implies one is better than the other. Secondly, good and bad (talking about anything) is definitely more subjective and vague than the more definitive old and new. So i would argue the opposite in that there can't ultimately be good and bad (based on so many perspectives), yet there can be old and new based simply on timelines which are clearly more objective and un- disputable. This is not to say that old or new is good or bad which is my point in that all the tricks accumulatively are equally important in the grand scheme of things. Anyways,some point to ponder.
One last thing. The Dorking box set shows some of the same riders doing what they did years ago and what they were doing around 2000, plus some other non Hoods riders doing different stuff from earlier eras etc which does show the history. but what we are talking about here is one long combo that demonstrates glimpses of each time era. Seems like a straightforward difference.
chase
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Arm chair riders should be cautious of what they say though since they may often not have the hands on experience in hardcore riding. But i can see how they do have a genuine interest in the sport and want to be involved in some way so they can often say things that are inaccurate or don't apply just for the sake of putting in their two cents and simulating real recognition.
^^^I think that's why I took offence to TJ's calling me an "arm chair rider"^^^
First off you should know a person before speaking about them or their history.
I've ridden since 85, endured the whole "dead era" of the late 80's early 90's. Entered comps (although by 89 i had devoted myself more to ramp and street so they were ramp and street comps) since 89, and have done nothing but live and bleed bmx my entire life!!!
In my heyday I was an expert level rider at best, driving to davenport Iowa and supporting comps with 2-3 pro's in attendance (rick m, dmc and thorne) and doing my part to enter and support the sport when all hope seemed lost. I DON'T WANT OR NEED glorification for it, I'm just trying to give a lil history of myself!
Worthless side note: 1st time I met chase was when he had his black standard and was living at the standard house...
fast forward to the present.
I'm no pro but I still love riding as much as I did then. My amount of dedication is limited by family obligations work, 2 kids, etc., NOT desire or heart! Don't judge me because you saw a pic of my bike in the bike check!
I rode all winter in our warehouse, Factory 43 in Chicago, or in another warehouse we have also.
I try to ride almost every day but let's face it, I'm old, busy with work and kids and probably won't ever get 1/2 of what i could do back then back again (thanks ramp, street and injuries/surgeries). That said, does that make me a poser or armchair rider? I don't think so! I thought posers had nice bikes but "didn't" ride them?
I can't speak for JoeKickAss, but I know I was NOT trying to tell a pro how to ride or what tricks to do. What I was suggesting was that it would be nice to see some variety of styles come back.
an example of which is right here in this thread.
Chase and Jesse are both rad riders, but the styles are completely different.
Now put the spinning of Matthias and Matt together. they look similar to a point don't they?
If anything it was an attempt to get people (novices and pros alike) just to open their minds to other styles (hey mikey, try it, you might like it).
I apologize to anyone who had to deal with my ranting with TJ yesterday, I should have never lowered myself to that level (internet squabbling). Chase, glad to see you're doing better and hope you ride another 20 years.
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I didn't mean to take over and assume that we are all talking about a single combo that that goes through glimpses of tricks spanning 25 years or so, because that may not have been what JKA was implying specifically. But to me that would seem like a neat thing to do and a challenge to be able to do. Not for everyone, but just an experimental thing for whomever.
TJ,i know you were joking about the audience going home and setting themselves on fire...obviously.
Yes, it's true that if a rider is known for very progressive stuff and then reverts to older style tricks, it's easy to call regression. But going back to learn variations of stuff we might have passed up or never got around to is still learning tricks and progression in some form. It's true that almost everything is spinning or circular or clockwise and pumping with a few things thrown in like a tailwhip or tire boost decade to end. People are often afraid to touch the tire (other than an occasional power kick). It's easy to say just let people do what they want, but what they want is often to do tricks similar to what's hot in the sport. Even the word "they" is suspect if we get into the free will and determinism argument since we are largely if not mostly products of all external stimuli absorbed and memory which programs neurons to fire in ways that our beyond our control, even though we think we are making an active deliberate choice we assume to be the sole authors/prime movers of. Check out some Sam Harris stuff online about free will and we will really begin to second guess the control we think we have over ourselves. I'm not settled on this issue but it's interestingly shattering to know how little of the "self/individual" may actually be at work.
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What I mean is by good and bad are basic tricks themselves. Good tricks are always good, no matter the age. Bad tricks are always bad, no matter the age. Trevor circles are a great trick. The power mower, not so much. I know it's all relative and up to the personal style. Trevor circles opened doors and taught skills. The power mower can look rad but it is not a foundation to other moves.
