Global-flat.com Board

English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: smiley (Roy) on April 12, 2010, 05:55:49 AM

Title: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: smiley (Roy) on April 12, 2010, 05:55:49 AM
Intermediate:

01 Jim McKay
02 Lalo Jimenez
03 Fat Tony
04 Cody Ward
05 Mark Dandridge
06 Lea Dobrowski
07 Tyler Davis
08 Joey Felix

Veteran

01 Tony Strickler
02 Claud Hickman
03 Jason 'Dangus' Childers
04 Mark Dandridge
05 Mike Porter
06 Jeff 'Digger' Brown
07 Danny Harrison

Expert

01 Bryan Huffman
02 Johnathan Tamayo
03 Kelly Baldwin
04 Lee Edwards
05 Marty Clark
06 Joel Blatnicky
07 Alex Johnson
08 Omari Cato
09 Larry Grinder
10 Hector Garcia
11 Roy deGuzman
12 Austin Luberda
13 Steve Lapsley
14 Alexis LaGrassa

Masters

01 Jody Temple
02 George Vasquez
03 Isaiah Jordan
04 Percy Marshall
05 Tyler Gillard
06 Jon Dowker
07 Lachlan Cameron
08 Alex Poirier
09 Diego Tejada
10 Adam Diclaudio
11 Kenny Boucher
12 Prasheel Gopal
13 Ryan Russell
14 Todd Gulley
15 Mitch Hall
16 Koit
17 Ron Monis
18 Eric Wright

Pro

01 Matthias Dandois
02 Trevor Meyer
03 Shintaro Misawa
04 Matt Wilhelm
05 Terry Adams
06 Yohei "Uchie' Uchino
07 Viki Gomez
08 Alex Jumelin
09 Dane Beardsley
10 Chad Johnson
11 Effraim Catlow
12 JW 'Dubs' Prevost
13 Bo Wade
14 Aaron Frost
15 Joe Miller

 :beer: :beer: :beer:

-Roy
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: tod miller on April 12, 2010, 05:58:59 AM
Finally!!!!!!  Thanks for posting Roy! :beer:

Props to everyone, especially my Texas homies...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Flatism® on April 12, 2010, 06:01:56 AM
Go on the matthias!
He does it again!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: infeCt3d on April 12, 2010, 06:17:27 AM
ucchie and dane got ROBBED!!!

ROBBED I TELL YOU!!!  :huh:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stvnlpsly on April 12, 2010, 06:58:04 AM
A little update to the AM Flatland Circuit point standings...  Full update on the AM Flatland Circuit will be posted when I return home on Tuesday...

Expert Overall Standings
01 Bryan Huffman 333 pts
02 Alexi La Grassa 213 pts
03 Johnny Tamayo 206 pts
04 Lee Edwards 200 pts
05 Roy deGuzman 195 pts
06 Hector Garcia 152 pts
07 Joel Blatnicky 140 pts
08 Marty Clark 134 pts
09 Billy Gordon 115 pts
10 Joel Schallhorn 111 pts
11 Steve Lapsley 104 pts
12 Kelly Baldwin 101 pts

Master Overall Standings
01 Tyler Gilliard 308
02 Jon Dowker 296
03 Percy Marshall 260
04 Alex Poirier 236
04 Prasheel Gopal 236
05 Jody Temple 201
06 Isaiah Jordan 195
07 Lachlan Cameron 158
08 Koit 152
09 Diego Tejada 123
10 Ron Monis 121
11 George Vasquez 111
12 Todd Gully 105
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: wookie on April 12, 2010, 07:03:14 AM
Congrats to all.  STOKED to see Jody win the Masters class!  Major props to Lea in her first comp, Marty Clark on fourth and MTF Tony on a Vet class win.  Dayton is a looong couple months away, can't wait!

Brian
Title: Matthias wins JoMoPro
Post by: Mr News Bot on April 12, 2010, 08:02:04 AM
Matthias won the final of the JoMoPro contest. It was really great to watch the finals live online. Big thanks to the Byke Project for providing the live stream! You can watch the recorded footage on Ustream if you missed it: 24minutes + 74minutes.

1st Matthias Dandois
2nd Trevor Meyer
3rd Shintaro Misawa
4th Matt Wilhelm
5th Terry Adams
6th Yohei "Uchie´ Uchino
7th Viki Gomez
8th Alex Jumelin
Intermediate class winner: Jim McKay
Veteran class winner: Tony Strickler
Expert class winner: Bryan Huffman
Master class winner: Jody Temple

Roy posted the complete results in the forum.
Photo: Fat Tony / Ride
(http:///upload/media/2010-04-12-7-51-22matthiaswinsjm.jpg)
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Flatism® on April 12, 2010, 10:28:42 AM
OMFG!
Ucchie flippin smashed it!
Who were these judges :huh:??
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 12, 2010, 10:41:55 AM
OMFG!
Ucchie flippin smashed it!
Who were these judges :huh:??

Bobby Carter, Kelly Baldwin, Scott Powell, Lee HUCK Edwards, and Bryan Huffman.

Brian and Bobby at least had their heads on straight for that round.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ollie on April 12, 2010, 11:07:28 AM
OMFG!
Ucchie flippin smashed it!
Who were these judges :huh:??

I don't know. Ucchie was far better than Trevor in EVERY aspect! Originality, difficulty, dynamic and that was a faultless run. Pinky's beat ucchie, or jumelin cliffhanger or xfoot barride :huh: Ucchies run was mindblowing!!! Maybe the best run I've ever seen!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Flatism® on April 12, 2010, 12:42:03 PM
With that panel of judges, I'm even more shocked with the outcome now.
Very poor.
Anyway, everything else was fine. Enjoyed watching on USTREAM.
Props allround  :mellow:

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: top_rider on April 12, 2010, 01:31:06 PM
I dunno but  ;D
WHAT DA F*** were the judges thinking? I mean look at Ucchie's run. no touch. smooth as f*** ..versus Trevor's run?
Damn the judges should have had their brains washed.  :huh:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: indyBarber73 on April 12, 2010, 02:51:43 PM
I noticed that alot of very skilled riders are riding in classes that they REALLY should not be in,so could somebody please tell me what class I should ride in in Dayton.I want to represent Indy in the right way,not embarass the total f*ck out of our city.Congrats to Martti Clark and his beard for the kick ass spot he ended up in,rock on brotha,can't wait to ride with every one and meet some new faces.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: wookie on April 12, 2010, 03:36:21 PM
Just watched the recorded earlier battles.  Now I see what everyone was complaining about.  What Ucchie may have lacked in variety he MORE than made up for in difficulty and trick quantity!  Glad to see Trevor back, but he got beat in my opinion.

Brian
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Wouter van der Linde on April 12, 2010, 04:24:00 PM
what! good job jim!!
nice!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Burd on April 12, 2010, 04:35:44 PM
Just watched the recorded earlier battles.  Now I see what everyone was complaining about.  What Ucchie may have lacked in variety he MORE than made up for in difficulty and trick quantity!  Glad to see Trevor back, but he got beat in my opinion.

Brian

Trevor shrugged after they showed the results as if he thought Ucchie probably should have won as well.  The manual to whopper Ucchie pulled as his last trick was killer...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stopkaiross on April 12, 2010, 04:56:28 PM
ucchie's cross-foot, pedal, backwards crazyness made my night.

When the judges gave Trevor the win my stomach sank and I felt a little sick. I just felt bad for uchie...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Luke on April 12, 2010, 05:58:41 PM
ucchie's cross-foot, pedal, backwards crazyness made my night.

When the judges gave Trevor the win my stomach sank and I felt a little sick. I just felt bad for uchie...

yea as soon I saw that I turned it off and went riding  :huh:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 12, 2010, 06:36:40 PM
With that panel of judges, I'm even more shocked with the outcome now.
Very poor.



I'm not. At all.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Stereolab on April 12, 2010, 07:03:26 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I haven't yet watched the video.

The consensus seems to be that Ucchie did better than Trevor...but I have to assume that Trevor rode well also.  One thing I'm surprised people aren't talking about is that this is a risk you take when contests are in this battle format.  If the contest had been in a more traditional format (let's say eight people qualify and they each get two two-minute runs, not "battling" anyone in particular)...hypothetically Trevor could have gotten second if the judges thought he was a little better, but then maybe Ucchie could have gotten third, and then maybe people wouldn't be so disappointed as they are with Ucchie finishing as an afterthought in sixth.

I think the "battle" system is fine for determining a champion, as the guy who wins every battle clearly deserves to win, but I think all the placings after that can be taken with a grain of salt.  Just like there are no "placings" at the end of the March Madness basketball tournament...you either win or you don't.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 12, 2010, 07:11:21 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I haven't yet watched the video.

The consensus seems to be that Ucchie did better than Trevor...but I have to assume that Trevor rode well also.  One thing I'm surprised people aren't talking about is that this is a risk you take when contests are in this battle format.  If the contest had been in a more traditional format (let's say eight people qualify and they each get two two-minute runs, not "battling" anyone in particular)...hypothetically Trevor could have gotten second if the judges thought he was a little better, but then maybe Ucchie could have gotten third, and then maybe people wouldn't be so disappointed as they are with Ucchie finishing as an afterthought in sixth.



No, the problem is that Trevor and Ucchie rode against one another, and the judges gave it to Trevor.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: infeCt3d on April 12, 2010, 07:15:36 PM
ucchie's cross-foot, pedal, backwards crazyness made my night.

When the judges gave Trevor the win my stomach sank and I felt a little sick. I just felt bad for uchie...

yea as soon I saw that I turned it off and went riding  :huh:

lol bro thats the same thing i did... i told everyone bye and went riding.  But anyways if you look at the video and look at UCCHIE when the judges announce the winner.  He was already happy knowing HE WON!! and when he found out the outcome.. his body language was enough =(  We might not see ucchie no more in U.S. contests.  =[
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: villetgk on April 12, 2010, 07:21:38 PM
"indyBarber73:
I noticed that alot of very skilled riders are riding in classes that they REALLY should not be in,so could somebody please tell me what class I should ride in in Dayton."






I am kinda in the same boat as you!!! I have my run pretty consistent now,except for this one 1/2 foot *safety* touch, but I guess I need to watch this years contest footage to see where I should be.  I still have a few more weeks to add some things to my run, but also don't know a time limit I should be looking at either. 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jazzman on April 12, 2010, 08:02:55 PM
OMFG!
Ucchie flippin smashed it!
Who were these judges :huh:??

Bobby Carter, Kelly Baldwin, Scott Powell, Lee HUCK Edwards, and Bryan Huffman.

Brian and Bobby at least had their heads on straight for that round.
I know bryan voted for ucchie...  just wanted to make that clear.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 12, 2010, 08:05:47 PM
OMFG!
Ucchie flippin smashed it!
Who were these judges :huh:??

Bobby Carter, Kelly Baldwin, Scott Powell, Lee HUCK Edwards, and Bryan Huffman.

Brian and Bobby at least had their heads on straight for that round.
I know bryan voted for ucchie...  just wanted to make that clear.

I know he did too. He is consistently one of the most level headed and qualified judges I've ever seen.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ollie on April 12, 2010, 08:49:21 PM


I recommend to Jomopro to send an OFFICIAL APOLOGY to UCCHIE!




hmm :huh:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: thestraw on April 12, 2010, 09:14:17 PM
i don't  really feel like trying to find out which battle it was at the moment, but i judged the voodoo jam that ucchie won.  i remember it was prob the first battle and i thought he easily lost to whomever he was against.  i was in that minority and ucchie won the contest, whilst i thought someone had been ripped off.  whatever didn't do it for me in the battle i voted against he made up for cuz i thought he won everything after that.  my point is, this kinda stuff still happens at prob every contest.  it's not trevor's fault
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: radoaos on April 12, 2010, 09:35:42 PM
I usually chat with Huffman after every contest.  He has probably forgotten more tricks than most of us will ever learn.  None of the other judges lacked experience either.  Sometimes people might get caught in what they want to see, versus what is actually happening.  I don't want to hate on the judges too much, because it isn't an easy job.  Maybe we should just accept since this sport doesn't have points / goals / definitive times, we can't have a quantifiable winner, and someone will always feel ripped off at every contest.

On a side note, Huffman is about to run away with the am circuit for expert.  Although I think a lot of people feel he should have rode master.  I'll be sure to give him a hard time at the NC jam in May.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 12, 2010, 09:43:07 PM
I usually chat with Huffman after every contest.  He has probably forgotten more tricks than most of us will ever learn.  None of the other judges lacked experience either.  Sometimes people might get caught in what they want to see, versus what is actually happening.  I don't want to hate on the judges too much, because it isn't an easy job.  Maybe we should just accept since this sport doesn't have points / goals / definitive times, we can't have a quantifiable winner, and someone will always feel ripped off at every contest.


Huffman is a great guy and like I said I think he is an incredibly solid judge. A few of the others I think are not, and based on what I've heard from a few people now about the other judges rationale for why they made the calls they did, it's pretty obvious they had some heavy bias towards one style over the other.

It's not that difficult to judge. It REALLY isn't.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 12, 2010, 09:44:52 PM
i don't  really feel like trying to find out which battle it was at the moment, but i judged the voodoo jam that ucchie won.  i remember it was prob the first battle and i thought he easily lost to whomever he was against.  i was in that minority and ucchie won the contest, whilst i thought someone had been ripped off.  whatever didn't do it for me in the battle i voted against he made up for cuz i thought he won everything after that.  my point is, this kinda stuff still happens at prob every contest.  it's not trevor's fault

+1 in no way shape or form should anyone blame..or have words for trevor... Its just flatland semantics..f*cking rip off.. Im sure trev didnt want his ass kissed like that. Ucchie ripped it..And in my opinion...Dane stomped down on Alex..Because if "ucchie lacked variety" then..what makes alex j's riding so full of variety....
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: joelweevil on April 12, 2010, 10:03:15 PM
^ could it be a lack of soap?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Vic Román on April 12, 2010, 10:28:10 PM
^ could it be a lack of soap?
;D
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Scott O on April 12, 2010, 11:32:01 PM
With that panel of judges, I'm even more shocked with the outcome now.
Very poor.



I'm not. At all.

Im not either. There where some guys up there with little experience. Also they may have been lacking some leadership as too requirements and what you should look for as a judge especially to the inexperienced judge.
Even though I may disagree, I do not blame them. They were asked to make a judgement and they did just that.

You have to hold the event responsible. If you want quality judges you have to go out and get them.

For the record , I watched and do not agree with the Trevor over Ucchie. I was blown away. What were they thinking. If it was variety then I would have to say what Ucchie did was so far in advance of Trevor that it blew Variety right out of the way.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: PSchoolen on April 12, 2010, 11:49:17 PM
I wont get into the Ucchie/Trevor decision much but I will explain our judges and their qualifications:

Head Judge was Bobby Carter. Bobby has judged many contests all over the world and has proven his worth many times.

Scott Powell. Deep amount of experience both in judging and riding at the pro level. Very analytical person and excellent in this position.

Bryan Huffman. As someone else said, he has forgotten more tricks than most of us have learned. Also very experienced at judging and did a phenomenal job at last year's jomopro.

Lee Edwards. Consistent top expert rider, older and very experienced as is all of the judges. Judged Jomopro last year and did a perfect job.

Kelly Baldwin. Another top expert rider with a lot of experience. Like Lee and Bryan, he judged Jomopro last year and impressed me.

