Global-flat.com Board

English => Parts and Bikes => Topic started by: Budz on December 15, 2009, 12:29:55 AM

Title: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Budz on December 15, 2009, 12:29:55 AM
thats the word from the man Moliterno himself! :mellow:
sorry...i couldnt control my excitement and had to post something about it. ;D

Rick Moliterno is looking for some frame feedback...i told him to peep global-flat for input from the riders themselves. if enough people use this time to post what you would like to see, im sure Rick will pop his head in here to see what people want these days. it would be sweet to see Standard Bykes back on the scene!
its my understanding that they also do custom frames...so if your ideas arent what they want, u can always get something custom built up to your specs.

so, whats the word people?...what would u like to see in a new Standard flat frame?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 15, 2009, 12:32:35 AM
first - twin top tubes!haha jk ..but seriously..ok now someone who has an educated opinion..
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: PSchoolen on December 15, 2009, 12:42:21 AM
Rick and I have been talking about this for a looooong time. I hope he pulls the trigger soon and gets some frames made.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Red43j on December 15, 2009, 12:44:51 AM
Rick and I have been talking about this for a looooong time. I hope he pulls the trigger soon and gets some frames made.

As do I.
It boggles the mind, the potential for them to come back into the game and make something amazing.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Red43j on December 15, 2009, 12:46:53 AM
Rick and I have been talking about this for a looooong time. I hope he pulls the trigger soon and gets some frames made.

Pat-
Have you given Rick any ideas? I think that they have had 3 pretty decent frames with some cool ideas. I STILL love the Shaman and the Tao (side note: anyone got stickers for these frames that you want to sell?). I'd love to see Rick take the design of the Tao, and do something modern with it.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: dan4130 on December 15, 2009, 12:48:16 AM
Updated 87 haro master. 19.5. TT
would be nice
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 15, 2009, 01:12:28 AM
Rick, if you're reading this, completely disregard any and all requests of Tao's and Shamans. Please.

Don't remake that OX tao either. Do a straight no frills frame in two lengths, 18.8 and 19.2, 12.75-13.5 in the back or something along those lines. Keep the weight to a little under or around 4.5 lbs, and don't make the top tube too high. All straight tubes, and make sure the clearance is good in the back and under the downtube. Get flatlanders to test it. Get people who test it who you are confident will tell you whether or not it flat out sucks or not because if you don't have people like that, you won't know whether or not flatlanders will like it. That's kind of a no brainer, but it seems like most companies are not doing this so I figured I'd say something.

Flatland has changed A LOT since the 90's and most people do not want another Tao unless it's to make their bikes look good on bmxmuseum or something. The design should be pragmatic, but also cater to a new generation of riders. It doesn't have to be trendy to be functional, but it doesn't have to be a rehash of an old design to be functional either.

Also, find a flatlander who actually gets some decent exposure on a regular basis, and send him a frame. Do not give another frame to Paul Osika unless it's just a friendly gesture between bros because he's not doing your company any good on the marketing front by hiding away somewhere.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: EZChris on December 15, 2009, 01:35:31 AM
Have to agree with TJ there. Need to look forward and at your contemporarys for inspiration for a frame rather than looking back, I think.

I'd say simplistic design is the way forward. Please no funky tube buisness. Give the tubes a nice size, not so small like Paris V3, but not too big either - oversized tubes look horrible (See: Strowler).

And before the function over fashion crusaders jump on me for saying that: lets be honest here - if youre going to do a job, then do it properly. Theres absolutly no reason why a company cant make a functional, good looking frame these days.

TT Lengths - Really, please, 19.2, 19.3/4, somthing for the taller demographic and people who just plain like sensible sized frames.

Attention to detail: Alot of bmx frames these days have immaculate attention to detail - that new fly frame is a prime example of this. I'd LOVE to see a flat frame with that ammount of quality. Alot of frames in flat are let down by ugly removable lugs or gimmicks like built in chain tensioners. Which dont work.

In a saturated market you really need these details to make your product stand out. Functionality may not be (and oftan is tottaly discarded by some people) to sell the frame. (See: WTP Sinus) Details details details.

I mentioned the Sinus beacuse its a lesson to learn from. It was an AMAZING frame. Seriously. But due to the lack of it having a pro's name slapped on it, and marketing its details it never really sold well when in theory it should of flown of the shelfs.

Low TT is good, very good. But theres a fine line. I feel (And I think many others feel the same) that frames like the Mankind Alive are too low for some. I ride a St Martin Diamond and its probably the lowist id want it.

If you really do want to get back into flat, and help the scene - you do have to look at the contemporarys right now. Its all well and good saying "a remake of <random 80's frame> but lighter!" but thats really not pushing anything forward.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: cb256 on December 15, 2009, 02:36:30 AM
Just make this please...
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 15, 2009, 02:50:25 AM
Ok in all seriousness, I gotta agree w tj and Chris. Fwd thinking. It's funny cause I've seen flat through various stages - old, mid and now - sh*t frames (quality wise of the 80s) oversized and unecessarily heavy (though bombproof) and present days emeciated (sp?) frames w horror stories of cracking.  Each style had/has it's pros and cons. I can't say for certain it's time for another change, but it seems (to me) the weight weenie thing has been played out (again my opinion) Maybe it's all about making strong frames the lightest way possible (think efficiency vs saying I want a 3 lb frame)

I am impressed by today's overall machining and build quality (clean) so those are all must haves. Lower tt but not too low (and again me personally I would love a twin tt or platform but most don't need) w foot room clearance. My $.02
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: SNOOP on December 15, 2009, 03:08:49 AM
I think everyone's pretty much hit the nail on the head here...Keep it strictly functional, doesnt have to be of any crazy design. As to where i feel quality makes up for aesthetics just as much so as curvy attractive tube designs.

To add to whats been said, i just want to add that a tapered dropout..not the chunky capped ends of the stays found on most street/ street co oriented frames. Hell that way of going about tapering the stays would work..just the cutout angle and length would need to be a bit more severe of an angle. Foot/peg friendly. Also a bit lower standover height then the LTF/LAF, as these two statements are my only complaints of the S&M..Best bike ive owned to date other then that.

Kill'em with quality...Function before fashion...Severe weight loss, is a no go.

Edit: Also do some limited runs of your production model street/park frames somewhere in a 19.5/19.8 tt length just to tide the small guys and street guys who ride flat a hope in the market.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Scott O on December 15, 2009, 03:12:51 AM
Much needed USA Flatland Product.
As you all know I am Ares all the way but Flatland in the USA needs as many USA companies as possible.

Just not sure if Standard is serious or their heart is in it like it should be.

Wait and see!!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 15, 2009, 03:19:46 AM
I don't really think Rick needs our input,he's a Flat rider as well. He's been in this game as long as ANYBODY on here. Standard has never built a sub Quality or sub Functional Frame OR part. So ,all I'll add to this is,Keep up all the Great work you have been doin all this time and Crank out somemore FREESTYLE frames ,you build them,we will buy them.

BTW,Rick, YOU'RE THE FUKIN' MAN !!!!!!!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2009, 03:42:46 AM
i completely agree with tj and ezchris. they made some really good point and have 18.8/12.75 19.2/13.5 seems like good sizes to make. only thing is, it seems alot of people prefer frames with room, so maybe an all straight tube design like everyone hypes as well as a second with smaller triangle cross ht section?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Jason on December 15, 2009, 04:04:54 AM
Juggernaut speaks for me......I agree that there is nothing wrong with what Standard did with their products, they were building great equipment for the market that was there at the time.

On what TJ & Chris said, I think looking forward is important because the market has changed alot in just the last 5 years alone from my perspective.

We definitely don't need to teach Rick anything at all.....but opinions are important.  If your going to address the market that is available you defininitely need to know what the market is doing right now, because it might already be changing again.

I rocked an OX Tao, TJ...........for almost 5 years & loved it with no complaints!!  Til I built my Quamen.  If Standard comes out with another great frame I will definitely be riding it.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Pat on December 15, 2009, 04:50:09 AM
let me know when your quamen goes for sale   ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 15, 2009, 06:49:36 AM
I don't really think Rick needs our input,he's a Flat rider as well. He's been in this game as long as ANYBODY on here. Standard has never built a sub Quality or sub Functional Frame OR part. So ,all I'll add to this is,Keep up all the Great work you have been doin all this time and Crank out somemore FREESTYLE frames ,you build them,we will buy them.

BTW,Rick, YOU'RE THE FUKIN' MAN !!!!!!!