Call anytime Chase. Miss you buddy. I started a blog and wrote about Mt. Rose. Think you'd appreciate it.
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Yes Brett, that makes sense in that a trick concept/position that so much can be done with is "better" for the sport and therefore good. I don't think there are any bad tricks, since they all probably led to something which sparked a further idea. maybe the power mower made Fred Blood try a decade...i'm not sure. But i will try to call you soon.
chase.
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I can think of a bad trick. Bubblicious.
Yoops.
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For those of you who are wondering what kind of trick Bubblicious is. Well, on our Plywood Hoods tour 91 driving around Atlantic City New Jersey, we picked up some prostitutes because we were drunk and tarded out. The one "trick" named Bubblicious sitting in the back seat with me managed to pinch $70 from my hip sack. They got out and then i noticed it was missing. Then we went into a casino where i played roulette (still not 21 yrs old yet) and managed to win back the $70 very quickly. Bubblicious was definitely a bad trick. Had to tell the story. I now no longer wear hipsacks and only occasionally mingle with prostitutes...haha. I tried in Panama but language barrier sabotaged my "functioning"...so now i only do prostitutes with whom i can have deep and intellectually stimulating conversations that turn me on...yoops.
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Chase, interesting point about free will. This could lead to a very long discussion, but going a bit off topic in my opinion if i may say, not because it is not a valid question to ask yourself, but because it is a phylosophical approach that questions every aspect of your life and not only flatland, and this would probably be better discussed in a forum about phylosophie ?
anyway...something very simple i can think of and that would explain why most riders prefer to go in the riding trend of the moment, is that it just simply gets boring to do the same old tricks.
I am myself an old 40 years old rider who started in the mid eighties. Although there are awesome tricks from back then i still enjoy watching, like rope a ronis, death trucks, hitchiker, etc... i don't feel like doing anymore because it gets me bored to do the tricks i was doing 20 years ago.
What i simply and very humbly say is that what we negatively call 'the trend' is may be just riders doing the newer stuff they see because the old one got boring ? off course there is always the alternative to create you own new moves but thats a lot harder to do so...
following trends may not only be about seeking recognition, as we negatively suggest every time this is brought up, but it might just simply be about the excitment of seeing fresh moves and wanting to do the same, because you grew bored of your old tricks ??
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If people were to revert back to the "old school" tricks then they just might evolve to become more complex and confuse the audience yet again.
Chase, it is possible to separate your thinking from anything that society has ever taught you to the point that you will realize "reality" closer to what it really is. People are filled with so many misconceptions and preconceived ideas about the way the universe operates and it's largely due to the fact that people will not question what they were taught in the first place. Many of the answers are not too complicated -- they are too simple.
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"If people were to revert back to the "old school" tricks then they just might evolve to become more complex and confuse the audience yet again."
I'm actually confused by this. Are you saying it would be a good thing to confuse the audience in that by being confused we have given them a mix of generations of styles that intrigue them? or confuse them so that they are bored and uninterested? either way, this seems like worrying too much about what the audience wants. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we revert to old school tricks. I don't think that complex combos are bad in any case, especially if riders are challenging themselves to venture into unfamiliar territory whether newer or older styles.
"Chase, it is possible to separate your thinking from anything that society has ever taught you to the point that you will realize "reality" closer to what it really is. "
No doubt we can become aware of what we've been programmed with and begin to perceive reality in a more clear and evidence based way, but certain conditioning that transcends this will probably always dictate our thought and behavior to a large extent. And making a distinction between those may be impossible.
"Many of the answers are not too complicated -- they are too simple."
I'm not so sure that that the answers are not too complicated. I mean intellects who study particular subject matter their entire lives would not say it's simple. Simple is ignoring the investigation and contemplation it requires to even chip away at life's biggest questions. In this sense, most people are simple in that they adopt ready made dogmas that poorly compensate for the the great unknowns.
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"anyway...something very simple i can think of and that would explain why most riders prefer to go in the riding trend of the moment, is that it just simply gets boring to do the same old tricks. "
Take a look at most riders and they ARE doing most of the same tricks they have stuck with. Very few dramatically change their styles and bag of tricks.
"I am myself an old 40 years old rider who started in the mid eighties. Although there are awesome tricks from back then i still enjoy watching, like rope a ronis, death trucks, hitchiker, etc... i don't feel like doing anymore because it gets me bored to do the tricks i was doing 20 years ago. "
I'm not familiar with your riding so i won't speak of it. But i can say for myself that i did a fair share of trick concepts throughout the years and there is still no shortage of variations of all of them that i never got around to and learning them would provide that little excitement we all look for. Not many riders can say they've done every variation of every trick concept...so to be bored of even old trick concepts shouldn't be a problem unless one is unwilling to explore more of what can be done with them. If i had my full health back and rode 5 hours a day 5 days a week for the next twenty years i probably wouldn't finish everything from the 90's. The beauty of flatland is that there is always some little twist on a trick you can pick up. Boredom is not really an option unless one is incapable of learning them. And even lesser skilled riders can always find something to try and probably learn.