The quality of judges really could not be improved upon. These guys also have the hardest job at any event. Almost terrifyingly difficult and they deserve respect and gratitude for what they give back to flatland by judging an event like this.

The judges that gave the nod to Trevor in this battle can back up their decision. They explained their decision to me after the event when I asked. I am sure at some point one of them will come on here and explain it for everyone else.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 12, 2010, 11:57:50 PM
If the judgeing stuck with a format then you probably cant blame the judging. I’ve judged contest's where consistency out shined everything in the final tally. I’ve judged contest's where it was on par with every other category. If variety was a category and it counts as much as either difficulty or originality...you going to end up with easier I mean...we dont want to watch less quality riding just so we make sure someone is on both wheels...which I hope isn’t the simple criteria of "variety".

I mean in reality a rider could spend all day on the front wheel and still have more variety than some people doing both wheels. I mean if people do nothing but pivot or they do nothing but flips/bar flips. They might not be a full of the variety they are thinking.

Is there any info on how the judging panned out scoring wise? What format was used?

Was it a basic four category added up or something?
 A or B


A)   you fully follow the promoters formula for judging and even give people an upper hand you yourself don’t even feel won.

Or

B)   arbitrarily say "F it” and just choose.

Either way can end flawed. You cant just pull it out your ass “he won” with no science because your liable to just pick your favorite rider that makes you smile despite walking though his whole run. Or whatever reasons. Or you could have a fundamentally flawed j system that does something like count difficulty more than anything with people trying hard stuff but walking out most of their run.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 12, 2010, 11:58:52 PM
oops...i was asking this and typing it while I guess Pat was answering.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pralex on April 13, 2010, 12:13:35 AM
Scott Powell has consistently talked down upon pumping, that right there should be enough to not let him judge.  Trevor Meyer's run against Ucchie would've been lucky to place him first in Master class.  I have nothing against Trevor, I have watched countless insane video parts by him, but his riding at this contest, was not even close to the level the rest of the pros were on.

So, here we go, Trevors run:
-brakeless pinky squeaks (I did those in my Master run)
-double whiplash (Prasheel did four whips in his run)
-hiker jugglers (Prasheel did them in his run)
-cliffhanger with foot on bar (alex j I believe invented this, so its not original)
-megaspins to decade (I can do this, but feel as though it wouldn't even stand up in Master class so I don't bother with it in contest)

Most of the battles I agreed on, or thought they were close enough that judging was fair.  But for Trevor's two battles, it was clear that the judging was f*ckED UP.

I had a ridiculous amount of fun this past weekend, but this almost ruined it.  To see a guy come all the way from Japan, clearly win, and get robbed because of this bullsh*t.  I probably wouldn't come back to a contest in North America is I was Ucchie, he seemed to be a good sport about it though. But this is important.  I've very rarely got upset about pro judging in North America, but this was just f*cking disgusting.

Lost any respect I had for four judges this past weekend, expect some Pralex videos coming soon ridiculing the judges (minus Bryan Huffman).

-Alex Poirier
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 13, 2010, 12:21:07 AM
uh oh..I see a Pralex versus Trevor video on the horizon. 



 ;D
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jm on April 13, 2010, 12:21:28 AM
I hope that the judging and lack of a dj will not discourage riders from returning to what was otherwise the best contest I've ever seen.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pralex on April 13, 2010, 12:24:07 AM
I hope that the judging and lack of a dj will not discourage riders from returning to what was otherwise the best contest I've ever seen.

I will be back next year strictly on the fact that Paul (one of the organizers) is awesome, and he really doesn't know anything about the flatland world, so its not like you can blame him.  And who knew that the judging would be complete sh*t until it happened.  They also asked us several times if we wanted to take over and be the DJ's, but I was way to enthralled in watching the rest of the riders compete.

Quote
uh oh..I see a Pralex versus Trevor video on the horizon. 

I have nothing but respect for Trevor Meyer.  Pralex versus the judges video on the horizon...Very possible.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: pawnshopmike on April 13, 2010, 12:39:53 AM
I hope that the judging and lack of a dj will not discourage riders from returning to what was otherwise the best contest I've ever seen.
+1 JoMOPro 2010 was insane fun! I wish people would quit focusing so much on one item and just enjoy the overall success of this years event. We had riders from SIX countries in the Pro Finals! That is amazing in only the second year of this event. Just the fact that Trevor is back in the game after all these years is a great thing. Please don't ruin this for him. I see JoMOPro only getting better and better. My only regret is that I was unable to attend the first 2 days. I had the must fun ever yesterday watching all my idols ride their hearts out.
Perhaps the best part was walking away with Matthias' shirt. And it only cost me $30 large! The only bad thing about that is my wife and daughter have to fight over it ;D
Huge props to everyone who attended, competed, organized, donated, filmed etc etc Thanks to all!  :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: katobmx on April 13, 2010, 12:45:32 AM
I hope that the judging and lack of a dj will not discourage riders from returning to what was otherwise the best contest I've ever seen.
+1. Don't let all of this judging stuff full you. This was an amazing contest. It was well organized. I think one of the craziest things was that all of the organizers where volunteers. for 3-4 days they did alot of work for free. Alot of them said watching all of us was payment enough! I'm coming back next year. So should you. :mellow:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 12:54:09 AM
I wont get into the Ucchie/Trevor decision much but I will explain our judges and their qualifications:

Head Judge was Bobby Carter. Bobby has judged many contests all over the world and has proven his worth many times.

Scott Powell. Deep amount of experience both in judging and riding at the pro level. Very analytical person and excellent in this position.

Bryan Huffman. As someone else said, he has forgotten more tricks than most of us have learned. Also very experienced at judging and did a phenomenal job at last year's jomopro.

Lee Edwards. Consistent top expert rider, older and very experienced as is all of the judges. Judged Jomopro last year and did a perfect job.

Kelly Baldwin. Another top expert rider with a lot of experience. Like Lee and Bryan, he judged Jomopro last year and impressed me.

The quality of judges really could not be improved upon. These guys also have the hardest job at any event. Almost terrifyingly difficult and they deserve respect and gratitude for what they give back to flatland by judging an event like this.

The judges that gave the nod to Trevor in this battle can back up their decision. They explained their decision to me after the event when I asked. I am sure at some point one of them will come on here and explain it for everyone else.
I can almost smell the lock down  ;D sounds like fun was had by all then...  so who went and didn't ride?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: douchebag on April 13, 2010, 12:54:43 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/I9f5m.gif)
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: AB on April 13, 2010, 01:05:43 AM

Lost any respect I had for four judges this past weekend, expect some Pralex videos coming soon ridiculing the judges (minus Bryan Huffman).

-Alex Poirier

I'm rarely moved enough to respond to most of the bickering on here, but this just sounds petty. No matter how fair or unfair the judging was, ridiculing the judges as a response should be beneath all of us. Applaud the efforts of all the people who put time and money into the event and suggest some constructive improvements for next time. Put your efforts there my man.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pralex on April 13, 2010, 01:09:44 AM
Quote
I'm rarely moved enough to respond to most of the bickering on here, but this just sounds petty. No matter how fair or unfair the judging was, ridiculing the judges as a response should be beneath all of us. Applaud the efforts of all the people who put time and money into the event and suggest some constructive improvements for next time. Put your efforts there my man.

I thanked most of the people involved personally after the event.  I have no constructive criticism for the event, it was essentially perfect.  Possibly the best event I've been too.  I let the people who organized this, know this.  Just as I'm letting the judges know, they seriously screwed up.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 13, 2010, 01:16:25 AM
Yes..despite flatland semantics..DO NOT! Let that sway you from coming...Top notch facillity..Top notch respect from the people in charge of the venue..And just a top notch town with everything easily accessible for biking distance.

The judging upset me..Yes..it did. But i will get over that, but i do feel a path to correct this should be erected a.s.a.p. In its second year, jomo f*cking ROCKED! So stoked to turn all these internet names to actual faces.

Hi lites of the week/end for me were:
Bryan huffman leaving some, still usable barends for me to *recycle* Also being the only judge to remain seated after the controversial battle

Team Pralex being absolutely f*cking awesome! you guys rock

J*DUB* Prevost..Ugh, guys amazing and seriously on his way to the top

Lalo is a nut, talked with this guy forever and finally met him

Spending a solid week with ucchie and effraim only to be joined by viki later in the week.

Paul Covey..Ugh..i swear that dude walked a 100 miles in his own venue, totally awesome guy..words honestly dont describe paul.

Meeting Mr.Kerry..Dogs a celeb..I mean Ganji crew f*ckn rocks, but Mr.Kerry is CHILL

Cali crew is the sh*t, hung with them and the TX crew last nite.

and my number one hilite...Walking out of there, and seeing so many non flatlanders, flatlanders young and old, street riders..kids..YOU NAME IT..Absolutely STOKED on flatland being right there in there hometown/close to them. I had a conversation with a 65 year old man, who was absolutely blown away..His wife kept saying over and over..WHY is this not in the olympics.

A long tip of the hat goes out to the people working the Bridge/Jomopro, Pat/Katie at flatlandfuel because without you..JoMo flat is non existant. Id also like to thank Ucchie, Viki, and Effraim most importantly for making the trip over here and tolerating my ass for a week hahaha. Good times fell
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ne- stone on April 13, 2010, 01:42:24 AM
Scott Powell has consistently talked down upon pumping, that right there should be enough to not let him judge.  Trevor Meyer's run against Ucchie would've been lucky to place him first in Master class.  I have nothing against Trevor, I have watched countless insane video parts by him, but his riding at this contest, was not even close to the level the rest of the pros were on.

So, here we go, Trevors run:
-brakeless pinky squeaks (I did those in my Master run)
-double whiplash (Prasheel did four whips in his run)
-hiker jugglers (Prasheel did them in his run)
-cliffhanger with foot on bar (alex j I believe invented this, so its not original)
-megaspins to decade (I can do this, but feel as though it wouldn't even stand up in Master class so I don't bother with it in contest)

Most of the battles I agreed on, or thought they were close enough that judging was fair.  But for Trevor's two battles, it was clear that the judging was f*ckED UP.

I had a ridiculous amount of fun this past weekend, but this almost ruined it.  To see a guy come all the way from Japan, clearly win, and get robbed because of this bullsh*t.  I probably wouldn't come back to a contest in North America is I was Ucchie, he seemed to be a good sport about it though. But this is important.  I've very rarely got upset about pro judging in North America, but this was just f*cking disgusting.

Lost any respect I had for four judges this past weekend, expect some Pralex videos coming soon ridiculing the judges (minus Bryan Huffman).

-Alex Poirier

You got the right beat man!!
I dont know in which planet the judges were in this comp but WHAT A DISGRACE!
Even more disgraceful is to know that the judges are all veterans within the sport as riders and judges.

Well over 30 years of flatland Everybody is tired to know that when comes to competition THE EVOLUTION OF ULTIMATE MOVES(TRICKS)IS A MUST,thats what all riders must be about period.

Everybody is tired to know that dispite his talent TREVOR is the most shameless STYLEROBBER and TRICKROBBER in the history of flatland(nowadays he still cant get over it),therefore having the judges witnessed the man doing ALEXS CLIFFHANGER FOOT ON THE BAR (raw) and disqualifying the japanese with a FLAWLESS "ULTIMATE MINDBLOWING COMBOS TRICKS" is embarrassing and disgusting A POINTBLANK ROBBERY ON THE JAPANESE
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pralex on April 13, 2010, 01:48:56 AM
Scott Powell has consistently talked down upon pumping, that right there should be enough to not let him judge.  Trevor Meyer's run against Ucchie would've been lucky to place him first in Master class.  I have nothing against Trevor, I have watched countless insane video parts by him, but his riding at this contest, was not even close to the level the rest of the pros were on.

So, here we go, Trevors run:
-brakeless pinky squeaks (I did those in my Master run)
-double whiplash (Prasheel did four whips in his run)
-hiker jugglers (Prasheel did them in his run)
-cliffhanger with foot on bar (alex j I believe invented this, so its not original)
-megaspins to decade (I can do this, but feel as though it wouldn't even stand up in Master class so I don't bother with it in contest)

Most of the battles I agreed on, or thought they were close enough that judging was fair.  But for Trevor's two battles, it was clear that the judging was f*ckED UP.

I had a ridiculous amount of fun this past weekend, but this almost ruined it.  To see a guy come all the way from Japan, clearly win, and get robbed because of this bullsh*t.  I probably wouldn't come back to a contest in North America is I was Ucchie, he seemed to be a good sport about it though. But this is important.  I've very rarely got upset about pro judging in North America, but this was just f*cking disgusting.

Lost any respect I had for four judges this past weekend, expect some Pralex videos coming soon ridiculing the judges (minus Bryan Huffman).

-Alex Poirier

You got the right beat man!!
I dont know in which planet the judges were in this comp but WHAT A DISGRACE!
Even more disgraceful is to know that the judges are all veterans within the sport as riders and judges.
Well over 30 years of flatland Everybody is tired to know that when comes to competition THE EVOLUTION OF ULTIMATE MOVES(TRICKS)IS A MUST,thats what all riders must be about period.
Everybody is tired to know that dispite his talent TREVOR is the most shameless STYLEROBBER and TRICKROBBER in the history of flatland(nowadays he still cant get over it),therefore having the judges witnessed the man doing ALEXS CLIFFHANGER FOOT ON THE BAR (raw) and disqualifying the japanese with a FLAWLESS "ULTIMATE MINDBLOWING COMBOS TRICKS" is embarrassing and disgusting A POINTBLANK ROBBERY ON THE JAPANESE


I disagree with 99% of what you just posted.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 02:02:38 AM
The judges that gave the nod to Trevor in this battle can back up their decision. They explained their decision to me after the event when I asked. I am sure at some point one of them will come on here and explain it for everyone else.

They can't explain the decision of one round without discrediting themselves in another. They can't back up their decision because I've heard what their rationale was and it is absolutely mind boggling how three of them were allowed to judge. I don't care how hard it appears judging is, if you drop your bias at the door and bring enough experience to the table, it's not that hard. Clearly, some of the judges didn't do one of those two things.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jm on April 13, 2010, 03:13:03 AM
I'd like to see this fixation on the Ucchie vs. Trevor battle end.

 All in all, this was an absolutely INCREDIBLE event at a location that surpassed anyone's hopes. It was pretty much the best thing ever, my only regret now is seeing the online crowd brushing all that aside and making the whole event about a judgement call, when there are literally 10,000 positive things to say that are not being said.  The facility, hotels, gas, food, and dive bars on the same block were off the hook. 

Regardless of the opinions on who is a better rider, I'm coming to this event every year for as long as it continues, and I hope that more of you do the same. Also, I'd like to give major bro-hugs to the staff who outdid themselves with hospitality and kindness, including Paul Covey, who is obviously an angel trapped in a rad dude's body. Anyone that was not there missed out on the biggest and best bmx event of the year.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: pawnshopmike on April 13, 2010, 03:29:25 AM
What Jim said. Man is spot on.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stopkaiross on April 13, 2010, 03:40:02 AM
I'd like to see this fixation on the Ucchie vs. Trevor battle end.