He's not a flat rider. He doesn't ride flatland like I do, or like most of us do. That's not taking anything away from him or his riding, but he just simply isn't doing the same things that we're doing to my knowledge. If he is than I'm wrong and I stand corrected, but I don't think that's the case.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 15, 2009, 07:17:49 AM
" SNOOP: Also a bit lower standover height then the LTF/LAF, as these two statements are my only complaints of the S&M..Best bike ive owned to date other then that"








Maybe look towards a Hitman frame.  Both are almost identical except for the hitman frame I am riding is about a 1/8" lower in the top tube section. If Rick could impliment this , and another 1/8" lower, it would be the perfect frame.  =)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: welfaresoldierbt on December 15, 2009, 04:18:49 PM

14mm. Less flex, better freecoaster performance.
Steal dropout design with built-in tensioners from Sunday! I've been riding the 2nd wave frame. They work perfectly.
Even those crappy Geisha lites work. Grind all day, forward rope all night.
Whenever there is a freecoaster debate, people insist they work better with a super tight chain, but there are very few frame options with good built-in tensioners, very few chain tensioners that work well with pegs and the super small dropouts of today's frames.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: seba on December 15, 2009, 06:18:44 PM
Mr. Rick  custom frames will be awesome! we need more pegs please! but a bit longer. :wacko: :beer:
(http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy190/amenaflatland/DSC01012.jpg)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: scottishflatagain on December 15, 2009, 06:49:44 PM
slightky of topic im buying a subrosa dtt frame for street but has a double toptube and 20tt ....just some 1 mentioned about a double tt earler in the post
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Rad255 on December 15, 2009, 10:11:20 PM
Rick, if you're reading this, completely disregard any and all requests of Tao's and Shamans. Please.

Don't remake that OX tao either. Do a straight no frills frame in two lengths, 18.8 and 19.2, 12.75-13.5 in the back or something along those lines. Keep the weight to a little under or around 4.5 lbs, and don't make the top tube too high. All straight tubes, and make sure the clearance is good in the back and under the downtube. Get flatlanders to test it. Get people who test it who you are confident will tell you whether or not it flat out sucks or not because if you don't have people like that, you won't know whether or not flatlanders will like it. That's kind of a no brainer, but it seems like most companies are not doing this so I figured I'd say something.

Flatland has changed A LOT since the 90's and most people do not want another Tao unless it's to make their bikes look good on bmxmuseum or something. The design should be pragmatic, but also cater to a new generation of riders. It doesn't have to be trendy to be functional, but it doesn't have to be a rehash of an old design to be functional either.

Also, find a flatlander who actually gets some decent exposure on a regular basis, and send him a frame. Do not give another frame to Paul Osika unless it's just a friendly gesture between bros because he's not doing your company any good on the marketing front by hiding away somewhere.

Basically.

+1
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Scott O on December 15, 2009, 10:30:03 PM
I don't really think Rick needs our input,he's a Flat rider as well. He's been in this game as long as ANYBODY on here. Standard has never built a sub Quality or sub Functional Frame OR part. So ,all I'll add to this is,Keep up all the Great work you have been doin all this time and Crank out somemore FREESTYLE frames ,you build them,we will buy them.

BTW,Rick, YOU'RE THE FUKIN' MAN !!!!!!!

He's not a flat rider. He doesn't ride flatland like I do, or like most of us do. That's not taking anything away from him or his riding, but he just simply isn't doing the same things that we're doing to my knowledge. If he is than I'm wrong and I stand corrected, but I don't think that's the case.
+1 TJ . With all due respect Rick needs input on "Now Flatland".
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 15, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
What the hell is "now flatland"?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 15, 2009, 10:57:30 PM
What the hell is "now flatland"?

If you can't distinguish between what people were doing between style cats and sevisual then I don't really think that anyone will be able to explain it to you. I'm not saying that to you exactly, but anyone who can't see a difference.

"Now flatland" is much more momentum based, much less based around scuffing and slower rolling tricks. A lot more spinning, a lot more pivoting and transitions based less on stopping on a dime. Things move much faster.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Scott O on December 15, 2009, 11:29:53 PM
What the hell is "now flatland"?
Sorry , but its basically what TJ said. There is a lot of differences in the actually riding and tricks that are being achieved since the last Standard Flatland frame was made.

Therefore if you want to be successful as a company you should create a product that riders will buy and not just something that says Standard bike company on it in hopes of people purchasing it.

The end result for any company needs to be sales or they will not have success.  Standard should make a frame the masses will enjoy. The masses do tricks that TJ eluded too.

That's what the hell I meant.  ;D

If they made a basic frame with nice angles and different tt options I don't think you could keep them on the shelfs. But they do need some "Now Influence".
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: jerr6 on December 15, 2009, 11:49:56 PM
they should make really light frames that break and cost alot. oh wait thats already been done
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 12:20:44 AM
The " now influence" makes more sense compared to a "now flatland" statement.


Thanks for clarifying that for me Scott. 


Hope all is well.


Tim
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Stereolab on December 16, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
(http://www.23mag.com/mags/go/go9009.jpg)

(http://www.23mag.com/mags/fs/fs8802.jpg)

(http://www.23mag.com/events/bercy/be4rms.jpg)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 12:42:36 AM
So basically everyone wants him to make this:

http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html (http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html)

but put a standard logo on it?

Redundant--Boring--not very creative. Yeah that's pretty now, heh. (J/K but only sorta).

Am I the only who thinks that he should make whatever the hell he wants?

If you want to support an American company that makes a no frills double diamond frame buy a sick child or a quamen. 

Why do we need more of the same?

And with that the hoards will be upon me in seconds. This is such a friendly place, with tolerance, and respected differences of opinion, and fluffy bunnies, and rainbows...
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 01:03:29 AM
" Brandon Fenton:So basically everyone wants him to make this: http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html (http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html) but put a standard logo on it?Redundant--Boring--not very creative. Yeah that's pretty now, heh. (J/K but only sorta). Am I the only who thinks that he should make whatever the hell he wants? If you want to support an American company that makes a no frills double diamond frame buy a sick child or a quamen.  Why do we need more of the same?And with that the hoards will be upon me in seconds. This is such a friendly place, with tolerance, and respected differences of opinion, and fluffy bunnies, and rainbows..."



Brandon,
Thank you for hitting the nail on the head.  (On not just one, but several topics)

So +1
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: cow on December 16, 2009, 01:30:30 AM
jeez guys.......we bash parts more than we buy.......a pro riding standard's parts is gonna get bashed the same way Mathias and Raphael is bashed........yes marketing wise its the best direction but what else is being put in place fro companies to want to invest heavily in every 6month innovative parts if riders themselves aren't doing much/if anything to keep flatland growing on a solid level....

enough of the POST-WARS.....lets sit down and try to do something real to help flatland grow instead of coming on here everyday trying to prove who's cranial cavity has less air and who has the hairy-er balls........lol

look around you kids flatland is almost dying........go ride/go plan

this is a global-flatland forum.......step outside for some "real air" and see what the rest of the world is up to........ :ph34r: ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Theory on December 16, 2009, 01:37:27 AM
And with that the hoards will be upon me in seconds. This is such a friendly place, with tolerance, and respected differences of opinion, and fluffy bunnies, and rainbows...

Don't forget about the butterflies Brandon!

I'm not exactly sure what frame style flatland needs right now since most style frames exist already. I don't think they "need" to make a specific style of frame (bent tubes vs. double triangle). I do agree that I think that SBC should take a good look at flatland in the state it is in currently and creatively design a frame based on what they see riders need and what they can offer beyond current available products.

Some things I've learned over the years:

- I really like when a frame has detailed technical features
- I for one won't buy a new frame below 19", they're aren't many options for 19"+
- Rear ends seem to mostly be to short these days
- 4.25lbs-4.5lbs feels like a good weight



Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 01:54:22 AM
So basically everyone wants him to make this:

[url]http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html[/url] ([url]http://www.stmartinbmx.com/diamond.html[/url])

but put a standard logo on it?

Redundant--Boring--not very creative. Yeah that's pretty now, heh. (J/K but only sorta).

Am I the only who thinks that he should make whatever the hell he wants?

If you want to support an American company that makes a no frills double diamond frame buy a sick child or a quamen. 

Why do we need more of the same?

And with that the hoards will be upon me in seconds. This is such a friendly place, with tolerance, and respected differences of opinion, and fluffy bunnies, and rainbows...


So basically what would be the point of creating anything different anyway? St Martin has the absolute worst quality in their parts and bikes that I've ever seen in my entire life. KHE doesn't hold a candle to how bad their frames are.

Other than that, you basically made the argument for not making any frames in the US at all. Great job I guess?