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JoeKickass was the one to suggest that we integrate retro tricks. No, I don't want to confuse the audience. I'm just saying that most of them can't grasp what's going on in the first place and I'm sort of assuming here that the subject of this thread is to gain audience attention by making the sport more simple. All I am doing is pointing out that if we resorted to doing retro things then even the retro tricks would naturally evolve more and become more complicated in ways that were never experimented with before. This is actually intriguing to me and not for the sake of gaining more exposure (because I don't give a rat's ass about what the audience thinks) but for the sake of building on old things in new ways.
For the other topic -- I said MANY of the answers are simple -- not ALL of them. These intellects you speak of are often times burying themselves in thought that is so cyclical and contradictory that they make no progress with their thinking. When people think in cycles they get nowhere fast. They often times have no idea as to what answer they are even looking for because they don't even realize that they are not even asking the correct questions in the first place. I have seen it often times in my academic endeavors. They hardly ever exercise rationality but instead place their systems of belief first and prior to logic -- and I mean they won't even exercise basic logic. When one doesn't try to use rationality and prefers to believe in something even in the light of contradictory evidence it is religion!
Many of the so-called "intellects" that I have associated with are in fact guilty of the very religion and dogma you are referring to.
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"What i simply and very humbly say is that what we negatively call 'the trend' is may be just riders doing the newer stuff they see because the old one got boring ? off course there is always the alternative to create you own new moves but thats a lot harder to do so..."
Again, there is the alternative to creating (if it's too hard for the person or happens to not be very imaginative and still wants to ride and progress and have fun) and the alternative to following the tends is to check out other eras of riding and still find interesting and challenging stuff to do. I think being boredom is an excuse and that really people are often too afraid to be seen doing stuff that is perceived to be not up to date.
"following trends may not only be about seeking recognition, as we negatively suggest every time this is brought up, but it might just simply be about the excitment of seeing fresh moves and wanting to do the same, because you grew bored of your old tricks ??"
Following trends does not necessarily bring recognition yet rather can make a person disappear in the midst of the trends and ironically it backfires and they are not known for doing anything un-unsual. If you want to do the same, then a part of wants to be the same, and i can't think of anythingmore boring than realizing you are doing what most others are doing. How dull is it to dilute ones identity in this way? They may get a superficial pat on the back or place well at a comp for doing trendy stuff but it's pretty fleeting and vapid overall.
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If this cocktail of midschool tricks was adopted by the new school ... Would it make older riders feel less "old" or out of date since they may be able to compete again with the new school?
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In one sense the audience can't grasp what is going on because flatland is not a "traditional" sport that they can identify with. they can identify "kick ball" "put puck in net" "hit home run" etc because these are all games everyone knows. They can't grasp what the starting point would be to learn the flatland tricks they see so they are confused from the get go and are further from knowing what switch or flip they just saw in the blink of an eye. On the other hand, like what JKA said to start this post, i think the audience can recognize when most riders are in a similar position (steam/half pack/mcCircle whatever) and always going in a circle or spinning and this becomes homogenous to their vision. I think the crux of this topic is that a greater variety of riders in a greater range of positions and styles of tricks might be more captivating and noticeable even to the untrained eye when they see more diversity in each rider who enters the contest floor. and again, to me this whole captivating the audience should only be a biproduct (if it works) of riders naturally desiring to and doing greater ranges of tricks from different eras. I'm not even saying they should. It was just a suggestion that some riders might ponder to say "hey there is so much to do other than steam and spin and flip and switch and pump". Again,i'm still not saying it's wrong or bad because like i said in one of my ART mag articles, even riders who strive to copy will probably fumble onto some slightly different twist of the trendy stuff which is still pushing the sport. But like you said "building on old things in new ways"...and maybe that should be intriguing to more riders...but it generally isn't.
I wouldn't say intellects hardly ever utilize rationality. I don't have an academic career but from talking to Brandon Fenton, he has said some things along the lines of what you are saying in that they are sometimes more strictly going along for the academic ride and not really thinking for themselves. he even caught his professor on some bullsh*t stubborn elitist bias. I totally agree with you that academics/intellectuals can cater to their foundation of dogmas instead of fearlessly allowing them to be shattered by ideas or evidence that clearly should bring it into question, hence they may never truly break new ground in thinking. Or else just use their indoctrination to twist everything in a desperate attempt to make it all compatible.