... my only regret now is seeing the online crowd brushing all that aside and making the whole event about a judgement call

sorry but the"online crowd" only got to experience the competition, so it's what we are able to discuss (that and apparently the attractiveness of Chad's wife)

 So you are going to come back next year? cool, will Ucchie?  Would the event be so fun if no pros showed up?   Well the pros show up to win, not just to be cool dudes.  Bad comp -> less incentives for pros -> less incentives for newbs -> tiny turnouts where no one has fun.  We arn't trying to be wet blankets, we are just somewhat dumbfounded and appalled I think  ;D


 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Rad255 on April 13, 2010, 03:52:35 AM
I seriously hope Uchie comes back. I've met a few of these judges at an event and just being around them rubbed me the wrong way. That's a f*cking shame.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: joelweevil on April 13, 2010, 03:56:49 AM
but there's a difference between being dumbfounded and being a cock smoker. There are vids with Trevor doing that backwards spinny hold the bars and fork/front wheel that are a year old. And all you gotta do is look for 'em. With that said, it was great to see Trevor come out to the contest. Who here likes any other sports? Do you go on your la cross forums and stir a sh!t stew? We got some narrow-minded people around here.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stopkaiross on April 13, 2010, 04:08:07 AM
but there's a difference between being dumbfounded and being a cock smoker. There are vids with Trevor doing that backwards spinny hold the bars and fork/front wheel that are a year old. And all you gotta do is look for 'em. With that said, it was great to see Trevor come out to the contest. Who here likes any other sports? Do you go on your la cross forums and stir a sh!t stew? We got some narrow-minded people around here.
First of all- cock smoker? Some one has internet muscles! I was actually quite eloquent and reasonable, but you felt the need to act like a 12 year old, kudos.

Second- what tricks Trevor can do outside of the comp really doesn't matter now does it?

Third- I like other sports.  I do go online and try to understand rules calls I don't understand all the time; for sports like: MMA, volleyball, curling, and bike racing (tour de france and all) just to name a few.   I fail to see how I am narrow minded for wanting to discuss something, it seems to me the narrow minded thing is to just forget about it happening.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on April 13, 2010, 04:08:42 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: top_rider on April 13, 2010, 04:17:19 AM
Trevor is a legend. I agree. I'm glad he came back to competitions. I've seen a lot of sick vids of him on the internet. But he didn't do enough to win over Ucchie in this battle.
So some guys here ask everyone to watch Trevor's old vids to convince Trevor was sick and truly won ? No. It's all about the battle there in Jomopro
Nothing more to say with the F****** judges.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jsteady on April 13, 2010, 04:18:45 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 04:25:50 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Rad255 on April 13, 2010, 04:35:58 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.

I actually conversed with the people I'm talking about as opposed to sneaking pictures ya bitch.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 04:44:34 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.

I actually conversed with the people I'm talking about as opposed to sneaking pictures ya bitch.
Did you compete? and BTW you do know you're name........... ^_^   I think you mean't SNITCH as in reference to you crying to Karl  ^_^
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Nesquik on April 13, 2010, 04:45:43 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.

I actually conversed with the people I'm talking about as opposed to sneaking pictures ya bitch.
Calling him a bitch...? I hope its sarcastic....

Anyway, honestly its done, theres nothing you can do about it. If they say he won, he won. Even if everyone disagrees. Its not like its the last competition for the guy. Stuff like this happens in all sports that have a judging system.

Too bad this wont stop you guys from bitchin, haha
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: villetgk on April 13, 2010, 04:55:01 AM
"Rad255:
 I've met a few of these judges at an event and just being around them rubbed me the wrong way. That's a f*cking shame."



OH JESUS CHRIST!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Nesquik on April 13, 2010, 04:56:39 AM
OH JESUS CHRIST!
HE WAS A JUDGE?!?!?!

Everyone stop disagreeing with the decision now.

 ^_^
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on April 13, 2010, 05:09:10 AM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.

Ahhh Juggarnaut... always entertaining. Let's consider 2 points of fairly common sense:

1) The videos are up, and the footage doesn't lie. For people that ACTUALLY RIDE THEIR BIKES AS OPPOSED TO JUST "PIMPING" THEM OUT AND JERKING OFF TO THEM and know something decent about trick difficulty, a valid "opinon" based upon the footage isn't hard to formulate.

2) Both guys have legit reasons for not competing here again if they choose not too: Uchie for flying around the world (and he's an old friend of mine from my time living in Japan mind you) only to lose an obviously lopsided battle and Trevor for not wanting to have to deal with more contest drama on top of the years and years of it that he endured throughout almost the entire B.S. contest series, through the X-Games, on into numerous other comps, and than now. Uchie and Trevor are both really cool guys and are probably over it, which is great. But again, IF YOU ACTUALLY RODE, and ever considered entering a contest, being upset about the judging at an otherwise nice comp that could possibly evolve into a place that flatland could get some much needed exposure isn't "crying" about anything.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Rad255 on April 13, 2010, 05:15:27 AM
Sarcastic? What? Seriously Juggarnaut can you go play or something? The grown ups are talking.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Flatgod on April 13, 2010, 05:23:03 AM
Here's another reason as to why I believe many pros are not competing when they could be. In many cases it doesn't matter how hard you throw down or how well you rode; The same people will come out on top regardless. In this case it sort of takes out the point of competing altogether. If we want more pros (American or otherwise) to compete, there needs to be better judging that will attract more riders. In this sense, bad judging most certainly hurts flatland in general whereas better judging would attract a lot more people and make the event even bigger.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 05:27:02 AM
Well it seems all you got to say is the same worn out sh*t about my bikes . I don't have an Opinion about this Contest, because I wasn't there, I was working and building bikes for my American Bike Project all weekend....But remember this............you asked for it ;D
 I just can't see what ya'll expect to happen by crying online about this......I'll tell ya what'll happen, NOTHING! Except next year those same Judges could be YOUR judges....Pat said he stands behind them and their decision, Snoop said he had a great time, Why do ya'll have to cry about whats bad, Just focus on the Good things for a change. Did those 2 have you stand up and defend them? Poor little boys.

  
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 05:29:10 AM
Sarcastic? What? Seriously Juggarnaut can you go play  or something? The grown ups are talking.
A simple question,,,Did you compete?  A simple answer would be Yes or No.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: HUCK on April 13, 2010, 05:29:33 AM
Bobby Carter-Expert on the sport, travels to Japan regularly, judged many Japanese and American comps. Very un-biased person.
Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.
Me and Kelly, well we just love the sport and have been in flatland for over 20 years each. And we actually have different tastes in riding. But I'd like to think Kelly is as un-biased as I am.
Those are our credentials. We all felt very good about our decisions. If we weren't qualified I feel confident someone from the crowd,(rider that is), would have spoke up.
But I can tell you this, if you go to the flag raising and pay very close attention to me I almost fainted from the pressure. This wasn't an easy decision for any of us to make. I was on the fence. I respect both riders and feel they each have phenominal skills.
It was 4 to 1. If it were 3 to 2, that would have been a little harder to explain. Thanks, Huck
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 05:44:39 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: HUCK on April 13, 2010, 05:52:02 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?

TJ, even if they do, what's this prove? I love pumping. As so does Bobby. It was 4 to 1. Uchie did his regular minute and a half of turbine pegwheelies with a reverse pedal time machine and a spastic rope-a-ronie crammed in the middle. Trevor brought variety. Front wheel and back wheel. Pro-level tricks and a cross-footed grip ride. It was 4 to 1, not 3 to 2. That would have been harder to explain if myself or Bobby voted for Uchie I believe.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SIN on April 13, 2010, 05:55:21 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?

i dont mind people pumping tricks but when it looks like their "Humping" instead of "Pumping" than im not even going to watch...

Ucchie on the other had has a smooth ass style, pumping or not...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Rad255 on April 13, 2010, 05:55:44 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.



Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?


Was it one of these?

http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=25982.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=25982.0)

http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=26045.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=26045.0)
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Ultraman Zoffy on April 13, 2010, 05:57:09 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?

TJ, even if they do, what's this prove? I love pumping. As so does Bobby. It was 4 to 1. Uchie did his regular minute and a half of turbine pegwheelies with a reverse pedal time machine and a spastic rope-a-ronie crammed in the middle. Trevor brought variety. Front wheel and back wheel. Pro-level tricks and a cross-footed grip ride. It was 4 to 1, not 3 to 2. That would have been harder to explain if myself or Bobby voted for Uchie I believe.

No sarcasm... this is really the insight I think most of us were seeking (and probably a few of us, at least myself, suspected).
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SIN on April 13, 2010, 05:58:09 AM
sorry but im going to have to say the x footed bar ride is more like a circus stunt, no i cant do it but im sure half the pro's could if they wanted to...

 all im trying to say is ucchies combos seem to look more complex than just jumping up and doing a bar ride, yeah its was x footed but like i said, half the pro's could do that if they were not working on complex combos

Ucchie, Ucchie, Ucchie!!!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Rad255 on April 13, 2010, 06:00:45 AM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?

TJ, even if they do, what's this prove? I love pumping. As so does Bobby. It was 4 to 1. Uchie did his regular minute and a half of turbine pegwheelies with a reverse pedal time machine and a spastic rope-a-ronie crammed in the middle. Trevor brought variety. Front wheel and back wheel. Pro-level tricks and a cross-footed grip ride. It was 4 to 1, not 3 to 2. That would have been harder to explain if myself or Bobby voted for Uchie I believe.

I think all it just really proves that you can't have a guy that clearly doesn't like a flatland "technique" that is virtually used by almost every modern competitive rider be a judge at a modern flatland contest.

edit: More than dislike, he pretty much has a grudge against riders that pump.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: villetgk on April 13, 2010, 06:36:04 AM
NO!

I have known Scott for 20+ years and this is the point you are missing.....His rant was for the way that riders pump their single tricks over and over and over again , in that exact same position to just set it down and be done, and not make the attempt to either turbine or switch to a different position on the bike.....when you pump a trick over and over again with out any effort to make the next step to better your riding and progression. This type of riding is way worse than a  *saftey* way of getting through a link.    I am pretty confident in saying that Scott and I are on the same page on matter, just as a few other riders that I have the great opportunity to call close friends.   


I don't see any harm in saying "pumping a trick -that same trick- to just casually ride out after 5 circles is b.s. riding in my book."


I also don't understand how in the world everyone gets amped on a contest, then turns around and complains.  Its a dam contest! From day 1 this has happened , and for future events it probably still will keep happening. 



I think what is truly happening here now, is a lot of you are making assumptions on what you not only assumed months ago on a few posts , and are using those past assumptions to point the finger at 1 judge.   


It's threads like this that is now making me re-think about going to Dayton ,(and it sucks-because I always tell Pat how stoked I am about it!!!) This same sh*t will happen ALL OVER AGAIN.   




Tim
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: AbraxasAnnihilation on April 13, 2010, 06:45:03 AM
I saw both of the videos and I believe that Ucchie won that battle. although I am kind of new to flatland...and Im not sure exactly how the judging. that being said I believe alot of the emphasis should be on how the actual event was run, the judging should be secondary unless the judging is consistently a problem, which like I said Im still new and dont really know if it is a consistent problem or not.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: franciscofromperu on April 13, 2010, 07:17:19 AM
I saw the videos too like every single rider in this forum and in this topic, but c'mon guys, is clearly uchie won the battle, is not only if you made front and rear tricks in a contest, somebody can tell me how is justin won three times the bmx masters?? or martti the x games three times too?? no one of these riders are a front and rear riders in all the contests, but they won, and now some people told about the combination of tricks of trevor, I didn't know what happened with these guys, but is clearly too than the tricks of trevor are out of date, the new wave of contest riders maybe repeat some tricks in the same combo, but is the way of you can connect everything in your combo that is make difficult to do.
Here nobody are going to apologize with uchie about the bad judgement aginst his effort, his good links, his good rutines in the battle, but everybody, and I'm not talking about me, know what uchie does and he is the champion for us.
He start to does the non scuff back wheel combos, he is one of the best back wheel flatland riders I ever seen, like nathan and chiquet.
Congrats to uchie for a clean rutine and this spastic rope a roni.
UCHIE ROCKS!!!!

francisco
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 08:21:26 AM

I also don't understand how in the world everyone gets amped on a contest, then turns around and complains.  Its a dam contest! From day 1 this has happened , and for future events it probably still will keep happening. 





No. This was a 10k pro purse event. Those do not happen all that often. Judging has to be on point for events like these and it wasn't here on a number of calls. If Uuchie would have gone to the finals, or Dane would have moved on, then the contest would have turned out differently, and someone else might have walked away with the money instead of Matthias. Especially when the difference between 1st and everything else is a couple grand.

You cannot downplay this as a few sour grapes. This is serious. This is money earned, not given. If people are going to play favorites, or downplay someones riding in order to hype someone else up, then the integrity of the contest falls into jeopardy, and along with the money that is handed out at the end of the day.

People say "oh it's just how contests work". This doesn't happen all that often. When there are tough calls, it's often just a few here and there that disagree or the devil is in the details. This wasn't the case this time. Higher standards should be held at every event we have since we have so few, so that these problems do not happen again.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: villetgk on April 13, 2010, 08:44:56 AM
First off- I didn't know the purse prize was 10K.  That's just amazing!!! And YES! There have been far and few events with that high amount of payout. 



TJ, so instead of beating around the bush , and watching everyone point fingers that "this is wrong, that is wrong, this person didn't do this right, or this person isn't up to a high standard to fill this position"


Please , I am giving you the open opportunity to point the finger,and say it like it is-bluntly, like you usually do.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 12:08:30 PM
NO!

I have known Scott for 20+ years and this is the point you are missing.....His rant was for the way that riders pump their single tricks over and over and over again , in that exact same position to just set it down and be done, and not make the attempt to either turbine or switch to a different position on the bike.....when you pump a trick over and over again with out any effort to make the next step to better your riding and progression. This type of riding is way worse than a  *saftey* way of getting through a link.    I am pretty confident in saying that Scott and I are on the same page on matter, just as a few other riders that I have the great opportunity to call close friends.   


I don't see any harm in saying "pumping a trick -that same trick- to just casually ride out after 5 circles is b.s. riding in my book."


I also don't understand how in the world everyone gets amped on a contest, then turns around and complains.  Its a dam contest! From day 1 this has happened , and for future events it probably still will keep happening. 



I think what is truly happening here now, is a lot of you are making assumptions on what you not only assumed months ago on a few posts , and are using those past assumptions to point the finger at 1 judge.   


It's threads like this that is now making me re-think about going to Dayton ,(and it sucks-because I always tell Pat how stoked I am about it!!!) This same sh*t will happen ALL OVER AGAIN.   




Tim
I have to actually agree with tim on this point ,SOME people use it as filler,I don't knock it when used to gain speed ,but to pump 25 circles for nothing isn't impressive. I just think Momentum is way more controlled looking. Noone on here will make me believe that Scott has a "grudge" that's just retarded.  Ya'll will screw this up for next year and then bitch about it then too. it's over Huck posted and that's it. I'm sure this is some elaborate ploy to Troll Scott into an arguement...............can I get an Amen?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: katobmx on April 13, 2010, 01:41:45 PM
I like how theres people that don't like pumping or scuffing. How the hell are you supposed to move your bike then hahaha  ^_^. tards
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: bhuffman on April 13, 2010, 04:29:52 PM
Hello everyone! First, I wanted to thank Pat/Katie for all of his hard work on putting this contest on! I want to thank the sponsors and everyone who helped with the contest. From Dan and Paul and all the volunteers to all the riders who entered or came out to watch. Thanks to everyone involved, I tried to personally thank as many people as possible. I had a great time as usual.

Judging was difficult and I tried to make the best decisions possible.

Everyone views things differently and sees things differently. That’s why we have 5 judges. I respect everyone who was judging and their opinions/decisions! Everyone did a great job. All I can do it explain a little about how I saw things and my opinion. I’ll try to keep it short because that drive home was brutal and I’m tired and at work.

