Global-flat.com Board
English => How-To => Topic started by: brian84corvette on August 17, 2009, 05:43:31 AM
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parts needed:
a tioga 1" threaded headset
3 rings of verry small ball bearing headset bearings
a regular un sealed headset size 1 1/8" ( the kind that has caged bearings that can come loose from top and bottom race ya know ? a headset with sealed bearings is not going to work.
we want the lower and upper races from them mostly. I doubt the ball bearings from it will
work with the crazy headset we are building as the ball bearings are probly too large.
here is a pic of me gathering parts. note- do not use any aluminum parts for a race. they wear out
with in minutes of riding. I had tried using aluminum races for integrated headsets, and they worked out in thery, and fit nicely going together - but the ball bearings cut deep grooves in the soft aluminum and did not work out at all.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0056_edited-1.jpg)
use the 1" cups in the frame.
use the 1 1/8" race on the fork.
take all of the little bearings out of the 3 rings of them.
apply tons of greese to the headset cups in the frame.
then fill the headset cups up with ball bearings like this.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0057_edited-1.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0051_edited-1.jpg)
in that pic there is a green arrow pointing to a small spot where a last bearing could possibly fit in there, but it would leave NO room at all for the bearings to freely roll with out mashing eachother,
this is the amount of space you want in there. any more will lead to failure, any less will lead to bearings wearing out way too fast.
so once your bottom cup is all full of bearings like that,
slide the fork in.
and do the same to the top cup.
then slide the rest of the 1 1/8" headset parts in
and your shims for the headtube and your stem.
tighten it up so that it spins freely sort of
but has no slack or wobble in it.
ride it around for a day or so,
and re ajust it
my guess is it will come loose a little as every thing gets seated in properly. - or at least it did on mine.
but once it all finds its groove nicely - I havent had to ajust my headset at all in a long time. its good to go.
edit -
o good, I found a picture showing the bottom race I used -
and my pair of tioga cups, and the 3 rings of bearings I used.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0051_edited-1-2.jpg)
I found this fsa orbit headset top race to work out awesome also.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0053-2.jpg)
starting to slide the fork in.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0059_edited-1.jpg)
picture of me removing the ball bearings from the cages.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0061_edited-1.jpg)
here is a picture of me doing the top ball bearings in there.
its a pain in the ass - so find a spoke or some other pointy tool to use
to help pack the bearings in there
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0062_edited-1.jpg)
notice on the above pic ^ that was the aluminum top headset stuff I was trying to use
as a top race. it worked for about an hour before getting all tore up by the bearings.
and there you have it. plenty of info on how to do it.
here is the 1987 gt performer I put tanaka forks on with a suelo stem and sick child bars.
it rode awesome and is apart right now for getting a dope neon green or pink paint job.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/brian84corvette/random%20crap/PICT0058_edited-1.jpg)
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This how to totally friggin rocks......I really need this tut when I had a sugarbaby frame a few years ago. I might have to dig out the old GT PFT tour out and mod it...........
Much thanks Brian!!! :beer: :beer:
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back in the day - id say 96 or 97 ish there was a headset called a "mix breed"
that was designed to do this. 1" cups for the frame but using a 1 1/8" fork.
it was avalable back in the days I guess, but has been out of production for some time now due to such a crazy low demand for them.
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This is a very cool how-to Brian, thanks for taking the time to do it and share.
Mods, should this go in the "how-to" board? Would be nice so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.
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Brian,
How does that OG performer ride with zero forks? I'm pretty sure those old performers had like 72-73 HA.
Just wondering how mixed school bikes ride? and do you prefer them to modern setups?
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Brian,
How does that OG performer ride with zero forks? I'm pretty sure those old performers had like 72-73 HA.
Just wondering how mixed school bikes ride? and do you prefer them to modern setups?
I asked this same question in the post he made about his bikes.
http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=28718.msg251794#msg251794 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=28718.msg251794#msg251794)
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hey mid west side -
I am not super crazy tall, but if I stand strait up im 6 ft.
I basicly dont like bikes with less than 13.25 for the rear triangle measurment
and thats realley impossible to find in todays flatland frames.
when I kick / scuff the rear tire my leg constantly bashes in to the back of the seat of a bike with a short rear triangle. even 13.0 feels short for me.
so to combat this issue I have, I used to run my seat post mini lay back style
so that the seat is facing fowards to give me more room out back to kick on the tire
with out hurting my legs.
but
now that im learning more things, I need front room also.
so the mini lay back style of seatpost does not suit my riding now.
nore is it conducive to tricks like hang 5 or cliffhanger for me.
this pic is showing me in cliffhanger on a 1985 skyway street beat frame.