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"If this cocktail of midschool tricks was adopted by the new school ... Would it make older riders feel less "old" or out of date since they may be able to compete again with the new school?"
Well, probably most older riders (unless they are really talented and on their game) wouldn't be able to hang with some of the newer concepts, because admittedly a lot of it is quite advanced. I know i would have a really hard time doing some of it even if i got back to my personal best. It's not going to happen any ways and this thread is just for talking mostly. If it did happen though then TJ might have to set himself on fire after watching old fogies pretend they are current Pro level...haha.
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I wouldn't say intellects hardly ever utilize rationality. I don't have an academic career but from talking to Brandon Fenton, he has said some things along the lines of what you are saying in that they are sometimes more strictly going along for the academic ride and not really thinking for themselves. he even caught his professor on some bullsh*t stubborn elitist bias. I totally agree with you that academics/intellectuals can cater to their foundation of dogmas instead of fearlessly allowing them to be shattered by ideas or evidence that clearly should bring it into question, hence they may never truly break new ground in thinking. Or else just use their indoctrination to twist everything in a desperate attempt to make it all compatible.
Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to and I'm glad Brandon has brought that to your attention so that you are already familiar with what I was getting at. I'm just simply trying to say that dogmas are everywhere (as I know you are already aware), and that they even commonly exist among certain fields of academic study.
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i'm getting a bit dizzy...Imposible to react on every point that has been raised.
i think i'm just the usual individual who gets bored quickly of doing the same thing for too long, the kind of person who does not explore every aspect of every thing to the fullest, and i also don't mind disapearing in the midst of the trends, not looking into becoming someone spectacularly different from everyone else.
But as i wrote before we all are different individuals, not all riding for the same reasons. So i guess everyone deserves respect in his own way of riding, wether it be hardcore riding 5 hours a day, or just like me riding 1 to 2 hours a day and not inventing any special tricks and not going against the trends either.
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Interesting look at someone still exploring the use of brakes. Eras, tricks, brakes, brakeless...freestyle is limitless. Re-visiting old trick concepts and taking them to new levels always is exciting for me to watch.
http://youtu.be/I9ZQfpBmo4w (http://youtu.be/I9ZQfpBmo4w)
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Interesting look at someone still exploring the use of brakes. Eras, tricks, brakes, brakeless...freestyle is limitless. Re-visiting old trick concepts and taking them to new levels always is exciting for me to watch.
[url]http://youtu.be/I9ZQfpBmo4w[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/I9ZQfpBmo4w[/url])
Now that was refreshing!
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That was a cool vid :)
I only really thoroughly read half this thread. Strangely, ive been watching the dorkin vids and really appreciating the style of riding in them again. Sometimes i get a little bored with the newer style of riding because alot of it looks the same...regardless of difficulty. Im not saying theres anything wrong with it, im just saying for me personally. I made sure my most recent frame had brake mounts as i want to mess around with older and newer stuff, kid of like what JKA mentioned in the first place...and i did that before this thread popped up. Im far from a pro, im older, more out of shape and have alot of other things going on in my life and will likely not progress to any reasonable level anymore...it doesnt matter. I ride because its fun...i will do old school tricks new school tricks...whatever i like to do...will i blow modern day younger flatlanders minds...probably not, but that doesnt matter to me. All that matters is i have fun. thats why i got into riding in the first place.
Sometimes i feel the forums really make things more dramatic than they need to be becuase of how many people you reach making one observation/suggestion. If JKA was riding with 3 freinds and said the same thing, one of em may have said, yea that would be cool and start messing around with some old stuff....and that waould be that...its all in fun.... not so much who is better than who, that style is better than this style...sometimes i really feel like we lose sight of why we started riding in the first place.
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The truth is that tricks and styles are all up to the rider.
If you want to ride in a "old school" style than it's totally up to you.
If you feel in some way that it's foolish or out-of-style than your are certainly being influenced by sources other than yourself.
There's a place for trendiness/posers and that place is ... not freestyle.
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Wow, this has really grown into an awesome discussion.
Thanks!
To clarify. I am not passing judgement on any particular rider's style. I am merely stating my opinion, which is, laypeople -- do not have a clue what is going when watching Flatland of today. They only see guys spinning in circles on one wheel turbining - for the most part.
To me, the 90s delivered the most diversity Flatland ever saw. So, I'm just suggesting those styles of scuffing tricks and wicked hard switches -- simply be integrated into todays runs in order to broaden the 'tricktionaries' (great word!) because I think it would be more appealing to potential spectators.