When looking at a rider I tend to look at the things everyone probably looks at : difficulty, consistency, originality, variety and somewhat at overall impression. Depending on the class I am judging and how the runs go I tend to weigh more on one category heavier or the other. For example on what I just stated, I look for originality more in a pro rider than say an expert rider.

So in the Uchie/Trevor battle…

Both had I believe no touch runs so all things are pretty equal there.
Uchie has some original pivots/switches that are “his” – the multiple turbined backyard variation, the opposite spinning pedal time machine, etc. I felt that the only original trick Trevor brought to the table was the cross footed grip ride (which was great). I felt Uchie had him here on this category.
Trevor clearly had variety over Uchie so Trevor gets this category.
With overall impression I felt Uchie had more combinations/switches. A slight edge to Uchie here.
I also felt Uchie had more difficult links, with the switches and pivots combined with the actual number of pivots and switches within the combination of tricks he was doing. If you take all the links and compare together.

I know I am simplifying it a bit without getting into a discussion about exactly both riders did – I feel as a pro level rider that difficulty and originality weigh a little more than variety (although important). And again since neither touched that was not a factor. So I felt Uchie performed better. Just my opinion and how I saw the runs.

Both riders rode awesome!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 04:30:37 PM
I have to actually agree with tim on this point ,SOME people use it as filler,I don't knock it when used to gain speed ,but to pump 25 circles for nothing isn't impressive. I just think Momentum is way more controlled looking. Noone on here will make me believe that Scott has a "grudge" that's just retarded.  Ya'll will screw this up for next year and then bitch about it then too. it's over Huck posted and that's it. I'm sure this is some elaborate ploy to Troll Scott into an arguement...............can I get an Amen?

This isn't about pumping. This is about the two worst calls in judging I, and others, have ever seen. This is about people who were not qualified to judge, judging.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: franciscofromperu on April 13, 2010, 04:59:10 PM
Hello everyone! First, I wanted to thank Pat/Katie for all of his hard work on putting this contest on! I want to thank the sponsors and everyone who helped with the contest. From Dan and Paul and all the volunteers to all the riders who entered or came out to watch. Thanks to everyone involved, I tried to personally thank as many people as possible. I had a great time as usual.

Judging was difficult and I tried to make the best decisions possible.

Everyone views things differently and sees things differently. That’s why we have 5 judges. I respect everyone who was judging and their opinions/decisions! Everyone did a great job. All I can do it explain a little about how I saw things and my opinion. I’ll try to keep it short because that drive home was brutal and I’m tired and at work.

When looking at a rider I tend to look at the things everyone probably looks at : difficulty, consistency, originality, variety and somewhat at overall impression. Depending on the class I am judging and how the runs go I tend to weigh more on one category heavier or the other. For example on what I just stated, I look for originality more in a pro rider than say an expert rider.

So in the Uchie/Trevor battle…

Both had I believe no touch runs so all things are pretty equal there.
Uchie has some original pivots/switches that are “his” – the multiple turbined backyard variation, the opposite spinning pedal time machine, etc. I felt that the only original trick Trevor brought to the table was the cross footed grip ride (which was great). I felt Uchie had him here on this category.
Trevor clearly had variety over Uchie so Trevor gets this category.
With overall impression I felt Uchie had more combinations/switches. A slight edge to Uchie here.
I also felt Uchie had more difficult links, with the switches and pivots combined with the actual number of pivots and switches within the combination of tricks he was doing. If you take all the links and compare together.

I know I am simplifying it a bit without getting into a discussion about exactly both riders did – I feel as a pro level rider that difficulty and originality weigh a little more than variety (although important). And again since neither touched that was not a factor. So I felt Uchie performed better. Just my opinion and how I saw the runs.

Both riders rode awesome!

I agree with you bryan about the judging criteria, but part of the judging system is not innovation?? and if you talk about variety of tricks, what happened if a rider shows a combination like hang five to steam roller to karl kruiser to hitch hicker to stem roller to hal packer to crack packer to steam roller to hang five?? this is more difficult than the uchie combinations?? I don't think so, and more difficult than the trevor rutine, right, this is more difficult than that he done.
So, in my opinion, innovation, difficulty, consistency, fluidity and interaction with the public uchie wins, we need to remember we don't have the same public like park, dirt or vert riders, we need to create an interaction riders - public for have more audiance in more contests.
With this criteria Uchie took the battle.
Trevor for me is one of the best flatland riders in history, but he doesn't show this to us, he only rode like a novice rider against the tricks he filmed this and the past year.
So why the judges get him the battle?? this is unfair for everybody , cause think in the impact of these in every competitors of the lower categories, if these happens in a pro level contest, what more could happened??
If my style is only the front wheel and I do a lot of links but I still in the steam roller before and after this unique tricks and links I'm not a rival for a rider who rides in both tires but doing simple tricks with very simple links?? If he does a half flash to lardyard to backward time machine to dumptruck this is better than my steam roller 360 barflip to crackpacker??
please pro riders pronounce your opinion with this situation, and explain us a little bit more of the discusion in the topic.

thanks
Francisco
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Gensanity on April 13, 2010, 05:05:53 PM
hey jim, congrats on 1st.

that is really cool.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jazzman on April 13, 2010, 05:11:58 PM
congrats to bryan for the win as well!   :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: radoaos on April 13, 2010, 05:56:48 PM
I made a comment earlier about how things like this would always happen because the sport had no definitive point system, thus a clear winner can't be determined.  After thinking for a while, I realize that this kind of crap happens even in games where there are points and times.

Think about basketball if someone gets fouled at the last second.  A soccer game where a team wins on a PK.  It seems that almost any sport can have a "subjective" call that can change the dynamics of the competition.

The pros know this.  Uchie, Trevor, Matthias, Matt, Terry, and everyone else.  They know that there is a risk in competition that you are subjected to the views of others.  I watched the battles, but I wasn't there.  It was really close either way.  I mean, a no touch run by two pros?!?  This has to be a judges nightmare.  Maybe Trevor got the edge because he is American, or maybe because he did tricks on both wheels.  Maybe there was no bias at all, and the judges just thought he had a better all around run.  It doesn't matter.  What matters is that in the end, it came down to a subjective call, and not everybody will agree.

I guess message boards wouldn't be much fun if nobody argued...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 05:59:33 PM
It was really close either way.  I mean, a no touch run by two pros?!?  This has to be a judges nightmare. 

No, it really wasn't if you have any conceivable idea of what's difficult and original.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 13, 2010, 07:00:31 PM
Something tells me this could end up with both Uchie AND Trevor probably not coming out for another North American comp anytime soon. I really feel bad for both guys...

Sad but prob true :(
Especially if they read all this crying about who got robbed and such. we got a 15 year old and Mrs +1 talking like seasoned Pros.....you 2 kill me! did you 2 go? if so did you compete or just hang? I was slammed for not even taking a bike to FWF so who else didn't compete that is voicing "an opinon"? C'mon boys ,pony up.

I actually conversed with the people I'm talking about as opposed to sneaking pictures ya bitch.
Did you compete? and BTW you do know you're name........... ^_^   I think you mean't SNITCH as in reference to you crying to Karl  ^_^

Accusations about you not riding or not riding came out way after your creapy ass sh*t did with your TJ cam.


I think it's quite fine to critique the judgeing, the organizers and even the riders at any point of the game. Its healthy to critique. Its looking in the mirror and noticing nose hairs or acne. Just remember your going to be chilling with them next round. I think if the format was just toss the flag up post run...then there realy isnt much thought into it and its flawed. I personally think it works out better whn you have one guy keep track of one category. Other wise its simply the Gong Show. You cant think about how original a link was while watching for dabs or full foot touches. I think judgings easy as Tj pointed out IF you have a categorized system.

To not critique would be us saying we have the perfect system. Which is never going to happen.

I have trouble seeing how the vote went 3-1 or 4-1 whatever it was. I know one person voted for Uchie. Realy? Its ok to question but why is everyone going straight to vitriol? I understand why Juggs is ...he has Od'ed or over compensated on testosterone.  :wub:

But i mean I do get his original point before he said it five times in the same thread. We should be happier about this contest happening than than angry about the fall out. I mean if it didnt happen we'd be all talking about our drab home sessions and dealing with our daily crap.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 13, 2010, 08:32:51 PM
Judging sports like those are all about "playing favorites"  The judges that we have at a given contest are trusted to give there informed opinion about who did what and then place them accordingly.  Maybe one judge wanted to see more variety and that influenced their decision.  Maybe one likes to see more speed and flow.  Another might want to see consistency, and another might value attempting the hardest tricks. Every contest seems to have different ways to judge and every judge injects a ton of bias into their markings.  One time I saw Paul Osicka want to downgrade people's riding for doing older tricks, even done perfectly, compared with a new trick that wasn't pulled!   

These days I'm just happy if someone judges someone on what they did IN THEIR RUN, not bump people up because they were in Diversion 27 or did something crazy in practice the night before - I've seen that happen a LOT over the years.     

This subject has been debated to death before a lot of you were even born.  DMC beat RL Osborn in a one minute run off in 1986 for the AFA Master's Championship.  The entire year came down to 1 one minute run.  Some people liked to see DMC's super fast style, other's liked RLs more slow and controlled stuff.  Who is right?  It's debatable who was better, but DMC got first that day.   

As spectators we can have our own opinions about it all we want but the fact is that is the kind sport we are in.  If someone doesn't like it, they can either not enter contests and become one of those riders who talks too much about how no one understands their "art" while living at their parent's house, or take up a less subjective sport.

Our little sport here has occasionally tried but mostly totally failed to produce judging criteria that eliminates debates like these.
An overly complicated judging format that takes into account and measures numerically EVERY part of a rider's style would in all probability be monstrously complex and hard for judges to use - it would just mean that it would be harder for contest organizers to find VOLUNTEERS to judge contests - already it's a thankless job that only results in people being upset with you. 

Maybe Ucchie got ripped off.  Maybe he didn't.  If he did and he's as good as people say he is, then I'm sure he'll have another chance to make it up. The ironic thing is that I'm sure by then plenty OTHER people will be saying the exact same things about some other rider who they think should've beaten him.

Funny thing about flatland is that sometimes you place higher than you should've, other times you might place lower, but over time things tend to even out.   

Needless to say, I think endlessly berating the judges and the organizers about something that's already happened is pretty immature and only makes flatland look even more unprofessional than it already is.  It's things like this that eventually got us kicked out of the X-Games......
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jm on April 13, 2010, 08:53:23 PM
But i mean I do get his original point before he said it five times in the same thread. We should be happier about this contest happening than than angry about the fall out. I mean if it didnt happen we'd be all talking about our drab home sessions and dealing with our daily crap.

you hit the nail on the head man. this was an unbelievably fun event, and it's sad that the one moment of discord has put a dark (internet) cloud over the whole thing. can we please talk about the positive now?!  

 in my own case, i voiced my opinions to the judges immediately after it happened, so that we could move on and focus on the positive, especially online where those that could not attend would be able to enjoy the media and feel a part of this great event.

all this bickering, while valid, will not change what happened, nor will it promote the sport. If we love flatland, let's act like it; not to ignore the conflicts, but to rise above and continue to progress.

I hope some of you who did not attend are able to draw inspiration in your own riding from the videos showcasing some of the greatest riders in the world. peace.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ollie on April 13, 2010, 08:59:07 PM
The judges are legends, I am confused :huh:
Anyway, I think Trevor is a cool guy and as a pro he knows that he shouldn't win this run and he is not touchy about this. I hope the same by Ucchie!

And if the judges were cool too, they would admit that they messed up, not a big deal, and everybody would forgot and stop arguing about that and love them to death...


Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 09:09:39 PM

Maybe Ucchie got ripped off.  Maybe he didn't.  If he did and he's as good as people say he is, then I'm sure he'll have another chance to make it up. The ironic thing is that I'm sure by then plenty OTHER people will be saying the exact same things about some other rider who they think should've beaten him.



Yeah he can just pay another couple thousand bucks to fly into the US after getting slapped in the face on the worst judging call over the last decade. I don't think I'd go back to that event again if I were him.

You appear to have no concept of the ramifications of this decision it seems, and that kind of bothers me. We can go on and on about brotherly love and good times had for all until we are blue in the face, but when it comes to events like this, it is about business and work for many of those involved.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 13, 2010, 09:56:27 PM

Scott Powell-Veteran of the sport, has judged for many years. Also, very un-biased.


Can someone please find the rant that Scott went on about how insanely sh*tty pumping was a few months back?
Ok, I was wrong, it isn't about pumping............. You mean't something else?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: joey_K on April 13, 2010, 09:57:33 PM
Needless to say, I think endlessly berating the judges and the organizers about something that's already happened is pretty immature and only makes flatland look even more unprofessional than it already is.  It's things like this that eventually got us kicked out of the X-Games......

Umm no, flatland was kicked out of the X-games because it was not marketable. Also there seems to be nothing but praise for the organizers.
There is nothing immature or unprofessional about critiquing a bad judging decision. What IS immature and unprofessional is having a bias to one rider/style of riding and basing your judging decision on this bias. This is what everyone thinks happened, HUCK does nothing to deny this and no one else has come up with an explanation that makes any sense.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 13, 2010, 10:31:11 PM
Needless to say, I think endlessly berating the judges and the organizers about something that's already happened is pretty immature and only makes flatland look even more unprofessional than it already is.  It's things like this that eventually got us kicked out of the X-Games......

Umm no, flatland was kicked out of the X-games because it was not marketable. Also there seems to be nothing but praise for the organizers.
There is nothing immature or unprofessional about critiquing a bad judging decision. What IS immature and unprofessional is having a bias to one rider/style of riding and basing your judging decision on this bias. This is what everyone thinks happened, HUCK does nothing to deny this and no one else has come up with an explanation that makes any sense.

That was the main part of it, but a BIG part of it was that we did nothing but complain to Mat, Steve Swope, and everyone else involved every time they put on a contest.  When they were basically doing flatland a favor by including it.  At 4 to 12 or so contests a year.  For 11 years!  They were trying as hard as they could and got nothing but criticism for doing so.  I think in the end they decided that we were more trouble than we were worth.  

At the 1999 X-Games, Martti and a couple of other guys basically complained their way into the finals when they didn't like the judging system that we'd been using all year because they had been cut.  It was incredibly embarrassing and awkward to Hoffman and company to have to change the rules in the middle of the contest, and it made our sport look incredibly unprofessional.   That was the beginning of the end for us on TV and a huge black eye for the sport.      
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Havokflat on April 13, 2010, 10:34:19 PM
hey jim, congrats on 1st.

that is really cool.
+1  :beer:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 13, 2010, 10:39:17 PM

Maybe Ucchie got ripped off.  Maybe he didn't.  If he did and he's as good as people say he is, then I'm sure he'll have another chance to make it up. The ironic thing is that I'm sure by then plenty OTHER people will be saying the exact same things about some other rider who they think should've beaten him.



Yeah he can just pay another couple thousand bucks to fly into the US after getting slapped in the face on the worst judging call over the last decade. I don't think I'd go back to that event again if I were him.

You appear to have no concept of the ramifications of this decision it seems, and that kind of bothers me. We can go on and on about brotherly love and good times had for all until we are blue in the face, but when it comes to events like this, it is about business and work for many of those involved.