Yeah, there already is a suelo simple I suppose, but if it had the attention to detail and quality that a quamen had... well sh*t. That's a pretty winning combo in my book. Standard is known for good quality.. why WOULDN'T you advocate keeping it simple to them? Makes no sense.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Stubbleduck43 on December 16, 2009, 02:09:08 AM
I recently saw a Standard custom frame made for a fello rider with a Trickstar type gusset on another site.  I'm very interested in getting a frame made by them after seeing that frame. 
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 16, 2009, 02:22:41 AM
G man actually posted that Months ago,It's awesome!Uh,RickStar was the name ,but I read another name as well and someone posted it in this thread earlier.
 BTW, Brandon,I said virtually the samething!!  ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 02:30:08 AM
I agree with B to some degree, but when I'm window shopping on flatlandfuel with frames, it's kind of depressing to have to scroll down through all the options and rule out a good 2/3rds of what is on there because it's just utter sh*t quality. I just don't wouldn't have to do that with a standard frame.

edit: Okay I just went over to flatlandfuel to see if I was right about frames... I picked out FIVE frames on that site that I would consider buying if my height wasn't an issue and I didn't need a longer top tube.

FIVE.

Colony Deja Vu
Deep blitz
Quamen Bowls
Quamen cyphr
Zion Lowkee

That's it. Everything else is either a sh*tty design, or has such a poor reputation with quality control that I wouldn't touch it to save my life.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 02:36:25 AM
" 2FLAT2FURIOUS:I agree with B to some degree, but when I'm window shopping on flatlandfuel with frames, it's kind of depressing to have to scroll down through all the options and rule out a good 2/3rds of what is on there because it's just utter sh*t quality. I just don't wouldn't have to do that with a standard frame. "



ME TOO!, but if standard made something completly functional(that I never would have a doubt in my mind) and something along the lines of any of the colony frames, I would know in my mind that it would be money well spent, and would last the "test of time". 


You would have to agree with this TJ, correct?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 02:38:23 AM
Oh, I forgot to add, that you have not been the only one to get a st.martin frame 1/2 welded, and then welded like sh*t. 
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 02:40:57 AM
Oh, I forgot to add, that you have not been the only one to get a st.martin frame 1/2 welded, and then welded like sh*t. 

Oh I know. Iriez had a diamond I sold him break in a matter of months, only to get a new one and have it break in the exact same spot! Their cranks break, the sprockets strip out or snap. I would be afraid of those bars snapping. Their whole parts and frame line are just sh*t. That's five frames on flatlandfuel alone that I just would not consider getting with a god damn gun to my head.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 02:44:36 AM
Below is my "eifell" thread post.;





" NO-BODY:1 star for the time spent on making all frames on a friday afternoon , or Monday morning.  (That 1 star is just for showing up for work)"
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Scott O on December 16, 2009, 03:26:09 AM
There is a need for 19'+ frames. I told Terry that about his custom frame with Oddy. I would never ride something that big but I have always noticed the need for it.

Brandon oh Brandon. Ever thought of Politics?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 16, 2009, 03:32:50 AM
" Scott O:.Brandon oh Brandon. Ever thought of Politics?  :rolleyes:




Witch is one thing that has ALWAYS seperated SBC from the rest,even from a roster of riders all the years.  It would be like asking ;
Where does politics come into play where people slide all over floors?(Rolls eyes-lol)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: katobmx on December 16, 2009, 04:13:07 AM
19TT+13CS=perfect  -_- well i ride an 18.9,13 frame...but I want 19 to be trendy  ^_^
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 04:38:07 AM

Other than that, you basically made the argument for not making any frames in the US at all. Great job I guess?



I'm not sure how you get that out of my saying buy a sick child or a quamen if you want a no frills frame but I'm not gonna try to figure it out.

On a side note, I had no idea st. martin's quality was so crap. I guess if all the popular style frames are failing maybe that should tell us something. Either way, I've never heard any problems with the instrumental, bowls, or cypher. And those are American baby!

MacNeil just stopped making a no frills flat frame remember? As much as I wish SBC well in any new venture, maybe the market really can't support it as much as the hopeful would like to think. Just something to chew on.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 04:46:13 AM
There is a need for 19'+ frames. I told Terry that about his custom frame with Oddy. I would never ride something that big but I have always noticed the need for it.

Brandon oh Brandon. Ever thought of Politics?  :rolleyes:

I'm all for 19"+ tt frames (hell, I ride one). But I don't see the point in copying what is already there, know what I mean?

Politics? Why just because I disagree?  :huh:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Scott O on December 16, 2009, 04:50:18 AM
There is a need for 19'+ frames. I told Terry that about his custom frame with Oddy. I would never ride something that big but I have always noticed the need for it.

Brandon oh Brandon. Ever thought of Politics?  :rolleyes:

I'm all for 19"+ tt frames (hell, I ride one). But I don't see the point in copying what is already there, know what I mean?

Politics? Why just because I disagree?  :huh:
JJ  :beer:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: SNOOP on December 16, 2009, 05:04:12 AM
So they should stop making street/park/race frames because that design is taken and the market is already "flooded?" This logic is funny.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Jason on December 16, 2009, 05:27:18 AM
The quality of SBC is unmistakeable.......definitely ranks high on the charts.

THAT IS WHY THEY SHOULD MAKE A NEW FRAME FOR THE NEW MARKET
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 06:17:24 AM

I'm not sure how you get that out of my saying buy a sick child or a quamen if you want a no frills frame but I'm not gonna try to figure it out.

If you wanted a 19+ tt frame, the only option out of those were the bowls until recently when the 19 instrumental came out. Sorry, that's hardly any kind of selection for geometry.

Quote
MacNeil just stopped making a no frills flat frame remember? As much as I wish SBC well in any new venture, maybe the market really can't support it as much as the hopeful would like to think. Just something to chew on.

That macneil frame was not that nice. It wasn't a no frills flat frame. The rear end on that thing was constructed horribly. The taper on the seat and chainstays was like 45 degrees over a quarter of an inch. It would be incredibly painful to ride one of those because your foot would hit the damn stays so much it would bruise. That's just bad design in my opinion. Nevermind that it was essentially built bigger than most street frames are now.

I looked at that bike, and I immediately ruled it out because of that and other reasons. I didn't like that the same way I really didn't like the Div. I just thought they were not well thought out designs the same way a quamen or sick child is. Quamen's and sick childs have a certain maturity and understanding about what goes into a good FLATLAND bike that macneil and WTP just didn't really have in my opinion. I am worried standard might go down that same road if they don't employ the input of actual flatlanders and just go off what a street rider who rode flat years ago thinks a good flatland frame should be. This isn't geared at rick, it's just in general I don't get a sense that they're ready to reach out much is all.

The quality is there, the pragmatic design simply isn't.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: anthony on December 16, 2009, 06:50:09 AM
Standard Bikes = Pure bmx  :wacko:

Plase somethink like this Mrs Rick Moliterno please.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Jason on December 16, 2009, 07:11:29 AM
Nicely engraved.  Those welds look proper!!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Budz on December 16, 2009, 08:17:21 AM
whos bike is that up there with the Trick Star front end?! thats SiiiiCK! :beer:

Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 04:44:53 PM
So they should stop making street/park/race frames because that design is taken and the market is already "flooded?" This logic is funny.

No, no I never said to stop anything. I said Rick should do what he wants. I just see a lot of very similar frames already on the market and didn't really see the point in doing a another one but if standard's quality is really beyond what is available this alone warrants them doing it.

But I mean, when I go to Flatlandfuel I see all of these frame at around 19" or above with fairly similar double diamond designs:

-Slim fit
-Deja vu
-Mankind Alive
-Bowls
-Cypher
-LTF
-Diamond
-Class x-2
-MacNeil
-and several other around the 18.8" mark
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 05:18:37 PM


That macneil frame was not that nice. It wasn't a no frills flat frame. The rear end on that thing was constructed horribly. The taper on the seat and chainstays was like 45 degrees over a quarter of an inch. It would be incredibly painful to ride one of those because your foot would hit the damn stays so much it would bruise. That's just bad design in my opinion. Nevermind that it was essentially built bigger than most street frames are now.

I looked at that bike, and I immediately ruled it out because of that and other reasons. I didn't like that the same way I really didn't like the Div. I just thought they were not well thought out designs the same way a quamen or sick child is. Quamen's and sick childs have a certain maturity and understanding about what goes into a good FLATLAND bike that macneil and WTP just didn't really have in my opinion. I am worried standard might go down that same road if they don't employ the input of actual flatlanders and just go off what a street rider who rode flat years ago thinks a good flatland frame should be. This isn't geared at rick, it's just in general I don't get a sense that they're ready to reach out much is all.