That's all. I'm not knocking anyone who is progressing or on their own Flatland journey.
This kind of thing is not at all unique to today's Flatland. I remember sitting through AFA master runs of watching everyone pulling the latest and greatest tricks. BUT, back then -- there weren't as many tricks.
These days, there's virtually an endless quiver brimming with Flatland tricks and styles -- let's use em!
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Today bmx has become so compartmentalized, you have all these little subsets of the sport, that follow their own little trends. Flatland has followed along for the ride, as there are tons of riders that do what the other guys do.
To the public, they see the same thing over and over. If someone busted out a Christmas tree and stalled it for a long time at a contest, the non flatland crowd would be in awe. Just like they would be if someone did a jump of doom.
I can only think of a few tricks that I would consider lame, even a boring power mower can be done with style to make it appealing, if thrown at the right time and stalled correctly. What I miss seeing is the super smooth riders, they seem very few and far between today, I guess it is because so many are brakeless. Sure brakeless is way harder, but the sketchiness that it brings with it all to often ruins the look of the tricks to me. I much prefer watching a smooth rider than someone who pulls bombs but is so sketchy they look like they may fall at any second.
In any case, flatland progresses, and gets harder by the year, to think that guys who are riding today would be able to pull some of the hard tricks of the late 80's and early 90's would typically mean they are focusing on things that are not common today (like brake feathering control, and scuffing) which is rare to say the least. I wish more guys would bring back the foot feathering from tricks like "the fly". There are so many possibilities that haven't been touched yet with that skill, and you very rarely see anyone do that stuff anymore, unless they learned it back then...
But, leave the leathers in the 80's.
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I love that "foot feathering"...it's the only way I scuff now! Fly into the trick, and just apply that pressure oh so right. And I agree...there are still many tricks to explore with that technique.
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I guess I just don't understand the mentality of looking backward when there is no indication that what joe is saying actually occurs in crowds any different than it did in the 1990s. They had the X games and BS series, that's why there was more spectator interest. That's it. There's nothing more to it.
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i'm getting a bit dizzy...
HA!
Most likely the only time Flatlanders get dizzy. Wrapping heads around thoughts...hehe
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I guess I just don't understand the mentality of looking backward when there is no indication that what joe is saying actually occurs in crowds any different than it did in the 1990s. They had the X games and BS series, that's why there was more spectator interest. That's it. There's nothing more to it.
I tend to agree with this actually. I just think revisiting some of the old stuff might help advance the sport in new ways and I'm only interested in this for the sake of the sport itself -- not for spectators.
If people are so damn concerned with gaining popularity then we just simply need more media coverage like there was in the 90's. Yes, that really is it.
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Wow, this has really grown into an awesome discussion.
Thanks!
To clarify. I am not passing judgement on any particular rider's style. I am merely stating my opinion, which is, laypeople -- do not have a clue what is going when watching Flatland of today. NEITHER DO YOU : OBVIOUSLY. They only see guys spinning in circles on one wheel turbining - for the most part.
You sound just like the "laypeople" Judging by your posts. Lets be honest JKA, do you really understand what todays pros are doing? do you really know how hard it is? I dont think you do.
To me, the 90s delivered the most diversity Flatland ever saw. So, I'm just suggesting those styles of scuffing tricks and wicked hard switches -- simply be integrated into todays runs in order to broaden the 'tricktionaries' (great word!) because I think it would be more appealing to potential spectators.
OH SHUT UP WITH THE SELLING OUT TO THE AUDIENCE AND POTENTIAL SPECTATORS BULLsh*t
That's all. I'm not knocking anyone who is progressing or on their own Flatland journey.
This kind of thing is not at all unique to today's Flatland. I remember sitting through AFA master runs of watching everyone pulling the latest and greatest tricks. BUT, back then -- there weren't as many tricks.
These days, there's virtually an endless quiver brimming with Flatland tricks and styles -- let's use em! YEAH LETS START WITH YOU. BY ALL MEANS -YOU FIRST, PLEASE SHOW US HOW IT|S DONE
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I tend to agree with this actually. I just think revisiting some of the old stuff might help advance the sport in new ways and I'm only interested in this for the sake of the sport itself -- not for spectators.
If it's about drawing inspiration though, that could come from an almost limitless variety of places depending on the rider. I never really thought up things looking backwards even though I bust out older videos quite a bit more often than people would assume. I just think people see the past through rose tinted glasses. I also think that people want to see older tricks because they cannot understand/relate to modern riding in any way. god help me if I ever get old and it happens to me that way. I just don't see why anyone would look at like the stuff the japanese guys are doing for example, and say "I really wish this was more inspired by 1995". it makes no sense.