TJ, it's not like we're talking about the Olympics here.  It was a close judging call between two guys who didn't even get first place.  Anyone trying to make a living off of flatland is just going to end up frustrated anyway, it's virtually impossible and has been for more than 20 years now.  
You can be pissed if you want to but the fact is that until we have some universal judging criteria it comes down to a totally subjective decision.  Suggest new judging standards if you don't like it.  
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: joey_K on April 13, 2010, 10:43:41 PM
So do you just expect no one to say anything then? Just zip their lips and be happy there was a contest even if there was questionable judging decisions being made. The mistakes made at this event wont be corrected if this is the case. I remember last year a huge stink came up after the FU5 contest. This year the contest was run a million times better because of it.
I think the point has been made that the event was awesome, well organized and everyone had a great time. No one is knocking the event, just questioning the judges, which brings me back to the points I made before...

Also, if Uchie won that battle, he would have been battling matthias for first and not been eliminated. If you think that was a close judging call... i donno
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 13, 2010, 10:46:31 PM
Maybe you guys are starting to see one of the problems with a battle format.....
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 10:54:20 PM


TJ, it's not like we're talking about the Olympics here.  It was a close judging call between two guys who didn't even get first place.  Anyone trying to make a living off of flatland is just going to end up frustrated anyway, it's virtually impossible and has been for more than 20 years now.  
You can be pissed if you want to but the fact is that until we have some universal judging criteria it comes down to a totally subjective decision.  Suggest new judging standards if you don't like it.  


A close call? Are you kidding me? It wasn't close at all! As for suggesting judging standards, I have, many times!

It's not impossible to make a living off of flatland. Terry and Matt are doing quite well for themselves all things considered because flatland has grown in the eyes of sponsors. Their main income isn't contests, it's shows. However, if guys are getting flat out robbed of deserved placing, then I don't really see why they should bother competing if they can do shows instead?

Don't bring up an X games from over 10 years ago. The discussion is about the Trevor vs Ucchie battle in 2010 at Jomopro.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 10:55:04 PM
Maybe you guys are starting to see one of the problems with a battle format.....

Wow yet you aren't seeing the problem with a bunch of archaic judges with no concept of difficulty or originality or am I missing something?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 13, 2010, 11:04:31 PM
D, I don’t think its a problem with the riding format. I think its a judging format issue however. I think its an issue if they simply throw up flags at the end. D the battle format can be very entertaining which the X Games were drab in comparison to i believe, seeing both in action. I do concede it raises speedy judging issues however. How do you stiffle your personal prejudices if your not doing ANY math? I mean we've seen loaded global warming data from very scientific intelligent minds because they get their sollution's ahead of the formulating.

I believe you still have to have judging by categories. One person concentrating on one aspect of the riding. If Scott has issue with pumping maybe he should get placed into a category that wouldn’t prejudice him. Which one I don’t really know. Give him a clicker counter like baseball umps use and he can watch people make touches. i dont know what else you could possibly do. I mean if you openly discuss how much you hate pumping how can you open mindedly judge difficulty or style or originality or variety? Are you going to say scuffed stubbleducks are the same difficulty as no scuff stubbles? Or arent more original? Or arent straying from the normal scuffed versions from years ago? Makes little to no sense. I will say that some of Shintaros older scuffy type stuff along with Ciarnan Perry’s is more difficult and original than some of the pumping stuff however. It also looks cooler than some of it. But how do you judge that if your not taking into consideration about five different aspect of riding?

What format was it here? I haven’t really gotten an answer yet. Did the judging take into consideration different categories with scoring...or did it happen spur of the moment "who ya thunk won"

And if it did were each judges tallying each and every category themselves?


I mean if it’s like that you mine as well just put a decibel reader on the floor and see who gets the highest reaction. Its not very scientific. The tallying doesn’t have to take an hour either. I mean if you just have one score as one judge it should'nt take even thirty seconds to add up.

Im kind of on both sides of this issue. I as many I believe love how entertaining the battle format is compared to one guy riding around filling up time. I also however think a judging format needs to be quick and precise to make this happen.

If someone was the least experienced of the panel they should be watching for touches perhaps.


I don’t think anyone should be judging difficulty, variety, style or anything if they've totally discarded a technique.

Other than purely waiting for people to touch.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 11:18:31 PM
I don't understand why we are still talking about format here? We used pretty much the same format for Voodoo, and there were no qualms with that. We judged using the same criteria at the last Jomopro and I don't think a single complaint was lodged.

This isn't about format, this is about the judges themselves.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 13, 2010, 11:24:04 PM
I was talking JUDGING format because as far as I know up till now...no one said what exact format was used, and a judging issue has nothign to do with riding format.


I'm on your side TJ lax out mang.


i aslo think were a little too pissed over it in agreeance with Darren.

I actualy still dont know..I didnt see the judging format form the first one. Just do tell me it was more complex than "this guy this guy?".




Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 11:29:24 PM
The format that was used is what is ALWAYS used. You judge based on difficulty, originality, variety, and consistency. You take those four things into account when making your decision. If it's a battle between two guys, all you need is an up or down vote based on who won and who didn't. That's what happened in the finals. In the prelims it was a 0-100 scoring system as far as I know again using those four scores.

The battle format is fine. It works. However it doesn't work when you have people that are incredibly biased towards one style of riding, or who do not comprehend what is being done on the floor.

I wasn't talking to you in regards to the format specifically, it was just in general. The format isn't the problem, it's the judging/judges.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 13, 2010, 11:35:17 PM
its not always used. I'm asking if each judge had their own category in the quali's? Or did each judge individually score all and each categories?


I do know it shouldnt be quesitoned in comparing Uchie with Trev....shouldnt even be a question.  Any judging format shodlve produced a different result.

Closer battles are an issue though in my opinion with a simple flag raise.

I mean the "flag raise" allowed anyone of these "seasoned" judges to make any prejudice point they wanted to.

The battle format is the only thing working FOR flatland right now. Its selling flat more than sleepy timed runs.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 11:36:24 PM
its not always used. I'm asking if each judge had their own category in the quali's? Or did each judge individually score all and each categories?




Each judge has those categories to go on, and they raise their flag on who did better overall taking each into consideration.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 13, 2010, 11:38:28 PM
I don't have  problem with battle format either, it's just that with that setup, where only one person can advance, you might run into things like this.

I agree with Jeff, it's impossible to be totally impartial with judging when there's no math.  

TJ, you keep talking about people having no concept of difficulty or originality. What about the other things that riders are judged on?  Where should those things fall on the scale of importance in judging?  

Again, if we had a universal judging criteria a lot of these issues would have a lot less debate around them.  

 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 13, 2010, 11:47:10 PM
TJ, you keep talking about people having no concept of difficulty or originality. What about the other things that riders are judged on?  Where should those things fall on the scale of importance in judging?  
 

They should be of equal importance. However, that being said, if the difficulty of what one person does completely overshadows the simplicity of the other, and the other wins on the technicality of "oh he has more variety" then it takes someone with common sense to determine the outcome. If you have good judges that aren't biased against certain styles of riding, or guys who actually know what they are doing up at the judges table, this doesn't really happen.

This was an open and shut decision. If I was up there judging there would be no question of who won that battle. Trevor hardly even did links. For the most part he just did single tricks. Most of his tricks were master level, not pro. Nothing in his run was extraordinarily difficult. I dare anyone to go through that battle trick by trick and explain to me what Trevor did that was so much better than Uuchie. Uuchie had some of the most difficult links and tricks of the entire contest, and he was penalized heavily because he rode rear wheel only. Hell, that link that ended with the backwards switch handed time machine on the pedal was one of the craziest tricks I've ever seen. I'm sorry, but that is a monumentally stupid call that screams bias every step of the way. We're arguing semantics over some big picture discussion over the merits of reforming our entire outlook on judging, when the problem here is really clear as day; most of the judges were incompetent and should not have been judging.

So we can keep up this debate and be distracted by the issues arising because of the battle format, which works pretty much all the time with little to no complaints, or we can actually address the issues that lead to the problems in the first place; BAD JUDGING.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: katobmx on April 14, 2010, 12:01:15 AM



Uuchie had some of the most difficult links and tricks of the entire contest, and he was penalized heavily because he rode rear wheel only. Hell, that link that ended with the backwards switch handed time machine on the pedal was one of the craziest tricks I've ever seen

In practice I saw im get out of that trick into a manual. His tricks really did rival Matthias'. I can't wait to see them compete in the same comp. again
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pralex on April 14, 2010, 12:12:28 AM



Uuchie had some of the most difficult links and tricks of the entire contest, and he was penalized heavily because he rode rear wheel only. Hell, that link that ended with the backwards switch handed time machine on the pedal was one of the craziest tricks I've ever seen

In practice I saw im get out of that trick into a manual. His tricks really did rival Matthias'. I can't wait to see them compete in the same comp. again

In which he proceeds to whopper out of the manual.  f*cking insane.

The contest was awesome, notice how this is the only complaint anyone has?  If you were there, you'd notice that lots of guys thanked the organizers in person, so don't think I just came on here and started bitching.  Go read Matthias' blog, he rants about how it was one of the best contests ever, which it was in my opinion.

It's also important for us to hold judges accountable for the decisions they make, after they voted for Trevor instead of Ucchie, almost everyone was standing up saying "what the f*ck just happened".  I'm not going to name names, but many pros were NOT HAPPY about this, not just the A Bad Thing guys.  There are also pros who do not go to contests in certain countries because they feel that the judging is bias.  It's a real shame that it would come to that.  You know why I've never offered to judge?  Because I don't think I can pull myself away from the fact that I'm more so friends with Dub, then Viki.  I would've voted for Dub in that battle because I think it was close, but I would've rathered seen Dub win. 

This is my last post on this matter.

Post script; anyone have any idea how much it'd cost to ship a sword to Japan for Shintaro?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 14, 2010, 12:19:47 AM
If there were a paper trail behind the logic of the decisions made in the semis then we'd KNOW what went wrong.

That’s what Im trying to get across I suppose along with you cant be subjective left alone with the flag with five seconds after their run. I look at that battle and cant really figure out how they made their decision.

I don’t think you can even judge them equally from category to category.

I mean how ever you divvy it up....execution and difficulty to me should be first. Then after you see people doing equally difficult...break it down from that point. If they are both doing ridiculous bomb tricks and pulling them your going need to decide who had more variety and who had more originality...and i say at that point originality comes in.

Anyone can come up with an original easy trick..so obviously its an emphasis on difficulty and execution slightly...but not all. I mean if someone does a bar spin can can vander roll...kind of original but that shouldn’t trump pedaling time machines any day.

I even go as far to believe if contests are promotional that style should count for something.

Which IMHO variety nor originality fully or even addresses.

I mean Dane has style for days. Same with Uchie. Same with Shintaro. Such control.

 But no existing used format ever forces any consideration for being smooth or stylish.



I judged a contest X last year.. each judge judged each category. They were all of equal value. So it ended up people not even pulling tricks were scoring higher based on how difficult the tricks were they were trying but not pulling off. It was straight up 20, 20 ,20 ,20 with an overall 20 I believe.

This  put riders not even pulling tricks ahead with bomb tricks over riders pulling slightly less difficult tricks. I followed the judging format while others didn’t and arbitrarily decided and just blotted down the overall score.

I mean its execution of difficult tricks…then who is doing the more original and various from that point.

Obviously if a judge isn’t qualified or is prejudice…none of this will mean anything. But at least you can tell what went wrong post fact. If someone’s scoring Uchie lower on difficulty theyre out their damn head. We could know what happened between Uchie and Trev if we saw a piece of paper. Then at least we would know “wow this guys really not open minded" or doesn’t know sh*t and inexperienced. But again one judge per one category makes it simpler. The difficult battles to judge should have been Matthias and Uchie. No body probably would be left trying to figure that out had they both not pulled their tricks.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 12:21:02 AM
If things in this thread will keep going like they have until now this will get no where except to turning at some point into mindless flaming fights.

The only productive way of looking at things if you divide it to parts rather than just throwing sentences like f*ck this f*ck that and talking about everything all together and at the same time.

with that being said, I think most of the people here will agree that the battle format has been better competition wise and for public entertainment.

Saying that the judging was wrong, the format was wrong and the riders not putting out 100% was wrong will get you no where except digging a big hole and getting more people mad.

In my opinion judging should never be biased in the point of "i hate pumping/scuffing", everything should be brought down to specific details of each rider.
Because one can pump cause he likes to and thinks it adds to the flow and another one can pump just because other wise he will fall, generalizing such unique sport into categories can sometimes flip the outcomes(like it happened here).

Also, I think some of the categories shouldn't have equal value. Say some one does hard tricks on one wheel rather than the other one does both wheels so you would say he has more variety but the difficulty should be more dominant in this case.


In the end no matter what happens every contest a lot of people put their hearts into setting things up and working around the clock, and i'm sure none of those people would like their hard work turn out to negative feedback because of bad incidents during the event..

edit: JFos posted a big part of what i said already so...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 12:23:28 AM
If things in this thread will keep going like they have until now this will get no where except to turning at some point into mindless flaming fights.


The only person that should be allowed to judge is Bryan in my opinion. If the result of this discussion is that the other guys are discredited and are not allowed to judge anymore, then that's fine by me.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 14, 2010, 12:26:39 AM
how long was that single battle?

sounds like that was the only bad few moments of a long long long event.



i wanna hear about the party....

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 12:28:33 AM
If things in this thread will keep going like they have until now this will get no where except to turning at some point into mindless flaming fights.


The only person that should be allowed to judge is Bryan in my opinion. If the result of this discussion is that the other guys are discredited and are not allowed to judge anymore, then that's fine by me.
i think you made that point 4 pages ago, the fact that it always goes on because some one says something provocative and people start making it more and more personal it becomes pointless.

at least its always amusing when people saying that others act like 12 year olds when i'm very close to that age and i don't  hehe.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 14, 2010, 12:36:31 AM
Dave i do think the conversaton has progressed some however. I mean we are gettign more detailed. but the bottem line stil exist's. You cant allow people with prejudices to judge.

Its like holding a racially charged rape trial in Alabama 1953 tho.

How in flatland in this small town are you going to find non prejudice judging? lol

We need an anti-social pro hermit judge that hates everyone equally but has vast knowledge and is capable of speed math with quick flag hands. Is that Huffman?

He likes to party! I know he does.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 12:42:10 AM
ye there is a progress just usually it seems sparse among many other comments..

I suggest TJ should apply for judging, he can share his hatred equally.  -_-
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 12:43:39 AM
ye there is a progress just usually it seems sparse among many other comments..

I suggest TJ should apply for judging, he can share his hatred equally.  -_-

I've judged Voodoo, Fight with Flight, and Jomopro.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 14, 2010, 01:00:30 AM
how long was that single battle?

sounds like that was the only bad few moments of a long long long event.



i wanna hear about the party....


JFOS..All I will say is... FULL NUDE titty bar...Cheap drinks..And bibles. hahahaha

All things bullsh*t aside..CONTEST.. O THE f*ckING..YEAR! You really just have to expierience it..As laid back as it possibly could be, with everything from guitar hero to rock crawling for the kiddies. If you didnt make it out this year, start planning for next!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Jason Rideout on April 14, 2010, 02:21:25 AM
They need to add more criteria in to the judging format like , speed executed and flow and smoothness. Then the judging may be more equalized.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 02:24:45 AM
They need to add more criteria in to the judging format like , speed executed and flow and smoothness. Then the judging may be more equalized.