The quality is there, the pragmatic design simply isn't.

I'm starting to get a better picture of what you're talking about now. Quamen certainly set what ought to be the standard in flat frames with SS & CS caps that are flush with the dropouts--by now this should be common sense. And thinking about the practical and functional should be paramount. Odds are no matter what he decides to do it just won't please everybody so I don't think that attempting to cater entirely to modern trends and tastes is necessarily the recipe for success. I will say that there are certain design benefits of some more recent builds though. Hopefully, if he goes through with it he will recognize what those are.

I for one would love to see a frame with a platform option but I know this will never happen unless some modern shredder decides to put one on for 'retro style' and learns some crazy new trick that uses it, then they would come back over night. There are so many multiple decade style variations left to be done that could benefit from it and they are so much fun it could really take flat in a different direction but unfortunately, even with the recent rollaid variation battles, no one has gone for multiples and thus no one would see or take advantage of having a platform. Things come and go in cycles it seems in flat--who that lived through the Baco era would have ever thought tight pants, hi-tops, and two piece bars would be the norm again? Maybe platforms are on the horizon.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Moliterno on December 16, 2009, 06:26:25 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: SNOOP on December 16, 2009, 06:33:07 PM
So they should stop making street/park/race frames because that design is taken and the market is already "flooded?" This logic is funny.

No, no I never said to stop anything. I said Rick should do what he wants. I just see a lot of very similar frames already on the market and didn't really see the point in doing a another one but if standard's quality is really beyond what is available this alone warrants them doing it.

But I mean, when I go to Flatlandfuel I see all of these frame at around 19" or above with fairly similar double diamond designs:

-Slim Fit wouldnt own
-Deja vu ned to find out more about..
-Mankind Alive a little to low at the tt but managable
-Bowls
-Cypher
-LTF owned one
-Diamond no rearend
-Class x-2  only in 18.1
-MacNeil
-and several other around the 18.8" mark
^^Fixed..As you can see theres much room for improvement. The cypher being the only one id definately not mind riding.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Red43j on December 16, 2009, 06:58:15 PM
whos bike is that up there with the Trick Star front end?! thats SiiiiCK! :beer:



A guy in the UK by the name of Danny Harris. He has it built up and it looks awesome. Candy red with white parts. Looks like a trick star and a STA put together.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Red43j on December 16, 2009, 07:03:42 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: wookie on December 16, 2009, 07:30:07 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick

Thanks Rick!  That is the attitude Standard has embodied from day one.  Can't wait.

Brian Rybak
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 07:55:24 PM
I'm starting to get a better picture of what you're talking about now. Quamen certainly set what ought to be the standard in flat frames with SS & CS caps that are flush with the dropouts--by now this should be common sense. And thinking about the practical and functional should be paramount. Odds are no matter what he decides to do it just won't please everybody so I don't think that attempting to cater entirely to modern trends and tastes is necessarily the recipe for success. I will say that there are certain design benefits of some more recent builds though. Hopefully, if he goes through with it he will recognize what those are.

I totally agree with you here. It's always the little details that I think companies overlook and that's what kills a frame for me. I don't think he can please everyone, but I think that there is a factual standard of quality that the company is capable of, and people really do see that.

I mean, if someone is going to buy a bad thing frame, they really aren't looking at anything else. It's obvious those things break all the time, and that they're also ridden by all the other cool kids... so you're not going to sell a dude who wants THAT particular frame on a standard or quamen or whatever else is out there that might not blow. 

Quote
I for one would love to see a frame with a platform option but I know this will never happen unless some modern shredder decides to put one on for 'retro style' and learns some crazy new trick that uses it, then they would come back over night. There are so many multiple decade style variations left to be done that could benefit from it and they are so much fun it could really take flat in a different direction but unfortunately, even with the recent rollaid variation battles, no one has gone for multiples and thus no one would see or take advantage of having a platform. Things come and go in cycles it seems in flat--who that lived through the Baco era would have ever thought tight pants, hi-tops, and two piece bars would be the norm again? Maybe platforms are on the horizon.

Baco didn't really have tight pants though..? I don't think you'll ever see a frame with a decade platform simply because of the added weight. I would never ever run one even if I was doing nothing but decade variations though, I had one on my first frame and I felt that it actually got in the way of my foot for some reason.

Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: wookie on December 16, 2009, 07:59:17 PM
TJ, if you did a lot of decades you definitely WOULD see the merit of a platform.  What was that first frame and what did the platform get in the way of?

Brian
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: B-random Fantom on December 16, 2009, 08:19:32 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick

Hi Rick,

Just curious, what is the average cost of a custom build?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 08:22:43 PM
TJ, if you did a lot of decades you definitely WOULD see the merit of a platform.  What was that first frame and what did the platform get in the way of?

Brian

The first frame was a Dyno zone. I kept hitting my foot when trying to grab the frame for tailwhips. It actually made me stop riding flat and start trying ramps the first year I had a bmx bike just because the frame felt so cumbersome and akward. It wasn't until I got a hoffman george a year or so later that I saw how nice it was not to have it there. I learned decades and double decades on an S&M sabbath with no platform. I didn't see a benefit when I did them on bikes WITH a platform either.

Granted I couldn't do a decade today with a gun to my head because it's been so long but... eh. it is what it is.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: dug on December 16, 2009, 08:36:12 PM
I'm sure Standard will put out a high quality product.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Evil_Lincoln on December 16, 2009, 08:42:30 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick

Here it is guys, your chance to make something awesome happen.  Those of you with the knowledge, experience and skill need to join together, get your ideas flowing and send Rick something killer.  No more B.S. guys, let those who know do the talking here and hopefully we can all benefit from it someday soon!  It's not often you get a chance like this, make it count.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Red43j on December 16, 2009, 08:42:45 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick

Hi Rick,

Just curious, what is the average cost of a custom build?


Brandon-
try hitting him at his email:
rpm063@earthlink.net
-hope that helps! -Josh
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: wookie on December 16, 2009, 08:45:08 PM
Dyno zones weren't good for much. lol.  But seriously, multiple decades and variations are soo much better with a platform.  That being said I think it should remain a custom option or be limited production for a new Standard flat frame.  The old Shorty platform wasn't so good.  Too long and the extra tubes sat a little lower than the toptube, they all need to be level.

Brian
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 16, 2009, 08:58:52 PM
Dyno zones weren't good for much. lol.  But seriously, multiple decades and variations are soo much better with a platform.  That being said I think it should remain a custom option or be limited production for a new Standard flat frame.  The old Shorty platform wasn't so good.  Too long and the extra tubes sat a little lower than the toptube, they all need to be level.

Brian

Would removable mounts be possible somehow?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: katobmx on December 16, 2009, 10:03:40 PM
I think a frame that has this framehttp://www.sundaybikes.com/v3/complete-bikes/funday-pro/ (http://www.sundaybikes.com/v3/complete-bikes/funday-pro/) TT height with 19TT, 13 CS would make a greak frame. wish bone CS junction.Could we stray away from the euroBB (I dont trust it :huh:) spanish BB would be nice. I'd like to see another company incorparate a higher than normal BB like the ABT frames.basically a street strength flat frame.theres no reason why thats not a posibility. thats all I got  -_-
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: wookie on December 16, 2009, 11:17:12 PM
I don't like euro bb's either.  Mid is ok but a bit heavy.  I think the spanish is best for flat.  Small and light yet durable.

Integrated tensioners would be a nice touch.
Longer smooth caps on the chainstays and seatstays too.

Brian
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: h2otowntony on December 17, 2009, 01:34:31 AM

Integrated tensioners would be a nice touch.
Longer smooth caps on the chainstays and seatstays too.

Brian

+1

lardyard combos sucked for that reason alone on my OX tao.
I did like the rear end length on that frame tho for back wheel tricks vs. my Sick Child Metro, which is too short.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 17, 2009, 02:03:12 AM
" h2otowntony:Quote from: wookie on Yesterday at 11:17:12 PMIntegrated tensioners would be a nice touch.Longer smooth caps on the chainstays and seatstays too.Brian+1lardyard combos sucked for that reason alone on my OX tao.I did like the rear end length on that frame tho for back wheel tricks vs. my Sick Child Metro, which is too short."



Exactly!

I have had the damdest time getting a consistant stubbleduck on my hitman frame, so hopefully Rick will take all this into consideration. 