If people are so damn concerned with gaining popularity then we just simply need more media coverage like there was in the 90's. Yes, that really is it.
Which we should just resign ourselves to the fact it will never ever happen and instead of catering to an audience that's never going to come we should do our own thing until we get noticed for our own merits.
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Fully agree that the X-Games and BS series got flatland out in front of the mainstream more than anything, but that ship has sailed. Without huge corporate sponsorship or a massive marketing budget, a flatland series doing something similar on it's own will be next to impossible. A better approach might be to piggyback onto existing events that are already established that appeal to a younger demographic (drifting/sport tuner stuff, music fedstivals, Fairs etc.) Selling a corporate sponsor on something with a built it crowd has a better chance than trying to start from the ground up.
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I also don't know how you could sell a corporate sponsor on scuffing VS the fast spinning and turbining in the sport now. There's a reason so many people try and do it (and often fail), it's because it's flash and cool looking. Yet we want to move away from that...why?
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Re-read the thread son...
No one is saying to move away from the current riding style, but to ADD a little bit of some of the flashier older tricks to the game. You know the crowd pleaser stuff.
To break it up a little.
Actually, anyone who watches Matt W will see he often drops all kinds of stuff in his shows, and runs. It is what makes him such a good flatlander. His style is wide open. New, old, and in between. It makes his stuff very fun to watch.
Terry Adams also comes to mind for this style.
Course the two of them have been riding a LONG time, and have huge tricktionaries. Which is the probably the reason many of the newer riders don't have those tricks in their bag...
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the discussion and that it didn't turn into a big fight (for or towards me anyways.) I've actually fallen very ill again and can barely prop myself up to type this, so i have to chill now for a while. My plan was to release the announcement of feeling slightly better and being on my bike (which i did). Then do a photo shoot and post that on Odyssey (photo shoot partly done and photos to come) and then of course an edit maybe by end of summer. But black mold is a f****ker and its duration of extent of effects are unknown. So right now i have no idea. But one thing is known. The small town in Northern Ontario called Elliot Lake where i go evry summer with my GF has a mall and the roof collapsed in near the grocery store part (where i would have shopped because it has more variety for my special diet). This happened today and 4 people died and 35 un-accounted for. And what was one of the culprits?...black mold of course. People who work there were reporting getting ill for years and nothing was done.
As for the main topic of the thread. The suggestion for people to toss in some older styles or twists on older styles...IMO would expand tricktionaries in general for those who chose to do it and might provide a surprising challenge for those who think that everything today is harder/better more interesting etc. But this is of course not the only way to expand tricktionaries because pushing strictly forward can do it as well.
Being a part of events that include other disciplines of BMX or different extreme sports is generally a proven way to have an established crowd already there.
IMO again, i don't think that crowd pleasing should play much if any part in what a rider learns and how he arranges them for contests. But yes, a bigger spectator base and mainstream coverage is the way to make it more popular both in getting more flatlanders started and opportunities for making a good living for Pros.
I truly wish i was well enough to do the kind of riding i've long envisioned myself doing. I could give examples of this "glimpses of 30 years of tricks in one combo" if i was at my best. So,sorry i can't contribute in that way, but i've been writing articles for the paper copy of ART on various topics for those who have or want to get a subscription.
Thanks again,
chase.
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This is the kind of bullsh*t joedumbass would like to see at contests.
佐賀んBMXスクール 上級 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2-lW8TWqv8#ws)
you can tell which parts are super lame. GARBO
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"How do the mechanistic processes of chemical secretions and neural impulses, these materialistic operations in our brains, produce something as non-physical as thought?"
If Mr "thisiswhatireallythink" can decipher who the "i" is that is doing the thinking that it "really does" then maybe he can begin to assume he is the prime mover and sole author of "his thoughts" then he might be able to determine if the older riding he sees is truly lame and garbage. But until then this (meaning "my") self in process will say a few things.
There were a few riders in that Japanese video one who was clearly new school and a couple guys only doing older style tricks. The one guy in pink nicknamed "Bugs Bunny" (who i met personally years ago) is probably near my age and has a mediocre ability and is entitled to have fun on his bike no matter what he's doing. So is the other guy doing older type stuff. And there is nothing wrong with the little street set up. Some of those really old school tricks were probably always intended for pure fun and even joking around and if you can't do that once in a while then you're missing the point of riding.
Any and all tricks are a part of the evolution of flatland. Some tricks like climbing around the bike and pedaling with the hands were done back in the early 1900's with a direct drive when there was only one or 2 styles of bicycles.