No. Because some riders have styles that just simply are not smooth and that's how it is. That should not be subject to the views of the judges.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: katobmx on April 14, 2010, 02:28:26 AM
There's nothing wrong with the judging format. I agreed with all of the placing's up until a certain point.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: HUCK on April 14, 2010, 02:29:41 AM
First off, I'd like to say I never asked to judge, I was asked to judge. I am completely thankful and honored that Pat and the rest of the judges felt I was qualified to judge. I always try to help and assist the sport I love so dearly in anyway I can. When I can. Secondly, I will re-iterate what I said earlier, it was 4 to 1. I have watched the video again and again and still feel I made the best decision. If anyone on here thinks judging is easy they are mistaken. Judging flatland has got to be the most subjective sport there is. Preference does weigh into decision unfortunately. Again, if it was 1 to 4, and I was the only one who voted for Trevor, then I would check my decision and make an apology to Uchie and the entire flatland community. It wasn't even 3 to 2 or 2 to 3. So with that being said, it's over and done. And TJ, please don't make this a personal attack against me. If you don't agree thats fine but don't go off the deep end and start belittling me. I won't turn the other cheek like I did in Indy next time. Remember TJ, I was the one who came to you and made things right between us. And so in closing, I questioned myself after last years Jomopro about whether I'd judge again because of this same crap. I'm left asking myself this same question this year. We'll see if I ever commit to judging again. Thanks to Pat, Katie, Paul, Jeremiah, and all the sponsors for a phenomenal event. Thanks, Huck 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Burd on April 14, 2010, 03:35:31 AM

Maybe Ucchie got ripped off.  Maybe he didn't.  If he did and he's as good as people say he is, then I'm sure he'll have another chance to make it up. The ironic thing is that I'm sure by then plenty OTHER people will be saying the exact same things about some other rider who they think should've beaten him.



Yeah he can just pay another couple thousand bucks to fly into the US after getting slapped in the face on the worst judging call over the last decade. I don't think I'd go back to that event again if I were him.

You appear to have no concept of the ramifications of this decision it seems, and that kind of bothers me. We can go on and on about brotherly love and good times had for all until we are blue in the face, but when it comes to events like this, it is about business and work for many of those involved.

On the contrary, if I'm one of Ucchie's sponsors, I'm over the moon about this incident.  Look at all the publicity and love he's getting and how much everyone is talking about him right now.  That's pure gold for a sponsor regardless of his final placing.  And if he comes back next year, the judges are likely to be a bit more biased *for* him because of this perceived slight.  If the organizers can find anyone who is actually willing to risk being a judge now that is...

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pat on April 14, 2010, 04:29:05 AM
naw man i dont think real flatlanders care what is said on this forum ;)
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 08:59:54 AM
First off, I'd like to say I never asked to judge, I was asked to judge. I am completely thankful and honored that Pat and the rest of the judges felt I was qualified to judge. I always try to help and assist the sport I love so dearly in anyway I can. When I can. Secondly, I will re-iterate what I said earlier, it was 4 to 1. I have watched the video again and again and still feel I made the best decision. If anyone on here thinks judging is easy they are mistaken. Judging flatland has got to be the most subjective sport there is. Preference does weigh into decision unfortunately. Again, if it was 1 to 4, and I was the only one who voted for Trevor, then I would check my decision and make an apology to Uchie and the entire flatland community. It wasn't even 3 to 2 or 2 to 3. So with that being said, it's over and done. And TJ, please don't make this a personal attack against me. If you don't agree thats fine but don't go off the deep end and start belittling me. I won't turn the other cheek like I did in Indy next time. Remember TJ, I was the one who came to you and made things right between us. And so in closing, I questioned myself after last years Jomopro about whether I'd judge again because of this same crap. I'm left asking myself this same question this year. We'll see if I ever commit to judging again. Thanks to Pat, Katie, Paul, Jeremiah, and all the sponsors for a phenomenal event. Thanks, Huck 

I think it was a terrible decision and you and the other judges should be held accountable for it. It's not a personal attack, it's a matter of whether or not you were qualified for the position of judge. If you can't do it then you can't do it, but the fact that the stars aligned and you were up there with others who also couldn't make the right call kind of freaks me out. I never singled you out in particular, I never repeatedly said "GOD THIS IS ALL LEE'S FAULT SCREW THAT DUDE" so relax.

Sorry you're taking this personally, but this wasn't some jam in the middle of nowhere. It was the largest pro purse that the sport has had in the last God knows how many years, and the integrity of the event (in my mind) was compromised by bad judging. The organizers might have thought it was an incredible event and for all intents and purposes it really was, but how do you convince the Japanese guys or European guys to come back knowing that the standard of judging could be what it was this time around next time? It's a big deal. A really big deal. And if you rewatched the battles and still feel like you made the right decision then I'm sorry but you should not be allowed to judge any other events because that battle was a clear shut out and your opinion is pretty clearly tainted by preconceived bias.

You're a good guy, but you don't know how to judge. The two are not related. Just because you suck at interpretive jazz dance doesn't mean you're a bad guy either, just that you are bad at interpretive jazz dance, plain and simple.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: nobleman on April 14, 2010, 09:35:44 AM
who was that guy talking in the back ground on the ustreem edit? he also touched on the trev an ochi battle , he was funny to listen to,
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 12:47:11 PM

On the contrary, if I'm one of Ucchie's sponsors, I'm over the moon about this incident.  Look at all the publicity and love he's getting and how much everyone is talking about him right now.  That's pure gold for a sponsor regardless of his final placing.  And if he comes back next year, the judges are likely to be a bit more biased *for* him because of this perceived slight.  If the organizers can find anyone who is actually willing to risk being a judge now that is...



Great. Ucchie could have gone on to battle Matthias, and he had a really good shot at beating him. Do you really think his sponsors are going to drop a couple thousand dollars off with Ucchie because he was tied up in a controversy? No. This is about one guy getting an unfair advantage and guaranteed a spot on the podium because a couple dudes at the judges table didn't know what they were doing. It's not that he could have won and didn't, it's that he was shut out from given the opportunity because of a sh*tty call, because again, the judges didn't know what they were doing.

This is about money, not honor or something else equally as nebulous and obscure.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SurfonFlatland on April 14, 2010, 03:09:24 PM
It's one thing for riders to disagree with the judging, but it's also another thing for most, if not the entire, crowd of people who know nothing about flatlandto disagree with the judges decision
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Burd on April 14, 2010, 03:33:10 PM

On the contrary, if I'm one of Ucchie's sponsors, I'm over the moon about this incident.  Look at all the publicity and love he's getting and how much everyone is talking about him right now.  That's pure gold for a sponsor regardless of his final placing.  And if he comes back next year, the judges are likely to be a bit more biased *for* him because of this perceived slight.  If the organizers can find anyone who is actually willing to risk being a judge now that is...



Great. Ucchie could have gone on to battle Matthias, and he had a really good shot at beating him. Do you really think his sponsors are going to drop a couple thousand dollars off with Ucchie because he was tied up in a controversy? No. This is about one guy getting an unfair advantage and guaranteed a spot on the podium because a couple dudes at the judges table didn't know what they were doing. It's not that he could have won and didn't, it's that he was shut out from given the opportunity because of a sh*tty call, because again, the judges didn't know what they were doing.

This is about money, not honor or something else equally as nebulous and obscure.

I 100% agree that it was a bad judging decision, but I'm also trying to look a bit on the bright side of things from Ucchie's perspective.  If he makes it to the finals and loses to Matthias, then no one is going to talk much about him.  He gets second place, no one really cares, big deal.

On the other hand, being obviously punked out of a spot in the finals after a brilliant run by legendary lightning rod Trevor Meyer who is returning to competition for the first time in 7 years has generated 10 pages of passionate conversation on the world's biggest flatland forum, it has led to his Vimeo video getting vastly more hits than it would have otherwise, and people are now saying that he's pretty much the best thing in BMX since the invention of the Potts Mod.  "Losing" to Trevor certainly wasn't good, but it wasn't necessarily all bad either.

BMX comps aren't really competitions, they're shows with some sort of corny scoring method thrown in.  Think about park competitions, like the Dew Tour for example.  If a rider comes out and has terrible overall runs and gets 10th place but throws down a triple backflip, I guarantee you it's that triple backflip that is going to get shown in all of the replays/promos, and it will be that triple backflip that goes viral on the internet.  No one will really give a sh*t that the guy got 10th place, especially not his sponsors.

Somehow I doubt Ucchie is really that worked up about this.  He strikes me as the sort who goes to comps to bust out and have fun rather than getting all Ryan Sheckler about winning and losing...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 03:44:19 PM
I don't think judges should be necessarily picked by statements like "oh he rides for 30 years lets get him", because there seems to be a lot of biased opinions about pumping/scuffing etc.

It wouldn't be fair if a rider likes to pump tricks it would work against him, same for scuffing, its less popular today but you won't expect a rider getting discriminated for scuffing rather than doing something different.

Uchie's run did seem repetitive to me but that's because im human and i need to blink from time to time, so i really don't understand how Trevor got this one, because with all respect, and there is plenty of it, some of Trevor's trick even I could do and i count myself no where near at their level...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 14, 2010, 04:22:20 PM
For the record, I'm not taking either side of this debate.  What I'm trying to make people realize that is we can argue until we're all crazy but no one will be "right" until we have some real, clearly defined standards for judging.

Attacking the judges who volunteer their time won't help anything. 

Complaining about things without offering anything constructive won't help anything. 

Saying something along the lines of  "everything should be judged equally, unless there's an exception that I decide on arbitrarily right now"  won't help anything.
 
Already our sport is totally, laughably disorganized compared to the rest of BMX.  Our guys make a minute fraction of what the ramp guys make, and those that do make money do so only by endlessly touring.  You don't see this kind of debate going on at the Dew Tour, because those guys have their sh*t together, and we really don't, and we never, ever have.   Everyone's too busy out learning some new link the parking lot, working on their "art".     

What we really need is some judging standards if we are going to have contests.  We need to clearly define for example, should a spinning hiker be judged higher than, say a time machine?  How much?  How much should "flow" come into the rating?  Should a rider who rides with a lot of flow and does really fluid good looking tricks win over someone who does sketchy links that are harder.  How much harder to sketchy tricks have to be to win over smooth flowy stuff?  How much should mistakes count off?   

See, there's no real answer to any of these questions.  If this seems overly clinical, that's because it is.  But if we want to eliminate opinion in contests then that's what we have to do.  I would task all ya'll that are so upset to start thinking about it and see if you can improve on what previous generations have never been able to accomplish.  This is your sport now, make something of it.  We couldn't. 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 05:24:23 PM
Well that's one of the problems with flatland, you can't make pretty clear decisions like a double whip 360 is harder than a 360... and on top of that each rider has his own tricks he is comfortable with, you could land a dork wheelie to footjam decade but have no idea how to do time machines while others are just the opposite..

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: joelweevil on April 14, 2010, 06:02:45 PM
So everyone cries about the judging system AND thinks Chad Johnston's matrix is for the birds. You complainers are a bunch of fruits. How about everyone but Chad come up with a totally perfect judging system. At least he's trying to level it out. By the way, who's supposed to win? The flavor of the month? I'd have picked Trevor also as he had variety. Is Ucchie's flair that he's a smaller-statured person who can spin fast? Trevor's got like two feet on him which changes physics and his spinning speed. Get over your dizzying selves.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 14, 2010, 07:12:23 PM
From now on flatland contests will be judged by the following criteria, weighted like this....

-Difficulty -30%  - keeps the riders from playing it safe to win and keeps the drama up
-Originality -15% - pushing innovation, as it's usually harder to develop new ideas.  Judges would have to be well versed in the history of BMX though to keep people from rolling out ideas from 18 years ago that might be passed off as new though. 
-Completion -30% - Not weighted so heavily people aren't scared to try harder tricks, but weighted heavily enough where people can't win putting their foot down 5x in 1 minute.  Also keeps drama up, as a fall could cost you the win.   
-Flow/Style - 12.5% - 
-Variety -12.5% - general measure of being a good all around rider.  Not too many tricks of the same type. 

Adjusted for the following variables: 
-whether or not their tricks are timed to the music
-double points for tricks with one eye closed
-what they did last month at a good spot
-if they are friends with Chad Degroot or not
-height/weight ratio of the rider
-if they are wearing matching belt and shoes
-whether or not they ride a back brake, preferably a 990
-alphabetically by last name
-if they were in Baco 7 or not
-whether or not they gave me a ride to the contest

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: wookie on April 14, 2010, 07:28:43 PM
 It's a flatland contest!  There will be some questionable calls!  It's freestyle!  There are not compulsory tricks one must perform.  There is NOT a standardized scoring system.  Riders are not required to use the exact same equipment.  Hell some of them aren't even riding with cranks, or pegs, or (gasp) brakes.  There are going to be some tough calls because like it or not when you are asking for an overall impression alone it opens the door for bias to creep in.  Just sayin'

Brian

ps.  I would have given it to Ucchie because Trevor pumped more ^_^
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 07:38:21 PM
From now on flatland contests will be judged by the following criteria, weighted like this....

-Difficulty -30%  - keeps the riders from playing it safe to win and keeps the drama up
-Originality -15% - pushing innovation, as it's usually harder to develop new ideas.  Judges would have to be well versed in the history of BMX though to keep people from rolling out ideas from 18 years ago that might be passed off as new though. 
-Completion -30% - Not weighted so heavily people aren't scared to try harder tricks, but weighted heavily enough where people can't win putting their foot down 5x in 1 minute.  Also keeps drama up, as a fall could cost you the win.   
-Flow/Style - 12.5% - 
-Variety -12.5% - general measure of being a good all around rider.  Not too many tricks of the same type. 




no no no no no no no no NO NO NO NONO NONONONO.

::bangs head on keyboard::
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Burd on April 14, 2010, 07:45:01 PM
-if they are wearing matching belt and shoes

What about a matching belt and socks?  At Fight with Flight, Shintaro was wearing an orange belt and orange socks that also matched his orange rims if I remember correctly.  I was very impressed by this.  I can't even remember if Matt Wilhelm, who beat Shintaro in the finals, was wearing a belt at all...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JFos on April 14, 2010, 07:46:45 PM
Tj honestly.


you dont think style should be coutned period?


why the f*ck count originality OR variety then?

I mean if someones confidently hitting the tricks it should count somewhere.

Where you going to place that?



This is Danes and Shintaros ZONE. Your realy in a funk as of late I believe and coming off as such online.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 08:00:58 PM
Is Ucchie's flair that he's a smaller-statured person who can spin fast? Trevor's got like two feet on him which changes physics and his spinning speed. Get over your dizzying selves.
Taking rider's physics into count?... what?...
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: infeCt3d on April 14, 2010, 08:11:28 PM
IM SORRY BUT IM GOING ALL CAPS ON THIS ONE..... IM GOING MUTT STYLES!!!

OK... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.... WE ALL KNOW ITS BAD JUDGING....OR THIS AND DAT WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE... :huh: BUT "J E S S E P U E N T E" HAS BEEN TRYING TO ENFORCE THAT THE JUDGES BE THE RIDERS!!!!! AND WHOEVER THEY THINK WON THE BATTLE OR WHAT NOT... WRITE IT ON A PIECE OF PAPER.... AND AT THE END IT ALL GETS COLLECTED... AND WAHH LAHHH... AND I DONT THINK THE RIDERS ARE GONNA GET SHADY ON THE VOTING.  IM PRETTY SURE RIDERS HAVE RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER AND KNOW WHATS UP!  ANYWAYS I GOTA HEAD OUT TRY THAT ONE OUT! :beer:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 14, 2010, 08:16:51 PM
Tj honestly.


you dont think style should be coutned period?