=)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Hatebreeder on December 17, 2009, 03:28:58 AM
Im sure alot of you guys have seen this...but for those of you who didnt.......
http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php?showtopic=27039578 (http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php?showtopic=27039578)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Pat on December 17, 2009, 04:39:50 AM
i like euro... i dont see the problem with it its not like your bashing the bottom of your frame repeatedly against concrete... whats gonna break on it? (im in no way expirienced so dont take me the wrong way here :P)

and also, i think 12.6-13.25 would be a good cs length, most guys run around 13.0 i believe...

and personally, im a little sick of straightube frames and something like the sick child metro would be cool. and if you do go straight tube, have the dt welded higher like on the cyphr or instrumental.

also, i like shorter headtubes, but dont really have a reason why :P
74.5ht 71st seem like good all around round angles tooo
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: jazzman on December 17, 2009, 05:14:11 AM
Thank you to everyone for your input so far. Let me address one thing to be clear: I am only interested in building a frame that is top notch and for the current form of flat. The older influenced, retro style stuff but modernized can stay in my custom program. I can make the frame any geometry any rider wants. What I need from you guys is what the key points are. Maximum tire size, max sprocket size, stand over height, head tube length, how much clearance for the stays, brakes/ no brakes options, details baby! I only have interest in building the best. I have always believed as a rider, that to build the best I need to listen to those that ride a given model then use excellent materials and build process with quality control. I will listen to all and build a proto for you guys to scrutinize. Let's keep the dialogue open. Feel free to contact me directly as well.
Rick
:beer:

as far as sprocket size, I think being able to have an 18t sprocket should be the smallest. (not sure about the biggest!) Be able to run at least a 1.85 in the rear would be nice.  Removable brake mounts are nice! A Spanish BB would be nice as well... just my .02$
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 17, 2009, 05:15:23 AM
Yeah a decent removeable mounts system is a MUST. Removable gyro tabs too. I had to take a hacksaw to mine and it looks like sh*t, but if they are there they kill my knees all the time.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TGK on December 17, 2009, 05:53:31 AM
" 2FLAT2FURIOUS:Yeah a decent removeable mounts system is a MUST. Removable gyro tabs too. I had to take a hacksaw to mine and it looks like sh*t, but if they are there they kill my knees all the time. "




I always used to rip the bottom of my pants/jeans legs.(Every dam pair)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Amahl Abdul-Khaliq on December 17, 2009, 07:45:55 AM
- 28 tooth max, 15 tooth min.
- 1.95 tires and smaller.
- Spanish bottom bracket.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Pat on December 17, 2009, 07:52:40 AM
why does min. size matter? why not make it so you could just run as small as you want.... i have 13/9 on my kgb and i wish i had a little more chain clearance...
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: EZChris on December 17, 2009, 12:12:27 PM
why does min. size matter? why not make it so you could just run as small as you want.... i have 13/9 on my kgb and i wish i had a little more chain clearance...


Beacuse that means the chainstays have to be 90 degrees to the center of the BB. Thus lowering the bottom bracket some and effecting how the bike rides quite a bit.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bhuffman on December 17, 2009, 02:44:26 PM
Lots of good ideas in here and I agree with almost all of them. The biggest problem I've had with frames over the last few years is the cs - just too short. 13+ would be nice. Slightly lowered top too is good, but there are a lot of frames that have it too low and it actually makes a lot of tricks harder plus it just feels uncomfortable. Need some clearance between the front tire and downtube. I think everything has been covered. I'd say stick to a 71 or 72 ST angle. How about some cool colors? I know thats pretty minor but we covered everything else.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Furball on December 17, 2009, 07:11:35 PM
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4970/71397946.jpg)


Rick, here are some suggestions:


1. Small Batches

Short frames, long frames, frames with brake mounts, frames without brake mounts, frames with removable gyro tabs, cable guides, and brake mounts, etc. (the old supply and demand thingy).


2. Seat Tube

No externally-machined seat tube (they tend to crack; see photos below). Use a fluted seat tube instead. And no built-in seatpost clamp either (you don't want that if you're doing decades).

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1953/seattube.jpg)
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1062/seattube2.jpg)

(before anyone asks, yes, those are Sick Child frames)


3. Dropouts

5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Either weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts (St. Martin "Eiffel", "Diamond", and "Gaia"), or make sure they're flush with the dropouts (Ares "Garuda"). No capped seat and chainstays.

St. Martin "Eiffel" dropouts
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2443/eiffeldropouts.jpg)

Ares "Garuda" dropouts
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2382/garudadropouts.jpg)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/906/garudadropouts2.jpg)


(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6927/68572109.jpg)
 ;D :P

4. Bottom Bracket

No Euro BB. Small bearings do not handle loads well. Especially side loads. And Mid BB is overkill for flatland. If you're riding Flatland, Spanish BB is the way to go. Post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell (I hate ovalized BB shells!). 11.5" height.


5. Tubing

Rustproof coating inside and outside prior to painting/powdercoating.
Diameter: TT (double-butted) / DT 1.25" (single-butted), SS / CS 3/4".


6. Seat and Chainstay Bridges

No plates. Use crosstubes instead of plates to reinforce the rear triangle. The plates tend to crack on most frames.


7. Head Tube

4-3/8" rise (this allows for a low TT), 74.5° HA, integrated head tube (Campagnolo-style) with removable gyro tabs for the dudes with brakes, and no gyro tabs for the brakeless riders.


8. Tire and Sprocket Sizes

Max. tire size: 1.85" (the inflated width of a 1.85" Odsy Frequency G is about 1.9"), max. sprocket size: 25T (the age of pizza and dinner plates is over). Make sure people can use micro drive gearing.

Here's Luis Elias' Instrumental with a 15/9 gearing (15-tooth sprocket/9-tooth driver).
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5044/microdrivegearing1.jpg)


9. Weight

Somewhere in the neighborhood between 4.25lbs-4.5lbs.


10. Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Flatism® on December 17, 2009, 07:41:50 PM
Oh the bottom bracket dilemma... :wacko:
Just my 2p worth...
Imo, I would genrally  prefer Euro BB, but with the 2x single larger width bearings ftw?? (Big improvement on the 4x narrow bearings version of old.)
It is rubbish having to banging bearings spanish/Mid in/out of a BB shell!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 17, 2009, 08:24:10 PM
([url]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4970/71397946.jpg[/url])


Rick, here are some suggestions:


1. Small Batches

Short frames, long frames, frames with brake mounts, frames without brake mounts, frames with removable gyro tabs, cable guides, and brake mounts, etc. (the old supply and demand thingy).


2. Seat Tube

No externally machined seat tube (they tend to crack; see photos below). Use a fluted seat tube instead. And no built-in seatpost clamp either (you don't want that if you're doing decades).

([url]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1953/seattube.jpg[/url])
([url]http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1062/seattube2.jpg[/url])

(before anyone asks, yes, those are Sick Child frames)


3. Dropouts

5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Either weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts (St Martin "Eiffel", "Diamond", and "Gaia"), or make sure they're flush with the dropouts (Ares "Garuda"). No capped seat and chainstays.

St Martin "Eiffel" dropouts
([url]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2443/eiffeldropouts.jpg[/url])

Ares "Garuda" dropouts
([url]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2382/garudadropouts.jpg[/url])
([url]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/906/garudadropouts2.jpg[/url])


([url]http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6927/68572109.jpg[/url])
 ;D :P

4. Bottom Bracket

No Euro BB. Small bearings do not handle loads well. Especially side loads. And Mid BB is overkill for flatland. If you're riding Flatland, Spanish BB is the way to go. Post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell (I hate ovalized BB shells!). 11.5" height.


5. Tubing

Rustproof coating inside and outside prior to painting/powdercoating.
Diameter: TT (double-butted) / DT 1.25" (single-butted), SS / CS 3/4".


6. Seat and Chainstay Bridges

No plates. Use crosstubes instead of plates to reinforce the rear triangle. The plates tend to crack on most frames.


7. Head Tube

4-3/8" rise (this allows for a low TT), 74.5° HA, integrated head tube (Campagnolo-style) with removable gyro tabs for the dudes with brakes, and no gyro tabs for the brakeless riders.


8. Tire and Sprocket Sizes

Max. tire size: 1.85" (the inflated width of a 1.85" Odsy Frequency G is about 1.9"), max. sprocket size: 25T (the age of pizza and dinner plates is over). Make sure people can use micro drive gearing.

Here's Luis Elias' Instrumental with a 15/9 gearing (15-tooth sprocket/9-tooth driver).
([url]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5044/microdrivegearing1.jpg[/url])


9. Weight

Somewhere in the neighborhood between 4.25lbs-4.5lbs.


