Global-flat.com Board
English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: SurfonFlatland on January 06, 2012, 10:26:20 PM
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If a universal freecoaster shell were available that allowed you to use the internals of any freecoaster currently available on the market (even nankai) that would feature very strong needle bearings to allow you to run your freecoaster very tight without worry of destroying (crunching) your bearings or compromising how smooth the hub rolled, would you purchase this?
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bump
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Im sure everyone would buy it, but how would it work due to coasters having different size parts inside the coaster, such as the clutch,driver bearings ect? How would one make a shell that can adapt all the different internal widths of all the different types of coasters? Nankai and KHE coasters are totally different.
Not shooting it down, but how would this honestly work?
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Deadwing is right, this is kind of like asking for a magical freecoaster that you could throw any parts at and could work on, without the regard to how it should or could be put together, but still expect to have a working freecoaster. Sure, I’d like a wallet that fills up with money while we are asking for stuff, lol. Just kidding, but to me, this seems like a very impossibly hard task. Why not just make a bombproof freecoaster with needle bearings and a great resistor. Your work would be much less, yet still be very hard.
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I have to ask, SurfonFlatland, what is your mechanical background?
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6.5 years working for a bike shop, and a few engineering classes in school.
Just a question to get an idea of interest.
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Im sure everyone would buy it, but how would it work due to coasters having different size parts inside the coaster, such as the clutch,driver bearings ect? How would one make a shell that can adapt all the different internal widths of all the different types of coasters? Nankai and KHE coasters are totally different.
Not shooting it down, but how would this honestly work?
Interchangeable adapter pieces to make everything work.
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Good, so you have an understanding of how things come apart and go together. That's all I needed to know.
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So you would design a shell that would accept any other freecoasters internals, but it would use its own bearings.
Not trying to be a dick, but why would anyone want this? If you want to make a better freecoaster, than wouldn't it be easier to just design your own? Why is there a need to make this thing compatible with every other freecoaster?
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Ok how about to save you the hassle just do it for Nankai and Nankai bamboos? As that way it would hit the most interests with out having to make all the different parts for different hubs. Do a poll on here and see what hubs are rode the most. It was done once before and I "think" nankai won. ???
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Why is there a need to make this thing compatible with every other freecoaster?
Why not?
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The cost of making the internals is the expensive part of freecoasters most often. That being said. I think the mechanism and driver bearings are the areas that need the most refinement. Not so much the hub shell. Stronger bearings between the shell and driver would help a bit. But a few current hubs made to more exacting tolerances could help eliminate some of the play you feel in the hub too. Just my 2cents
Brian
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it could work but it would only be as good as the parts and if you are using the parts that already fail, they would fail again.
build a sealed nankai or a khe w a improved driver bearing or something like that...
The problems are with bearings, improper axle tolerances causing bearings to fail, play, and again bearings. Geisha light = fail for maintaining bearings feeling like new.
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Why is there a need to make this thing compatible with every other freecoaster?
Why not?
I could think of a few reasons at least. I was asking what yours was.
Sorry, I thought that was a legitimate question to ask.
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Why is there a need to make this thing compatible with every other freecoaster?
Why not?
I could think of a few reasons at least. I was asking what yours was.
Sorry, I thought that was a legitimate question to ask.
Universal freecoaster hub shell. Why? Let's say Bob (for example) runs a nankai, but he wants to try out a taska or a geisha and his friend, Greg (for example) has a spare taska or geisha lying around. All Bob has to do is pop in the internals and poof, a new wheel without the need to build up a new wheel. Just interchange the internals. Tired of your geisha constantly having play or crunching the bearings when you tighten it down to remove the play? Woops, the springs/clutch of that taska are worn down and destroyed, but that old nankai is collecting dust: poof, just change out the internals, and you're back to riding that same day.
Much in the way that you can take a geisha lite and convert it from 3-piece, 3/8" axle to a solid 14mm axle, this would allow you to do just that, but with most any modern freecoaster.
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Essentially a profile nankai shell without being a complete niche shell.