Style as in, the motion in which the rider expresses himself? How smooth he is? No, I don't at all. Some people really like that "omg on the edge" riding, some people like smooth and controlled. I don't think it's fair to take that into account.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jm on April 14, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
Who was that pro that had the blond curly hair and a very controlled style? I liked his riding a lot but I can't remember his name.

Dane Beardsley
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 14, 2010, 08:53:38 PM
Okay, maybe we should change the criteria from matching belt and shoes to matching belt, shoes, AND shirt.  Gotta be fair. 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 10:34:47 PM
Who was that pro that had the blond curly hair and a very controlled style? I liked his riding a lot but I can't remember his name.

Also I was wondering if they ever do contest where maybe like for the first run they have to do the same routine? Seems they do this in a lot of sports that involve personal expression such as gymnastics and ice skating for example. Kind of adds a nice twist to a competition that maybe helps judges not get distracted by style and focus more on ability to perform some of the basic techniques required for that level of athlete in that particular competition. Then the following run/s a rider could do his own thing and individual style could be more of a factor. Not really familiar with how these things go down and maybe that's a lame idea but could be interesting. A competition must be as fair as possible. If judges don't like pumping, for example, then they need to communicate that to the participants, especially when so much money is involved and a lot of these guys traveled a long way. I'm sure some of them are capable of riding many different styles and are willing to do so if it means a few extra grand.
making a run that all riders must pull is kinda.. well.. wrong in my opinion.


D: TJ has a good point, don't be so narrow minded?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: D on April 14, 2010, 10:42:50 PM
From now on flatland contests will be judged by the following criteria, weighted like this....

-Difficulty -30%  - keeps the riders from playing it safe to win and keeps the drama up
-Originality -15% - pushing innovation, as it's usually harder to develop new ideas.  Judges would have to be well versed in the history of BMX though to keep people from rolling out ideas from 18 years ago that might be passed off as new though. 
-Completion -30% - Not weighted so heavily people aren't scared to try harder tricks, but weighted heavily enough where people can't win putting their foot down 5x in 1 minute.  Also keeps drama up, as a fall could cost you the win.   
-Flow/Style - 12.5% - 
-Variety -12.5% - general measure of being a good all around rider.  Not too many tricks of the same type. 




no no no no no no no no NO NO NO NONO NONONONO.

::bangs head on keyboard::

TJ, read the rest of my post, I'm obviously being sarcastic there.  I have no idea what would be the "right" weights to put on all the different judging criteria, but you'd put so much emphasis in this thread on originality and difficulty and so little on variety I would think you'd not be so upset.  If you had to decide, how would you weight things so judges won't be able to grant higher placings based on criteria that you don't find as important as others?   (I'm not being a smartass here, I really want  to hear what you think)   
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 11:04:03 PM
I think a large part agrees that battle format should be kept as it is, splitting the decisions that each judges one category or other is specific for each event.

In the end it does not matter what format you are using if judging is biased.

whether its personal preferences of style\technique or whatever..
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 777 on April 14, 2010, 11:20:55 PM
An impartial observation of TJ Perry:
He makes a big fuss over the event
He was absent from the event
He is not qualified to judge a beauty pagent
He would horribly incompetent as a flatland judge
He was absent from the event
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 14, 2010, 11:25:31 PM
An impartial observation of TJ Perry:
He makes a big fuss over the event
He was absent from the event
He is not qualified to judge a beauty pagent
He would horribly incompetent as a flatland judge
He was absent from the event
lol it always comes to TJ being flamed by everyone  ^_^

first of all, flataritarian, any one?

second of all, what use have you done with that post bringing us closer to solving this issue despite a big wish to start a few pages of stupid quarrels?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: canaryrx8 on April 14, 2010, 11:54:19 PM
So 12 pages later there seems to be some grief about the judging, right, I get it. All this talk about Ucchie, nobody seems to think Matt didn't get screwed as well? or Dane? In any case, there seems to be multiple riders who got dissed despite this being a pretty rad event anyway, so my question is, how can this be prevented for future contests? Do we need to go back to the AFA days? Get some sort of sanctioning body started or? How about we blacklist bad judges and notify the next event personnel somehow? If riding and competing and flatland is so important to everyone, can we stop the bitchfest and turn this into a solutions thread? I know we're all pretty creative people, some might be skilled or talented in different aspects of life or whatever, so maybe we all braindump some ideas and put them all together and have a vote or something? I'm generally pretty optomistic, I do believe it is humanly possible to have a sick event with crazy bad ass riding going on and have it judged fairly at the same time, so maybe we can all work towards making that a CONSISTENT reality somehow? I know we can do better than this, it's frustrating to watch and read and not see anything being done.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 15, 2010, 12:07:04 AM
So 12 pages later there seems to be some grief about the judging, right, I get it. All this talk about Ucchie, nobody seems to think Matt didn't get screwed as well? or Dane? In any case, there seems to be multiple riders who got dissed despite this being a pretty rad event anyway, so my question is, how can this be prevented for future contests? Do we need to go back to the AFA days? Get some sort of sanctioning body started or? How about we blacklist bad judges and notify the next event personnel somehow? If riding and competing and flatland is so important to everyone, can we stop the bitchfest and turn this into a solutions thread? I know we're all pretty creative people, some might be skilled or talented in different aspects of life or whatever, so maybe we all braindump some ideas and put them all together and have a vote or something? I'm generally pretty optomistic, I do believe it is humanly possible to have a sick event with crazy bad ass riding going on and have it judged fairly at the same time, so maybe we can all work towards making that a CONSISTENT reality somehow? I know we can do better than this, it's frustrating to watch and read and not see anything being done.

+ f*cking 1. Ucchie has forgave and forgot. Trevor is psyched on riding more then ever. So lets follow them..And like several have mentioned..Start throwing creative solutions out in this thread. If you have something else negative to say about the contest, maybe you should sit and think on it untill the next event/ next years jomo. As I honestly feel better expressing emotions like these in person is so much better. "Till the next episode..."
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 15, 2010, 01:15:49 AM
An impartial observation of TJ Perry:
He makes a big fuss over the event
He was absent from the event
He is not qualified to judge a beauty pagent
He would horribly incompetent as a flatland judge
He was absent from the event

Put some effort into it why don't you.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stvnlpsly on April 15, 2010, 02:15:03 AM
On a positive note... the AM Flatland Circuit Rankings have been updated!  The Expert Class is all but won... however, the Master Class is anyones!  Check out http://www.amflatlandcircuit.com (http://www.amflatlandcircuit.com)

Also... note that 62 riders have competed in the circuit so far this year!  Amazing!!!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: canaryrx8 on April 15, 2010, 03:52:54 AM
On a positive note... the AM Flatland Circuit Rankings have been updated!  The Expert Class is all but won... however, the Master Class is anyones!  Check out [url]http://www.amflatlandcircuit.com[/url] ([url]http://www.amflatlandcircuit.com[/url])

Also... note that 62 riders have competed in the circuit so far this year!  Amazing!!!


nice!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pat on April 15, 2010, 05:40:14 AM
lol its all tj's fault of course  :rolleyes: i dont think you people realize, he may be a total asshole (especially online) but you cannot call him a guy who hides behind his keyboard avoiding all events and people he argues with. tj has made it to plenty of events, judged more than one from what i remember, and is even judging the online video battles
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 15, 2010, 05:53:30 AM
lol its all tj's fault of course  :rolleyes: i dont think you people realize, he may be a total asshole (especially online) but you cannot call him a guy who hides behind his keyboard avoiding all events and people he argues with. tj has made it to plenty of events, judged more than one from what i remember, and is even judging the online video battles

What's funny was that while I was screaming at the results of the battles over the live stream, I was ass up in a mirror breaking open an abcess that formed at the base of my spine from falling on my ass while riding. I got a quarter cup of blood and puss out of that son of a bitch. UGH that sucked. I did send pictures to Tyler Gillard though lol.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: rick macdonald on April 15, 2010, 02:20:10 PM
Disgusting!

That might be a good post to end this thread with...


I hope it's better soon though...ugh!

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: stuntnuts on April 15, 2010, 06:57:33 PM
***THIS JUST IN***
Martin Aparijo will be attending the next "big" event in hopes of following in Trevor's shoes by performing a run consisting of trackstands, infinity rolls, and peg hops to at least secure a second place spot.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 15, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
***THIS JUST IN***
Martin Aparijo will be attending the next "big" event in hopes of following in Trevor's shoes by performing a run consisting of trackstands, infinity rolls, and peg hops to at least secure a second place spot.

best post of this thread easily
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: froghammer on April 16, 2010, 03:14:16 AM
***THIS JUST IN***
Martin Aparijo will be attending the next "big" event in hopes of following in Trevor's shoes by performing a run consisting of trackstands, infinity rolls, and peg hops to at least secure a second place spot.

No cherry pickers? Pfff- he has no chance.  ^_^
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JoeKickass on April 16, 2010, 05:12:13 PM
Since all contests are judged by humans, it's always subjective.
Please shut up about this after every contest.
It provides nothing positive.  Ever.

The bottom line is -- this was a sweet event that turned out a lot of great riders. 
Let's keep our eye on the ball. 

Thanks.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:02:53 AM
lol its all tj's fault of course  :rolleyes: i dont think you people realize, he may be a total asshole (especially online) but you cannot call him a guy who hides behind his keyboard avoiding all events and people he argues with. tj has made it to plenty of events, judged more than one from what i remember, and is even judging the online video battles

What's funny was that while I was screaming at the results of the battles over the live stream, I was ass up in a mirror breaking open an abcess that formed at the base of my spine from falling on my ass while riding. I got a quarter cup of blood and puss out of that son of a bitch. UGH that sucked. I did send pictures to Tyler Gillard though lol.
Maybe you should wipe better and shower more often,remember , Cleanliness is next to.......... The fact you took pix shows just how out of your mind YOU really are.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:06:24 AM
Maybe you should wipe better and shower more often,remember , Cleanliness is next to.......... The fact you took pix shows just how out of your mind YOU really are.

I fell on my tailbone about a week prior to that and the wound got infected because of how much I sweat when I ride. You know, ride my bike? Not sure if you're familiar with the activity seeing as your hobbies are mostly contained to looking at and posting pictures of bikes on the internet, and stalking young men.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:10:37 AM
Maybe you should wipe better and shower more often,remember , Cleanliness is next to.......... The fact you took pix shows just how out of your mind YOU really are.

I fell on my tailbone about a week prior to that and the wound got infected because of how much I sweat when I ride. You know, ride my bike? Not sure if you're familiar with the activity seeing as your hobbies are mostly designated to looking at and posting pictures of bikes on the internet, and stalking young men.
I guess I stalked the whole comp,but I only POSTED your failures....wanna see them again? YOU sent pix of your CREAMPIE to another guy AND you spend ALOT of time in Public restrooms with other guys by your own admission.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:18:48 AM
I guess I stalked the whole comp,but I only POSTED your failures....wanna see them again? YOU sent pix of your CREAMPIE to another guy AND you spend ALOT of time in Public restrooms with other guys by your own admission.

hey look TJ didn't land a trick under pressure obviously he is a complete failure at flatland never mind what else he can do on a bike! boy i sure am glad you have the skills over my riding to be able to call me out like this or else you'd look really stupid!

all those pictures you took, and all that video, and apparently the only thing worthwhile was me. I feel like jody foster post-reagan assassination attempt and not in a good way. I guess you want to be in that bathroom with me more than the guys with red eyes in indy eh eh?  :wub:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: g-man on April 18, 2010, 06:23:19 AM
***THIS JUST IN***
Martin Aparijo will be attending the next "big" event in hopes of following in Trevor's shoes by performing a run consisting of trackstands, infinity rolls, and peg hops to at least secure a second place spot.
Your an ignorant fuk. That was a poor joke you tried to make and it was directed at another riders riding.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:24:59 AM
I guess I stalked the whole comp,but I only POSTED your failures....wanna see them again? YOU sent pix of your CREAMPIE to another guy AND you spend ALOT of time in Public restrooms with other guys by your own admission.

hey look TJ didn't land a trick under pressure obviously he is a complete failure at flatland never mind what else he can do on a bike! boy i sure am glad you have the skills over my riding to be able to call me out like this or else you'd look really stupid!

all those pictures you took, and all that video, and apparently the only thing worthwhile was me. I feel like jody foster post-reagan assassination attempt and not in a good way. I guess you want to be in that bathroom with me more than the guys with red eyes in indy eh eh?  :wub:
Now the excuse changes..You said "slippery floor" , now its under pressure. You're a LIAR over and over.... as for the Bathroom reference............... I snagged this one of ya too! :wub:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:27:49 AM
Now the excuse changes..You said "slippery floor" , now its under pressure. You're a LIAR over and over.... as for the Bathroom reference............... I snagged this one of ya too! :wub:

look at that good lookin dude right there. I bet you have a whole folder and subdirectory of all my photos that have ever been on the internet.

How about this, you do my tricks, then you can talk all you want about failure and this and that. Hell, you do my tricks from like 5 years ago and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. free reign to say whatever without the slightest rebuttal. Just for doing some of the tricks I was doing when I was what.. 18? 19? That should be easy right?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:29:22 AM
I DAMN sure can pull this.........
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:31:37 AM
I DAMN sure can pull this.........

if you rode bikes yes you would fall also as well but i sure am glad you haven't taken the leap of faith to actually pedaling one of those 10+ bikes you have lounging around your garage.

like I said, pull my tricks from 5 years ago and you can say whatever.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:32:14 AM
And I bet if I tried REAL hard , I could probably pull this too... BTW ,they are filed under the title you read under them........FAIL!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:35:04 AM
And I bet if I tried REAL hard , I could probably pull this too... BTW ,they are filed under the title you read under them........FAIL!

you saying I fell at a contest is kind of like telling me i have legs. you're not really saying anything witty or new here.

so when can we expect a video of my tricks?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:38:22 AM
And I bet if I tried REAL hard , I could probably pull this too... BTW ,they are filed under the title you read under them........FAIL!

you saying I fell at a contest is kind of like telling me i have legs. you're not really saying anything witty or new here.

so when can we expect a video of my tricks?
Are you that dense??? I have said this dozens of times, There are no vids of me ,no pix of me,never was ,never will. I won't be Judged by you,ever. and quit asking for them, you're creeping me out already.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:40:55 AM
Are you that dense??? I have said this dozens of times, There are no vids of me ,no pix of me,never was ,never will. I won't be Judged by you,ever. and quit asking for them, you're creeping me out already.

ah okay back into the corner with you then.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:46:32 AM
Are you that dense??? I have said this dozens of times, There are no vids of me ,no pix of me,never was ,never will. I won't be Judged by you,ever. and quit asking for them, you're creeping me out already.

ah okay back into the corner with you then.
as if........you couldn't ever quiet me. So which was it? "Slippery floor"? or "Under Pressure" because you talk so much crap on here and knew you'd collapse in front of the people you have dropped judgement on and ridiculed. OR was it " Oh come hither my pretties I can do it all and tell you how to also" and then..................FAIL!! ???
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 06:49:32 AM
Well???  5 1/2 mins later..... Yeah, you go think of some lame ass excuse or some "snappy" response and get back to me.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 06:54:16 AM
as if........you couldn't ever quiet me. So which was it? "Slippery floor"? or "Under Pressure" because you talk so much crap on here and knew you'd collapse in front of the people you have dropped judgement on and ridiculed. OR was it " Oh come hither my pretties I can do it all and tell you how to also" and then..................FAIL!! ???