10. Thanks for reading!
Uhhh,Ditto. I'd say that about covers it.The whole Externally machined tube thing is old news,Multiple Butted tubing is the way to go,NO sharp edges to crack at.Unless it's a slow taper.
 Thanks Furball, on point as usual. ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Furball on December 17, 2009, 08:35:29 PM
Oh the bottom bracket dilemma... :wacko:
Just my 2p worth...
Imo, I would genrally  prefer Euro BB, but with the 2x single larger width bearings ftw?? (Big improvement on the 4x narrow bearings version of old.)
It is rubbish having to banging bearings spanish/Mid in/out of a BB shell!

That's why I suggested the post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell. ;)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 19, 2009, 01:14:23 AM
Fur that little breakdown is pretty much perfect. Your point about the rear dropouts should be in a memo addressed to EVERY company thinking about making a flatland frame.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Pat on December 19, 2009, 08:55:24 AM
maybe now martti's new forest riders have something to base their frame off  ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on December 20, 2009, 07:05:58 AM
maybe now martti's new forest riders have something to base their frame off  ;D
Im glad trend whores have more Taiwan shiit to look forward to.  :rolleyes:



This thread is about a real company that builds bikes, not a fake company that has the lowest bidder build their frames.
Flatland needs S.B.C. and more real builders to wash out the sub par shiit.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Im glad trend whores have more Taiwan shiit to look forward to.  :rolleyes:

What metric are you using to judge a welders ability in Taiwan vs that of a welder in America? If I add up all the frames I've owned in the past and stacked up which were made in taiwan vs which were made in the US, I would say that I've had better luck with the bikes that were made in taiwan than I have with anything made in the US.

You're basing your opinion on stereotypes. Just because someone has something made in Taiwan doesn't mean that it's going to suck. They're not third world over there by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 07:39:21 AM
It's the Chinese frames that Suck!The American Frames just are too pricey for most ,that's all.
and heres an American Cat.................
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
I can tell you right now with full confidence that in a few years time Chinese bike builders will be able to compete on par with American bike companies. You don't grow your economy 8% a year and pump that much money into training a work force that can grow infrastructure at the rate they do without training some serious welding talent. You might laugh at that now, but they're catching up fast. This isn't some great leap forward backyard smelting yards, these guys are the real deal.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 07:51:14 AM
That should really PUMP our economy huh? Since we outsource so much.Yup,we're DOOMED!
Japan is already on par with most of our products,if not all of them or Better.Thier prices reflect it.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 07:56:13 AM
That should really PUMP our economy huh? Since we outsource so much.Yup,we're DOOMED!
Japan is already on par with most of our products,if not all of them or Better.Thier prices reflect it.

Well, no. Not really. Welding isn't some artform where the secrets are held by master sages cloaked in red white and blue burlap sacks. It's a craft, just like many things people do around the world and it can be taught and people can be trained. The only issue is quality control and the Chinese are stepping up their game. They just have a MUCH larger labor pool and blue collar work isn't shunned like it is in the US. There are always shortages of welders in the US. People want American welders, but nobody wants to be one.

We're kind of digressing here, but outsourcing has very little to do with what I'm talking about. They're just offering to do the same thing that we do here at a cheaper price the same way two stores in one small American town might have a price war over a single commodity. It's just the free market at work.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 08:03:50 AM
Gotcha....I am an American Welder an Proud of what I do. Pays bills,feeds us,houses us,and lets me buy parts! But I do see your point,as Pride goes,I lived in So. FL. there is ALOT of Hate for Haitians, Because they will do the jobs that noone wants ,but they all say"They're takin our jobs"
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 08:11:19 AM
Gotcha....I am an American Welder an Proud of what I do. Pays bills,feeds us,houses us,and lets me buy parts! But I do see your point,as Pride goes,I lived in So. FL. there is ALOT of Hate for Haitians, Because they will do the jobs that noone wants ,but they all say"They're takin our jobs"

Well, they aren't taking anyone's jobs. They're offering to do it at a lower price, and to the person paying it makes more sense to go with the lower bidder.

Americans complaining about that are just lazy and unless they can offer something to make their increased pay worth while it doesn't really matter what they say about who is taking what job, they aren't doing their part to undercut the competition and they'll suffer for it.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 08:15:52 AM
Gotcha....I am an American Welder an Proud of what I do. Pays bills,feeds us,houses us,and lets me buy parts! But I do see your point,as Pride goes,I lived in So. FL. there is ALOT of Hate for Haitians, Because they will do the jobs that noone wants ,but they all say"They're takin our jobs"

Well, they aren't taking anyone's jobs. They're offering to do it at a lower price, and to the person paying it makes more sense to go with the lower bidder.

Americans complaining about that are just lazy and unless they can offer something to make their increased pay worth while it doesn't really matter what they say about who is taking what job, they aren't doing their part to undercut the competition and they'll suffer for it.
I agree,Exactly what I was sayin'.I also told them the same thing when I heard it.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 08:18:56 AM
It's a shame it has to come to that, but that's how it's always worked.

To get back on topic, I hope that in the future Rick continues to pull ideas from newer generations of riders. I have a great deal of faith in Standard that they can put together an absolutely incredible flatland frame, but only if they're committed to making something that can't just be replicated down the road.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on December 20, 2009, 08:19:07 AM
2FLAT

I think you quoted away my message. I've had 2 Taiwan frames that I bought in the last 2 years. The welds are impecable, and solid designs. (I question the material that is welded though) Where I work , my place of employment had a Chinese company build an injection  mold for us and it came back perfect, so the owner gave the company  10 more to build and all ten failed inspection. They were all built out of mild steel instead of p20.
I honestly can't say that these frames are 100%chromoly.

I trust S.B.C. and I think they will stand behind their product and not just create a mess of customer problems, which is a prob these days.

My frame was built by the LOWEST BIDDER.

Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 08:24:28 AM
just thought I'd throw this in.........
http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007 (http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 08:37:10 AM
just thought I'd throw this in.........
[url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url] ([url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url])


See there is an additional variable to consider when looking at KGB.

Would the parts have lasted longer under better manufacturing conditions or were the designs themselves to blame for the failed parts?

I think it's the design personally. Manufacturing defects only account for a small amount of part failures across the board, and when other companies are using similar builds (my we the people sinus for example lasted a hell of a long time for being made in taiwan while most KGBs...well...didn't). I think their designs were not very well thought out all the time and that lead to a considerable amount of their parts breaking.

I think that if you're going to blame someone there blame the company and not the guys welding.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 08:39:20 AM
I agree! Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: byke on December 20, 2009, 08:55:34 AM
just thought I'd throw this in.........
[url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url] ([url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url])


See there is an additional variable to consider when looking at KGB.

Would the parts have lasted longer under better manufacturing conditions or were the designs themselves to blame for the failed parts?

I think it's the design personally. Manufacturing defects only account for a small amount of part failures across the board, and when other companies are using similar builds (my we the people sinus for example lasted a hell of a long time for being made in taiwan while most KGBs...well...didn't). I think their designs were not very well thought out all the time and that lead to a considerable amount of their parts breaking.

I think that if you're going to blame someone there blame the company and not the guys welding.



I agree allot with this ....

you also need to add one more thing to the equation and that is communication from afar in different languages can also add to the problem.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on December 20, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
just thought I'd throw this in.........
[url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url] ([url]http://www.fatbmx.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9007[/url])


See there is an additional variable to consider when looking at KGB.

Would the parts have lasted longer under better manufacturing conditions or were the designs themselves to blame for the failed parts?

I think it's the design personally. Manufacturing defects only account for a small amount of part failures across the board, and when other companies are using similar builds (my we the people sinus for example lasted a hell of a long time for being made in taiwan while most KGBs...well...didn't). I think their designs were not very well thought out all the time and that lead to a considerable amount of their parts breaking.

I think that if you're going to blame someone there blame the company and not the guys welding.



I agree allot with this ....

you also need to add one more thing to the equation and that is communication from afar in different languages can also add to the problem.
Leave it to Sweden to crash the party
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: JUGGARNAUT on December 20, 2009, 09:22:14 AM
;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 20, 2009, 08:51:49 PM
Dear Furry - and others -

I'm in the process of trying to come up w a design for a custom. Few questions - why no capped seat/chainstays? Does anyone have a pic of a fluted seat tube? Very educational thread..

([url]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4970/71397946.jpg[/url])


Rick, here are some suggestions:


1. Small Batches

Short frames, long frames, frames with brake mounts, frames without brake mounts, frames with removable gyro tabs, cable guides, and brake mounts, etc. (the old supply and demand thingy).


2. Seat Tube

No externally machined seat tube (they tend to crack; see photos below). Use a fluted seat tube instead. And no built-in seatpost clamp either (you don't want that if you're doing decades).