I wouldn't call any trick b****hit just because you think you personally done like the look of it.
In that video, nobody actually did a combo of multiple different styles of tricks that spanned 30 years giving examples of really old and really new tricks which is i was suggesting anyways.
There is room for everyone to ride and compete if they like and if there is no special class to separate the super awesome "new" tricks that seem to be the only cool thing to guys like you then there is no harm in the old school guys doing what they do...and don't worry, the new guys who you are ignorantly bias in favor of will still win the contest.
If it's ugly and it sucks it's because you have no interest or clue as to what made riding what it is today.
You don't have to like it, but you don't have to go overboard and call it garbage. If i get well enough i just might post some pics of me doing some really trash crap old tricks you'll be sure to hate.
It's too bad this thread, like many other have devolved into calling a part of the history of our sport a bunch of crap.
chase
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OMG. stop typing a short essay in every post!.
and what part of flatland history is taking ur shirt off and throwing it in the crowd? . pogos / doing tricks with 2 wheels on the ground tricks is S H I T .
and stop talking about yourself in every post. not everything is about you and your 30 year legacy. ok?
and stop trying to give us a history lesson all the time. grandpa.
and please learn to post informally. you're posting on an internet forum - not submitting a thesis.
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grandpa is probably busy composing his reply on a typewriter first.
lol.
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So i guess the hopping trick positions that led to the idea to roll in those positions that led to spin in those positions that led to turbine or pump in those positions were all sh*t and should never be done, especially in public, where guys like you get worried that people might catch a fleeting glimpse of the roots of flatland. No-one is saying or telling anyone to live in the past, but it is certainly not harmful to the sport for various riders of all generations to display tricks from previous eras once in a while. And yes, sometimes it takes some extra words to get this across. I personally feel no dislike for the awesome new styles being done and all that any sensible rider might request is that others don't label the history of our sport as crap. I don't think that's asking too much. Ignore it if you want, say you prefer newer style if you think you do based on your bias, but don't in one fell swoop call any trick that contributed to the fact that you even ride as sh*t. I think i am being reasonable and i just ask that you take a moment to pause and reflect on what i'm saying.
I can all but guarantee that when CW Rider John "Dizz" Hicks had his bike flipped upside down then dragged it back up while to the side of the bike that it likely inspired kevin jones to roll into a dump truck which led to spinning it and all that stuff. I can cite countless examples of the core roots of what led to the tricks you yourself think are cool and new, and you would think they are all ugly and trash and useless, even though without them, riding as it is today would not exist.
My girlfriend is a high school teacher and i know that when you are young (if you are) that being mean and nasty is the only way to be cool an appear knowledgeable when you have not yet developed empathy. Good luck with that my friend.
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OMG. stop typing a short essay in every post!.
and what part of flatland history is taking ur shirt off and throwing it in the crowd? . pogos / doing tricks with 2 wheels on the ground tricks is S H I T .
and stop talking about yourself in every post. not everything is about you and your 30 year legacy. ok?
and stop trying to give us a history lesson all the time. grandpa.
and please learn to post informally. you're posting on an internet forum - not submitting a thesis.
i cannot speak for everyone here, but i for one take you pretty seriously. I like the way you think. Im gonna be watching you. Enjoy your brunch, jka
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I can all but guarantee that when CW Rider John "Dizz" Hicks had his bike flipped upside down then dragged it back up while to the side of the bike that it likely inspired kevin jones to roll into a dump truck which led to spinning it and all that stuff. I can cite countless examples of the core roots of what led to the tricks you yourself think are cool and new, and you would think they are all ugly and trash and useless, even though without them, riding as it is today would not exist.
thats awesome. Exactly.
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I love seeing argumentative posts like this when some random new screen name pops up talking mad sh*t, and it's obvious that the screen name was created specifically to hide behind out of fear of real life retribution. And is this board seriously having another "you need to give props to old(er) school vs. f*ck that old sh*t" debate? Again?
Global-Flat, where the riding progresses daily but the bullsh*t will never change. Returning to hiatus mode. B)
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I would love to see a well composed combo that showed some tricks from different eras.
Multiple whiplash combo with variations to halflash to forward deathtruck to forward rope to backyard glide set down front wheel and go into backwards infinity roll switch to Cherry picker (Danny Meng sig trick).
MIami Overature to Stick B glide to Opposite Inside circle stick B to glide inside circle f*cktruck to half backward decade out to switch footed lardyard to crossfooted undertaker.
Just a couple that came to mind....
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Just keep the hopping tricks out of the era long links. They're something that should be forgotten. Like leathers.