i didn't know i had to justify not landing a trick to you considering that you don't even have the balls to put a picture of yourself on here let alone your riding. i wasn't aware that every fall in a riders career needed to be investigated.

let it go man. just let it go. you can't do any tricks, you hide in the shadows, you hyper focus on bike pictures on the internet. i ride my bike, progress, travel around when i can and don't cower from public view. you are literally in no way shape or form qualified to pass judgment on me. You're the dreaded all to common species of internetus flatarius that poachers with calluses on their hands from real riding should have taken out back and put down years ago.

you coming to york? maybe bring your bike so you can show me all those tricks of mine you're gonna learn so you can put me in my place once and for all?

hey guys so how about that jomopro contest some thing eh?

edit: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Sportinlife/gatorsgonnagait.gif)

 :P
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:02:07 AM
as if........you couldn't ever quiet me. So which was it? "Slippery floor"? or "Under Pressure" because you talk so much crap on here and knew you'd collapse in front of the people you have dropped judgement on and ridiculed. OR was it " Oh come hither my pretties I can do it all and tell you how to also" and then..................FAIL!! ???


i didn't know i had to justify not landing a trick to you considering that you don't even have the balls to put a picture of yourself on here let alone your riding. i wasn't aware that every fall in a riders career needed to be investigated.

let it go man. just let it go. you can't do any tricks, you hide in the shadows, you hyper focus on bike pictures on the internet. i ride my bike, progress, travel around when i can and don't cower from public view. you are literally in no way shape or form qualified to pass judgment on me. You're the dreaded all to common species of internetus flatarius that poachers with calluses on their hands from real riding should have taken out back and put down years ago.

you coming to york? maybe bring your bike so you can show me all those tricks of mine you're gonna learn so you can put me in my place once and for all?

hey guys so how about that jomopro contest some thing eh?

edit: ([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Sportinlife/gatorsgonnagait.gif[/url])

 :P
Not only deflection but running for help?   Fail again. I heard JOMO was GREAT, great Judges for a change....did you compete Mr Progress? I don't recall seein' your name in the results.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pat on April 18, 2010, 07:07:50 AM
your giving him crap for not going to a contest that you did not compete in either... i love you guys  :wub:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:12:26 AM
your giving him crap for not going to a contest that you did not compete in either...
Wait..wut?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ijdevil on April 18, 2010, 07:19:34 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Pat on April 18, 2010, 07:21:44 AM
there is no solution... this is what happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:27:34 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.
HAHA! nope. I haven't competed since 89'. But that's funny. I have always givin him props on his Edited vids historically,I just posted the pix so everyone who wasn't there could see . the video shows even MORE .Solution, he acts like a decent person and leaves people alone.Besides check his Profile, I am his ONLY friend after 3 attempts. My Buddy.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
HAHA! nope. I haven't competed since 89'. But that's funny. I have always givin him props on his Edited vids historically,I just posted the pix so everyone who wasn't there could see . the video shows even MORE .Solution, he acts like a decent person and leaves people alone.

how about you just compete in the battles instead of calling me out on my riding every chance you get? my god man, it's not that hard.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:32:29 AM
HAHA! nope. I haven't competed since 89'. But that's funny. I have always givin him props on his Edited vids historically,I just posted the pix so everyone who wasn't there could see . the video shows even MORE .Solution, he acts like a decent person and leaves people alone.

how about you just compete in the battles instead of calling me out on my riding every chance you get? my god man, it's not that hard.
Slippery floor or Under Pressure? my god man, it's a simple question.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 07:38:07 AM
HAHA! nope. I haven't competed since 89'. But that's funny. I have always givin him props on his Edited vids historically,I just posted the pix so everyone who wasn't there could see . the video shows even MORE .Solution, he acts like a decent person and leaves people alone.

how about you just compete in the battles instead of calling me out on my riding every chance you get? my god man, it's not that hard.
Slippery floor or Under Pressure? my god man, it's a simple question.

a bit of both actually. what's your excuse for not competing or hell, you know.. riding at all?

like i said, when you can do any of my tricks, we'll talk. In the meantime I'm going to go polish the trophey collection I have from 2000-2003, which is a hell of a lot more than you've got.  :P
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 18, 2010, 07:40:40 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.

+1 ...Where you at Juggs?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:42:39 AM
HAHA! nope. I haven't competed since 89'. But that's funny. I have always givin him props on his Edited vids historically,I just posted the pix so everyone who wasn't there could see . the video shows even MORE .Solution, he acts like a decent person and leaves people alone.

how about you just compete in the battles instead of calling me out on my riding every chance you get? my god man, it's not that hard.
Slippery floor or Under Pressure? my god man, it's a simple question.

a bit of both actually. what's your excuse for not competing or hell, you know.. riding at all?

like i said, when you can do any of my tricks, we'll talk. In the meantime I'm going to go polish the trophey collection I have from 2000-2003, which is a hell of a lot more than you've got.  :P
you were saying?         Edit: You Polish "tropheys"?  7-10 yrs ago? any recent?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 07:44:09 AM
So there is no proof that you actually the owner of any of those trophies? alright hahaha

edit: competing in 1989 is pretty much a joke when compared to the riding in 2001-2003 when I was competing.

do you have a name so I can look you up? Maybe post some pictures holding your bubble helmet or something?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:45:22 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.

+1 ...Where you at Juggs?
Right here, did you somehow miss my response? I was like" HAHA , nope"
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 07:49:07 AM
So there is no proof that you actually the owner of any of those trophies? alright hahaha

edit: competing in 1989 is pretty much a joke when compared to the riding in 2001-2003 when I was competing.
No, the joke is that you are is that you are challenging a 40 yr old who rides for fun,so I'll extend the same offer to you I gave to Tim. You do MY competition ;D , beat me ;D , and I'll do yours and then you can beat me......Hows that?

EDIT: I am refering to cutting and spliting wood for the Winter of course ......competetively. ;D
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 08:02:09 AM


EDIT: I am refering to cutting and spliting wood for the Winter of course ......competetively. ;D

ah yes the old "i can punch really hard which counts for something" argument.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Nesquik on April 18, 2010, 08:05:37 AM


EDIT: I am refering to cutting and spliting wood for the Winter of course ......competetively. ;D

ah yes the old "i can punch really hard which counts for something" argument.
Show the proof that you could beat him and cutting and splitting wood.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 08:09:36 AM


EDIT: I am refering to cutting and spliting wood for the Winter of course ......competetively. ;D

ah yes the old "i can punch really hard which counts for something" argument.
Show the proof that you could beat him and cutting and splitting wood.


I'd bet my bike I can beat him...........oh wait.....he'd Welch. Ummm , I just know I can ^_^  what do ya say?  Bring your own Stihl and splitting Maul.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: jm on April 18, 2010, 08:10:08 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.


I call first dibs on filming those three together at York.
http://teammcduff.blogspot.com/ (http://teammcduff.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 08:15:07 AM
The incident is based around Trevor and Uchie, but........UMMMM......I'm guessing their over it.

SOLUTION ---- 2flat2furious v.s. juggarnaut @ York - 5 judge battle format / One 1:30 run.


I call first dibs on filming those three together at York.
[url]http://teammcduff.blogspot.com/[/url] ([url]http://teammcduff.blogspot.com/[/url])
^_^ ! and the Judges are The K, Chase ,Scott Powell ,Budz and Trevor Meyer? That would be a HOOT! But he has to beat me for this to happen, we'll do my comp the day before York.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 08:19:29 AM
i don't even know how to respond to being called out for wanting to battle the dude calling me out left and right without showing his riding, and instead having someone call me out on not wanting to chop wood.

it's like trying to settle a debt and expecting the creditor to accept wampum or something.

Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on April 18, 2010, 08:23:39 AM
i don't even know how to respond to being called out for wanting to battle the dude calling me out left and right without showing his riding, and instead having someone call me out on not wanting to chop wood.

it's like trying to settle a debt and expecting the creditor to accept wampum or something.


^_^ That IS funny. Just be nice from now on and we're good ,hows that?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 08:28:18 AM
i don't even know how to respond to being called out for wanting to battle the dude calling me out left and right without showing his riding, and instead having someone call me out on not wanting to chop wood.

it's like trying to settle a debt and expecting the creditor to accept wampum or something.


^_^ That IS funny. Just be nice from now on and we're good ,hows that?

how about you stop turning every thread into something about me?
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ASC on April 18, 2010, 08:40:24 AM
JM..."YOU ARE TALKING TO ME ALL WRONG" Blog pic....HAHA Sums up this trail that is following every competition. DOOMED...At the end of the day the original competition post will be taken over by THE TRAIL.

Its a ball and chain confusion between the TJ and J...the freak is on. I have to say Juggs that was funny...TJ's friends are you and cat. Loyal indeed. Both will never ever fail each other. This we all know.
Wink wink...you think they both can talk about the weather again. -_-

The day you all realize you are really a bunch of artists, then it will become a sport, actual stiffs ^_^...N
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Flatgod on April 18, 2010, 08:48:25 AM
This has really turned hilarious!! To see one of the most heated arguments about a contest lead to this petty nonsense. Jug - Stop harassing him. TJ - Ignore him. Stop it. Stop bitching - both of you.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: 2flat2furious on April 18, 2010, 08:57:55 AM
This has really turned hilarious!! To see one of the most heated arguments about a contest lead to this petty nonsense. Jug - Stop harassing him. TJ - Ignore him. Stop it. Stop bitching - both of you.

I'm bored at work i don't know what his excuse is I just have nothing else to do during a mid-6am shift lol.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: mbflatland09 on April 18, 2010, 02:19:02 PM
Personally I think everyone should shut the f*ck up about Trevor. Everyone is so up his ass. Get a grip fags. Trevor showing up to Jomo pro was good for Flatland. As far as the little argument with the 40 year old and TJ. Who gives a sh*t.... Your all fags
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: DaviD (dave0) on April 18, 2010, 02:23:06 PM
This has really turned hilarious!! To see one of the most heated arguments about a contest lead to this petty nonsense. Jug - Stop harassing him. TJ - Ignore him. Stop it. Stop bitching - both of you.

I'm bored at work i don't know what his excuse is I just have nothing else to do during a mid-6am shift lol.

lol.

juggarnaut i have no idea how old you are but you act completely stupid and infantile.

seems TJ gets a kick out of it, but you seem serious about it in some way?

"oh look i have a bigger cock"
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: canaryrx8 on April 19, 2010, 02:42:40 AM
So 12 pages later there seems to be some grief about the judging, right, I get it. All this talk about Ucchie, nobody seems to think Matt didn't get screwed as well? or Dane? In any case, there seems to be multiple riders who got dissed despite this being a pretty rad event anyway, so my question is, how can this be prevented for future contests? Do we need to go back to the AFA days? Get some sort of sanctioning body started or? How about we blacklist bad judges and notify the next event personnel somehow? If riding and competing and flatland is so important to everyone, can we stop the bitchfest and turn this into a solutions thread? I know we're all pretty creative people, some might be skilled or talented in different aspects of life or whatever, so maybe we all braindump some ideas and put them all together and have a vote or something? I'm generally pretty optomistic, I do believe it is humanly possible to have a sick event with crazy bad ass riding going on and have it judged fairly at the same time, so maybe we can all work towards making that a CONSISTENT reality somehow? I know we can do better than this, it's frustrating to watch and read and not see anything being done.

12 pages and then 3 pages of derailment, so anything new being done for the next contest to avert something like this from repeating itself or? I'm guessing no, but I figured I'd throw it out there again anyway. 
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: Havokflat on April 19, 2010, 04:16:31 AM
So 12 pages later there seems to be some grief about the judging, right, I get it. All this talk about Ucchie, nobody seems to think Matt didn't get screwed as well? or Dane? In any case, there seems to be multiple riders who got dissed despite this being a pretty rad event anyway, so my question is, how can this be prevented for future contests? Do we need to go back to the AFA days? Get some sort of sanctioning body started or? How about we blacklist bad judges and notify the next event personnel somehow? If riding and competing and flatland is so important to everyone, can we stop the bitchfest and turn this into a solutions thread? I know we're all pretty creative people, some might be skilled or talented in different aspects of life or whatever, so maybe we all braindump some ideas and put them all together and have a vote or something? I'm generally pretty optomistic, I do believe it is humanly possible to have a sick event with crazy bad ass riding going on and have it judged fairly at the same time, so maybe we can all work towards making that a CONSISTENT reality somehow? I know we can do better than this, it's frustrating to watch and read and not see anything being done.

12 pages and then 3 pages of derailment, so anything new being done for the next contest to avert something like this from repeating itself or? I'm guessing no, but I figured I'd throw it out there again anyway. 
after every contest this year, there's been sh!t IMMEDIATELY started.
is this what American contests are about? :huh:
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ASC on April 19, 2010, 05:33:31 AM
Actually there's cool thoughts that do come out of Events...some just bring in personal petty, unresolved issues, this is the only thing that comes in the way. Actually TJ and many in the riding community hit dead on with respect to the failure in this particular events judging decision.

FWF?...the Floor was issue and an important issue. Every rider cares about their surface, this is an issue long before any event be it in NA or where ever this may be in the world.

Jomopro?...judging was and is an issue. The format/outcomes/results has been an issue also, long before this event.

When one gets or attains "Free Rider" status it allows for experimentation, therefore no losses(sponsors, spectators, etc...) when dealing with any given riding space or formats...I feel Flatland can be at the "Free Rider" status once the different schools of thought reach a common unified ground at the same time embracing diversity...(you either can dig this or you don't)...N
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: g-man on April 20, 2010, 08:17:08 AM
***THIS JUST IN***
Martin Aparijo will be attending the next "big" event in hopes of following in Trevor's shoes by performing a run consisting of trackstands, infinity rolls, and peg hops to at least secure a second place spot.

best post of this thread easily
Not cool man. Don't promote this stuff.
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: g-man on April 20, 2010, 08:19:29 AM
You guys are going to have to let go of this. You all have made a grass roots stance, that will be responded to, in a positive way.
This  IS the awesome thing of this site,,,, you can't fool the inmates.

Its time to let go! This site (by all the jomopro shiit Ive read) seems to have vigilanty justice in its heart.

I think the continual bashing of a rider (and I can quote alot of it) in everyones path of justice is despicable,

and it doesn't change the results. This site made its point 1 week ago,,,, now it just looks rediculous.

I truly hope that this site isn't responsible for sending another great to the underground!
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: SNOOP on April 20, 2010, 08:50:01 AM
You guys are going to have to let go of this. You all have made a grass roots stance, that will be responded to, in a positive way.
This  IS the awesome thing of this site,,,, you can't fool the inmates.

Its time to let go! This site (by all the jomopro shiit Ive read) seems to have vigilanty justice in its heart.

I think the continual bashing of a rider (and I can quote alot of it) in everyones path of justice is despicable,

and it doesn't change the results. This site made its point 1 week ago,,,, now it just looks rediculous.

I truly hope that this site isn't responsible for sending another great contest to the ground!


Fixt
Title: Re: JoMoPro 2010 Results
Post by: ASC on April 20, 2010, 09:16:47 AM
Strong minds don't worry about what other people think, they just adapt from scenario to scenario.

That's the deal, and that is why some get to do what they do.

...anyway 4th round AMs is coming up and so is the next contest...move toward support.

Have a great summer, and maybe I will see GFers in a few months time.

Cheers,
Neela