([url]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1953/seattube.jpg[/url])
([url]http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1062/seattube2.jpg[/url])

(before anyone asks, yes, those are Sick Child frames)


3. Dropouts

5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Either weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts (St Martin "Eiffel", "Diamond", and "Gaia"), or make sure they're flush with the dropouts (Ares "Garuda"). No capped seat and chainstays.

St Martin "Eiffel" dropouts
([url]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2443/eiffeldropouts.jpg[/url])

Ares "Garuda" dropouts
([url]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2382/garudadropouts.jpg[/url])
([url]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/906/garudadropouts2.jpg[/url])


([url]http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6927/68572109.jpg[/url])
 ;D :P

4. Bottom Bracket

No Euro BB. Small bearings do not handle loads well. Especially side loads. And Mid BB is overkill for flatland. If you're riding Flatland, Spanish BB is the way to go. Post-weld bearing seat machining on the bottom bracket shell (I hate ovalized BB shells!). 11.5" height.


5. Tubing

Rustproof coating inside and outside prior to painting/powdercoating.
Diameter: TT (double-butted) / DT 1.25" (single-butted), SS / CS 3/4".


6. Seat and Chainstay Bridges

No plates. Use crosstubes instead of plates to reinforce the rear triangle. The plates tend to crack on most frames.


7. Head Tube

4-3/8" rise (this allows for a low TT), 74.5° HA, integrated head tube (Campagnolo-style) with removable gyro tabs for the dudes with brakes, and no gyro tabs for the brakeless riders.


8. Tire and Sprocket Sizes

Max. tire size: 1.85" (the inflated width of a 1.85" Odsy Frequency G is about 1.9"), max. sprocket size: 25T (the age of pizza and dinner plates is over). Make sure people can use micro drive gearing.

Here's Luis Elias' Instrumental with a 15/9 gearing (15-tooth sprocket/9-tooth driver).
([url]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5044/microdrivegearing1.jpg[/url])


9. Weight

Somewhere in the neighborhood between 4.25lbs-4.5lbs.


10. Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 20, 2009, 08:59:40 PM
Dear Furry - and others -

I'm in the process of trying to come up w a design for a custom. Few questions - why no capped seat/chainstays? Does anyone have a pic of a fluted seat tube? Very educational thread..



They get in the way for pivots and they absolutely kill your feet. My quamens are capped, but they're at an angle so that there is no way they're going to be in the way.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 21, 2009, 01:36:27 AM
Thx TJ! The first thing I thought when I ready Furby's (love ya dude) post about capped cs/ss's was my Quamen..Are you rocking the Delta4? or Cyphr? or? I'm not near the level of having to worry about pivoting (until I start doing stubbleducks or the such) but really good to know..Thanks man!

R. //

Dear Furry - and others -

I'm in the process of trying to come up w a design for a custom. Few questions - why no capped seat/chainstays? Does anyone have a pic of a fluted seat tube? Very educational thread..



They get in the way for pivots and they absolutely kill your feet. My quamens are capped, but they're at an angle so that there is no way they're going to be in the way.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Furball on December 21, 2009, 02:50:07 AM
Does anyone have a pic of a fluted seat tube?

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7912/flutedtubing.jpg)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 21, 2009, 02:53:53 AM
Hey do you happen to have a pic of the outside of it? Or is it just fluted on the inside? Trying to figure what it looks like on the outside. Thanks furball!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: froghammer on December 21, 2009, 05:33:19 AM
Hey do you happen to have a pic of the outside of it? Or is it just fluted on the inside? Trying to figure what it looks like on the outside. Thanks furball!

Inside. Outside looks like a regular tube.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: tod miller on December 21, 2009, 05:52:30 AM
Hey do you happen to have a pic of the outside of it? Or is it just fluted on the inside? Trying to figure what it looks like on the outside. Thanks furball!

Inside. Outside looks like a regular tube.

They made fluted seat posts BITD too.  Do they still make them?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Furball on December 21, 2009, 09:21:15 AM
Hey do you happen to have a pic of the outside of it? Or is it just fluted on the inside? Trying to figure what it looks like on the outside. Thanks furball!

Inside only. The inside of the tubing is shaped more like a star, so there are beams to support for example the fork legs. This method actually removes material from the tube to make it lighter, but the beams actually make it stronger. In other words, fluted tubing is a great way to shed some weight without sacrificing strength.

P.S. You're welcome! ;)


They made fluted seat posts BITD too.  Do they still make them?

I don't think so. I remember those, but they were fluted on the outside, tho.

(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8872/22611231.jpg)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: The Brown Sound on December 21, 2009, 09:55:09 AM
Kick ass guys. I do remember those fluted posts from bitd now =) good stuff
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Budz on December 21, 2009, 10:19:04 PM
this thread is not goin on unnoticed.
Rick has been watching and gettin some good ideas from u all.
keep the thoughts, ideas, and opinions pumping! :mellow:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Stereolab on December 21, 2009, 11:08:58 PM
this thread is not goin on unnoticed.
Rick has been watching and gettin some good ideas from u all.
keep the thoughts, ideas, and opinions pumping! :mellow:


I hope he won't be upset with me that I'm posting this picture of his new prototype.  I think they are on the right track here.



(http://bmxmuseum.com/image/dscf2077_lg.jpg)

The double chain stays are for pivots, and the fork pegs make whoppers easier.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 21, 2009, 11:18:57 PM
You know inevitably someone will get on here talking about how "rad" that bike was and still is or that they remember cruising down some beach somewhere with a mullet all SEND ME AN ANGEL or some sh*t, and then like 2 posts later they will demand that I take them seriously.

Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: tod miller on December 21, 2009, 11:20:13 PM
That MCS Styler ^^^ was the most awful bike...EVER.

Edit:  I just read TJ's post.   NO TJ, we all knew it was an awful bike then too.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: ancientskool on December 22, 2009, 12:37:15 AM
Most of the bikes with the WAY oversized platforms and useless standing areas didn't last long because most everyone realized that wasn't the way to go.

After maybe 1987, nobody was coming out with junk like that because it wasn't selling, because it wasn't practical.  Most every bike with platforms either had a tasteful double top tube or a smallish GT/Hutch seattube platform.  Those bikes are the ones that normally people talk about liking back in the day.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: pulsar on December 22, 2009, 02:39:37 AM
wow your lawn is in rough shape ;D
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: wookie on December 28, 2009, 07:56:29 AM
Most of the bikes with the WAY oversized platforms and useless standing areas didn't last long because most everyone realized that wasn't the way to go.

After maybe 1987, nobody was coming out with junk like that because it wasn't selling, because it wasn't practical.  Most every bike with platforms either had a tasteful double top tube or a smallish GT/Hutch seattube platform.  Those bikes are the ones that normally people talk about liking back in the day.

I agree that the double tt was the most tasteful of the platforms.  LOL.  That being said I dont think that is the direction Standard would go.  Sure Rick broke TONS of Haros with double tt's before Standard.
Brian
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 09:57:19 AM
i do hope you lot get all these ideas down to a few so something can be built
what a perfect opportunity to get what you want built or just go to sbc and have your own idea custom built.
ive had a few customs built to my own kinda spec and love the concept.
i built this old 1997 yesterday..
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/harris15570/100_6431.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/harris15570/100_6424.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/harris15570/100_6425.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/harris15570/100_6420.jpg)
the perfect time to get what ever you want built..sbc forever.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: out~riding on December 28, 2009, 12:05:22 PM
Sweet build! Your missing brake pads in the rear..
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 12:11:50 PM
the pads are attached look at the top of the slot ,you can just see the 10mm nut.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: K.Wong on December 28, 2009, 08:06:23 PM
yeah, great build...those jad cranks are sweet - always wanted one but the prices being asked for them=insane. the jad arms look long, what length? 180s or 175s? or is it the camera angle?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 08:30:45 PM
they are 180s ,i know of a short set but cant get my hands on them yet.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: K.Wong on December 28, 2009, 08:43:51 PM
when you say short - how short? i didn't know that jad made arms shorter then 175...the jad stuff was mostly for bicycle motocross, mtbs and time trials - their freestyle bmx products weren't too popular due to the prices and design.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 08:46:23 PM
they did a junior set around 145 ,short run i believe with the plate on the back and not the holes.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: K.Wong on December 28, 2009, 09:06:23 PM
thanks...good to know. do u mind if i ask what's the market price on a nos jad cranks? its the version with the holey back plate. 180mm, red
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 09:13:12 PM
not sure but wouldnt let mine go for under £150
had this set a few years now.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: K.Wong on December 28, 2009, 09:18:06 PM
right, thanks - a local bike shop has a set for sale, but it's 180mm and they are asking $400 for their jad.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: byke on December 28, 2009, 09:21:36 PM
not sure but wouldnt let mine go for under £150
had this set a few years now.