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Windsurfer.... pretty bottom of the rung old school trick and a G-turn, a harder old school trick. Now combine them.
Windsurfer G-Turn.... The whip no handed is VERY hard, but that is what I envision when I think of bringing old school type tricks to the modern era of riding.
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I can agree with TJ on 1 point...riding in leathers did suck! thankfully i only did it once or twice! i miss the old vision/life's a beach pants though. so comfortable but they ripped too easy.
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Multiple Hangliders, to several new school Boomerangs, to Steamroller...to blah, blah, blah...dope link to combine the old and the new.
Multiple Cash Roll land on the back pegs, turbine those peg wheelies into a turbined F*cktruck.
G-String to multiple backwards Whiplashes, Elbow Glide to backwards Hitch. Cross those legs up to crossfooted Backpacker, turbine and in the middle go back to FWD Hitch. Pump the Hitch for a minute(gain your speed back). Drop to Steamroller, Funkychicken, Spastic Front Yard(Freak Squeak) to Chickwhips, Pitterpatter for a second, Pinky Squeaks, Decade out to Lardyard, come around and crossfooted Undertaker out...throw the Lawnmower in the last for style/goofin off points.
Damn, I wish my mediocre riding skills could keep up with my brain.
Also, frontwheel 720's are just plain awesome, no matter what era your riding comes from...
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Windsurfer.... pretty bottom of the rung old school trick and a G-turn, a harder old school trick. Now combine them.
Windsurfer G-Turn.... The whip no handed is VERY hard, but that is what I envision when I think of bringing old school type tricks to the modern era of riding.
Remember the guy doing Surfer Nosewheelies back in the late 80's, early 90's? Forget his name...
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Multiple Hangliders, to several new school Boomerangs, to Steamroller...to blah, blah, blah...dope link to combine the old and the new.
Multiple Cash Roll land on the back pegs, turbine those peg wheelies into a turbined F*cktruck.
G-String to multiple backwards Whiplashes, Elbow Glide to backwards Hitch. Cross those legs up to crossfooted Backpacker, turbine and in the middle go back to FWD Hitch. Pump the Hitch for a minute(gain your speed back). Drop to Steamroller, Funkychicken, Spastic Front Yard(Freak Squeak) to Chickwhips, Pitterpatter for a second, Pinky Squeaks, Decade out to Lardyard, come around and crossfooted Undertaker out...throw the Lawnmower in the last for style/goofin off points.
Damn, I wish my mediocre riding skills could keep up with my brain.
Also, frontwheel 720's are just plain awesome, no matter what era your riding comes from...
I rate this entire post 'Win.'
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I thought so too.^^^ It's not about old or new, it's about total bike control and mixing it up a bit. You showcase many skills and techniques and expand your tricktionary.
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Multiple Hangliders, to several new school Boomerangs, to Steamroller...to blah, blah, blah...dope link to combine the old and the new.
Multiple Cash Roll land on the back pegs (IDK WTF THAT IS, but it sounds like crap), turbine those peg wheelies into a turbined F*cktruck.
G-String to multiple backwards Whiplashes, Elbow Glide (UGLAY) to backwards Hitch. Cross those legs up to crossfooted Backpacker, turbine and in the middle go back to FWD Hitch. Pump the Hitch for a minute(gain your speed back). Drop to Steamroller, Funkychicken, Spastic Front Yard(Freak Squeak) to Chickwhips, Pitterpatter for a second, Pinky Squeaks, Decade out to Lardyard ( Is this a PILE OF sh*t), come around and crossfooted Undertaker out...throw the Lawnmower in the last for style/goofin off points.(this is so bad, i dont even know where to start....)
Damn, I wish my mediocre riding skills could keep up with my brain.(Your brain skills and creativity is pretty mediocre too).
Also, frontwheel 720's are just plain awesome, no matter what era your riding comes from...
I rate this entire post 'Win.' (Well done, Joedumbass)
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Sweet. I like your creative insults. Especially 'pile of sh*t' and how you reinvented my name to 'joedumbass.' I'm loling all over myself.
Seriously, you come off smart and not angry - like me, who is clearly furious.
Maybe someday you can use your creative smarts to engineer thriving threads in here like me.
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Sweet. I like your creative insults. Especially 'pile of sh*t' and how you reinvented my name to 'joedumbass.' I'm loling all over myself.
Seriously, you come off smart and not angry - like me, who is clearly furious.
Maybe someday you can use your creative smarts to engineer thriving threads in here like me.
Yeah, maybe one day I will. On the same day you get another person to co-sign one of your dumbass opinions.