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Are you planning to do this? I mean do you have designs or is it just an idea right now? I would like to see some drawings or sketches or CAD of this if you can get them.
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Ok, so I'm down with the idea theoretically. Make the hub available in 36 and 48 hole and design the flange and shell to be radial lace capable without cracking flanges or deforming the bearing/adapter seats on the inside of the shell.
The hurdles I foresee are still related to tolerances though. Even if mulitple bearing race and cone adapters can be made to make this indeed Universal. Those pieces need to be held to an extremely high standard to be an improvement over the stock hubs. And how much variance is there in the manufacturing of said stock hubs that you can ensure the adapters will always work? I understand that angular contact needle bearings will afford you some leeway, but the interface between the adapter and the driver for instance could lead to some play? The more stuff the stack together the more potential for things to go wrong......Right??
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Even if this could be achieved; personally I think a universal shell with adaptors would be heavy and large compared to the stock shells we have, therefore, you would be at a disadvantage as far as comparative demand goes. A benefit of not having to build a new wheel only holds a little bit of merit too. In your analogy; "Bob" was riding a Nankai shell, not yours; in order for him to cheaply switch internals with Bill, he would have had to buy and build your shell up from the beginning, adding to his cost of his original coaster. Maybe he would have foreseen a problem with his Nankai and bought your shell but it better have some very nice bearings in order for him to buy it and look past the weight and the technical problems that he may not even understand. Furthermore, having peeps understand the coasters that are currently on the market is a bitch, throwing a complex set of adaptors, and several sets of internals that may fit will further the confusion the consumer may have. Nothing outlining benefits in this thread has shown me a good biz plan to even put the time into such a project. George French has some great ideas for coasters too, but the Bear Corporation has not been able to produce anything that could be profitable to the company or to even have ODSY Team riders test them. Improving on a current coaster may fill your needs. Look at what Zodiaceng.com has done with the KHE Reverse axle. Ken has been sex changing them and adding thrust bearings for a while now.
I'm sorry if I made fun in my first post, but these are Olympic sized hurtles, and to me, someone, anyone would need a little magic to pull this off and truly make it work. I love to be proved wrong though, so please make a success of this if you have such a passion and knowledge for this part. I'll buy one just to see how you made it work.
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This is basically what I was getting to. I don't think there really is a market for a device like this. Maybe if you could come up with something that would improve the hubs that are already out there, like a hop up kit for your freecoaster maybe. I would be interested in something like that.
But seriously, how often would the scenario you laid out actually happen? And if I put Geisha internals into your hub, because I want to try out a Geisha hub as you put it, am i actually trying out this hub? Or just a frankenstein version of it?
I too am not making fun of your idea at all. Just offering the constructive criticism that you asked for.
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If I were to purchase this hub I would want all new (improved?) guts to go inside of it too. Obviously you want to allow people choice to run whatever guts they like, but seems like here is the opportunity to improve upon what is already out there.
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is this for real or a joke?
if anyone needs advice i can be reached at ed@sickchildbikes.com
Holla! ALL DAY...
ed
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I think we'd be better off with a hub that would work with a currently existing cassette hub shell, like George's prototype from a few years ago. Also, it would be nice if a freecoaster could use existing cassette drivers (I've never had a cassette wheel so I don't know how they work internally), that way we wouldn't have to have things like the wildly expensive Nankai 9 tooth upgrade, and replacements would be readily available and easier to find. The less dedicated parts that have be designed and machined, the less expensive the hub is going to be. Less parts, less complex design, something that's cartridge sealed and reliable and easy to work on.
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OKay... im stirring the pot... A LOT!
We are all looking for a coaster with paws inside, correct? Something that is ALWAYS ENGAGED, or seems to be?
The most reliable way to do this would to be with a centrifugal force coming from the inside of a driver. a minimal pin length that would push outward spring action or just an outward pedaling force. The pins would push on paws... It would engage instantly as you pedal, as soon as you stop pedaling, it would disengage allowing it to go either direction without catching up...
Could also be used on vehicle transmissions to reduce fuel economy and use...
((this isnt my idea, i got it from a buddy of mine))
Matt