Dan,
If you can weazle them Hoffman first gen forks off Dave Paul .... I will send you a box of standard goodies which I am sure you would be happy with ;)
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: bmxrestoration on December 28, 2009, 09:28:21 PM
mark
leave it with me.. 
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: das-owal on December 28, 2009, 10:56:05 PM
I love the Idea of an flatlandframe with SBC quality and never understood why they stoped building flatland parts! So thanks for THIS possibility!

All tubes dubble butted. head, seattube and bottom bracked machined from the inside. Rustproof coating inside, outside just clear with coloured pigments or powder coating.
A Standart logo machined on the headtube.

Dropouts:
5mm thick with 3/8" slots & 14mm cutting lines. Weld the seat and chainstays on the inside of the dropouts, or flush with the dropouts. No capped seat and chainstays. Build in chain tensioner so they don't come between peg and frame.

Chainstays:
12.8-13" Tires max 1.95

Gear:
15/8-25/11

Top and down tube:
Should be out the way. Bend tubes are better then crossed for strenght.
Diverent length like  18, 18.5, 19, 19.5?
Removeble pivots, gyrotabs and cablehangers for 2 cables.

Headtube:
Low so no more problems with to short forkshafts. 74.8-75°

Seattube around 73°

Weight between 1.6-2 kg

It seams that a lot of people hate european companys and blame them for weak parts...
Did anyone of you guys want to ride a frame over 2 kg or a bike with is over 15 kg?
I don't think so. 
As I knew those european companys were some of the first companys that try to build ligther parts and hell year some of them are sh*t but some of them just make the way for better products that are ligther.
And jes we are all test riders cause we'r not in the MTB industry!
Just think about the coasts to produce a new part! After a few jears other companys can build simmilar parts and also have the knowlede witch comes from riders using parts from the companys that have these ideas first...
Thats normaly the point why most parts look the same (pivotal saddles etc.)!
And by the way Paul Osika did triks most of the new flatland rider still trying, with heavy as f*ck bikes back in the days... Respect for riders like him and companys as SBC because they ar the backbone of our sport!
But without those inovative companys we all still ride heavy bikes!
I can't say that I borke less part with my heavy bike few jears ago but I can say that I'm don't want to ride a heavy bike ever again! As I don't wana street style straigth tube bike again!
As I can see today riders buy parts because of trends as theyr riding follows trend...
Inovative parts and inovative riding! Haters drink Haterade!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: TJ Perry on December 28, 2009, 11:33:15 PM
I agree with the above but I'd really like the chainstays to be at least 13.25. Anything smaller is just cramped and uncomfortable.

I also do not think paul should be given a single part as long as he stays underground and out of sight. There are too many good riders deserving of help for a company to be flowing things to someone who won't even make a public appearance out of fear of someone else "stealing" his tricks. He can do what he wants, but I don't think he should be rewarded for shunning the rest of the sport.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: moose on December 29, 2009, 12:02:57 AM
I agree with the above but I'd really like the chainstays to be at least 13.25. Anything smaller is just cramped and uncomfortable.

I also do not think paul should be given a single part as long as he stays underground and out of sight. There are too many good riders deserving of help for a company to be flowing things to someone who won't even make a public appearance out of fear of someone else "stealing" his tricks. He can do what he wants, but I don't think he should be rewarded for shunning the rest of the sport.
+1   i'd like the rear end to be 13.5 slammed and no shorty drop outs
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: SNOOP on December 29, 2009, 12:50:31 AM
If it werent for the super tiny dropouts... Adjustabillity from 12.75 to 13.5 etc would be of no factor. Loved my OG KGB Psychopower for its abillity to basicly be stretched from short 13 to almost 14...
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on December 30, 2009, 05:34:14 AM
Chainstays:
12.8-13" Tires max 1.95

Top and down tube:
Should be out the way. Bend tubes are better then crossed for strenght.

Seattube around 73°

Weight between 1.6-2 kg= 3.5-4.1


No offence, but I really hope this isn't part of the end result. It reads like a St.Martin spec. sheet.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on March 06, 2010, 03:02:59 PM
Any updates on this???
Rick chime in man,, keep us updated!
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: janorki on March 13, 2010, 04:28:37 AM
Rick - If you read this... just make a modern bike w/ all the suggestions here.  Make sure you put that little brace tube by the headset to repruh-sent the old trick stars. You will call this model the 'Rick Star', and it will come in limited edition colors(to match the Hutch flavors). You will use the old hutch-style lettering.Then all of us old timers will take a 2nd (3rd?) mortgage on the house to collect each one  ;D

I'm sure you will flow me the 1st pink one, since it was my idea and all :ph34r:.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on March 13, 2010, 04:33:41 AM
Rick - If you read this... just make a modern bike w/ all the suggestions here.  Make sure you put that little brace tube by the headset to repruh-sent the old trick stars. You will call this model the 'Rick Star', and it will come in limited edition colors(to match the Hutch flavors). You will use the old hutch-style lettering.Then all of us old timers will take a 2nd (3rd?) mortgage on the house to collect each one  ;D

I'm sure you will flow me the 1st pink one, since it was my idea and all :ph34r:.
Wow!

TROLL,,,, I called it LOL
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: janorki on March 13, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
awwww man...OK, I probably deserve that, but you gotta admit the 'Rick Star' is kinda catchy.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on March 13, 2010, 04:38:07 AM
Rick rep'ed that frame as well as any other Hutch Pro rider

T "Rick" Star is cool as as as as Ice :ph34r:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: janorki on March 13, 2010, 04:45:20 AM
Rick rep'ed that frame as well as any other Hutch Pro rider

T "Rick" Star is cool as as as as Ice :ph34r:

That's what I'm sayin'. Of course candy apple red should be the first color released. Gotta educate the kiddies on the '87 style.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Stubbleduck43 on March 13, 2010, 08:55:17 AM
Rick rep'ed that frame as well as any other Hutch Pro rider

T "Rick" Star is cool as as as as Ice :ph34r:

 :beer:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on May 08, 2010, 09:05:57 AM
Until this is put to rest, I will keep bumping
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: metalbmxer on May 09, 2010, 12:25:33 AM
Yeah this ridiculous! Haha But really what's going on with this?
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: metalbmxer on May 09, 2010, 12:56:37 AM
But really I have always liked the strong pierced TT on the rear. This is coming from someone who has cracked a couple rear junctions. Combine this with stress relieving gussets on the front triangle and you've got a legendary frame. 
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: Vic Román on May 09, 2010, 01:10:55 AM
Rick, if you're reading this, completely disregard any and all requests of Tao's and Shamans. Please.

Don't remake that OX tao either. Do a straight no frills frame in two lengths, 18.8 and 19.2, 12.75-13.5 in the back or something along those lines. Keep the weight to a little under or around 4.5 lbs, and don't make the top tube too high. All straight tubes, and make sure the clearance is good in the back and under the downtube. Get flatlanders to test it. Get people who test it who you are confident will tell you whether or not it flat out sucks or not because if you don't have people like that, you won't know whether or not flatlanders will like it. That's kind of a no brainer, but it seems like most companies are not doing this so I figured I'd say something.

Flatland has changed A LOT since the 90's and most people do not want another Tao unless it's to make their bikes look good on bmxmuseum or something. The design should be pragmatic, but also cater to a new generation of riders. It doesn't have to be trendy to be functional, but it doesn't have to be a rehash of an old design to be functional either.

Also, find a flatlander who actually gets some decent exposure on a regular basis, and send him a frame. Do not give another frame to Paul Osika unless it's just a friendly gesture between bros because he's not doing your company any good on the marketing front by hiding away somewhere.

LOL ,in other words build the frame that TJ wants and let him test it out.At least he will be honest with the verdict. :mellow:
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: g-man on May 09, 2010, 01:44:13 AM
Rick should. The experts and masters and intermediates are where its at in my eyes. These are the guys buying the parts and dealing with the issues.

Pros are pros and they get the flo's, but the rest of the classes pay out their asses
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: manteo on May 10, 2010, 04:25:25 PM
That would be some killer news if they get back in.
Title: Re: Standard Bykes back in the flat game?!?.....
Post by: davepaterson on May 11, 2010, 01:19:36 AM
Is this there new flatland frame? http://www.standardbyke.com/blog/?p=3566 (http://www.standardbyke.com/blog/?p=3566)