(http://www.global-flat.com/photos/albums/userpics/11509/normal_fl4.JPG)
the rear end of this bike is sweet with the platform. its hard to tell from the pic,
but when in cliffhanger with this frame I can sit down a bit on the rear seat stays
and its a nice comfy spot to be in, vs new frames with short rear triangles = a tire going up your ass crack - not exactly the best feeling in the world especialy when falling on this trick.
since this frame is 18.5 top tube it should feel short right ? not so tho
because the rear triangle is 14.25 slamed. so the over all wheel base of the bike
is still large. there is plenty of rear room on this bike, enough so that
I could actually run a mini lay back seat post if I find one in 22.2mm with micro ajust gutts.
here are a fiew more riding pix with that bike.
(http://www.global-flat.com/photos/albums/userpics/11509/normal_fl1.JPG)
(http://www.global-flat.com/photos/albums/userpics/11509/normal_fl8.JPG)
(http://www.global-flat.com/photos/albums/userpics/11509/normal_fl12.JPG)
I did not take any good pix riding that 87 performer yet, but its nice.
I managed to pick one with a some what steep head tube angle. I got lucky I guess.
but
I find it impossible to ride with offset forks now that I have gotten so used to 0 offset.
im a 0 offset guy for life now. so to me any bike with it feels better.
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Just traded an old crappy schwinn road bike for an 86-87 green/chrome Haro master!!!!!
Thinking of doing a mixed school bike with the help of your Headset conversion thread.
Also, I think you are dead on about longer wheelbases. I just added a couple half links to my chain to put the backwheel about as far is it can go on my Strowler.
Very stable in squeakers and my bike didn't get squirrely after trying to coast a backward hang 5 from squeakers.
I also finally decided that I am a full offset guy. I've tried to get adjusted to a minimal offset on and off for a few years. It always disappoints me, and I go back to full and it just feels easier and more relaxed.
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I'm giving you big points for digging out these older frames and riding them. The guy on the Tubo is thinking, "WTF is that frame, man?!" It just goes to show you, everybody is different and sometimes you need to conjure up sh!t to make things work your way. This is a good post.
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I nominate this thread to be stuck somewhere permanent. I know I'm going to need it sooner or later.
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HELL YES! Brian, you've saved the day again!
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This is great! I might do some experimenting with my old Mongoose Hoop D when I get extra cash, time, and patience just to see how it works. Very useful. Too bad I found this after I found some threaded parts for my Mongoose. When something breaks on it, I will know what to do. :mellow:
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im gonna keep bumping this until it gets moved to how-to section.........
It's already in the works. ;)
Edit
Ta-dah! ;D
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grate pics good info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mellow:
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wow, brian, I couldn't have said it that well myself!I cannot ride the smaller wheelbased frames as well, even if I use mostly modern components,the idea of such a cramped bike is beyond me,I suppose size does matter here, even if Im only six feet tall(not exactly the chris young,trevor meyer size),awesome riding pics!love the q bars!I have been using the mixed school approach since when mid school was new school,lol, and it works!right now Im using a tao though,so I dont need many mods,but I rode morales's frames with the aheadset mod for years!
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Anybody wanna build one of these for me and tell me how much it is shipped to 10016? i really want one of these headsets to use on my old school bike but i never had any luck with it.
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Hey, I have an idea,
to use sealed ACB bearings to do this.
I am going to get some custom cups turned out of stainless-
that fit these bearings:-
http://www.enduroforkseals.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.enduroforkseals.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pinarello_max_500b.jpg&target=tlx_new (http://www.enduroforkseals.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.enduroforkseals.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pinarello_max_500b.jpg&target=tlx_new)
The cups will go on the outside of the headtube.
Thanks for original idea!
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Just letting everyone know (as cool as this original thread is) is that AHeadSet (Cane Creek) has modified their 1" and 1 1/8" headsets so that they all use interchangeable parts. They also now sell a conversion headset but it's hard to find. Or you can buy two of their relatively cheap headsets ($24 MSRP) one in 1" and 1 1/8" and interchange to get your 1 1/8" steerer into an old 1" frame.
Pretty neat. Here is the link to the diagram of parts. Some of the supply houses carry all of their individual parts but it's probably easiest to just buy two in my opinion:
http://www.aheadset.com/ (http://www.aheadset.com/)
And here is the link to their configuration page that shows the adapter head set. It makes a lot of sense to me.. :)
http://www.aheadset.com/downloads/AHEADSET_CONFIG_CHART_PRINT.pdf (http://www.aheadset.com/downloads/AHEADSET_CONFIG_CHART_PRINT.pdf)
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Nice man ty! I imagine I will prolly do this.
I still like my idea of putting the cups outside the ht,
coz then i can use sealed bearings.
The problem is every set of forks needs to have the step in the steerer turned off,
unless I can find acb bearings with 1 3/16 inner race.
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I just ordered one of the Cane creek 1 1/8" and two 1" cups for $33 including shipping.
Fingers crossed. :beer:
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How'd this go Old Yeller?
Thinking I will try and get 1 1/8 Kore forks on my Morales.
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Complete failure on the cane creek. The cups were the small ten speed size and the cups were too big to go through a gyro.
I ended up having a set of heavy duty cups machined to fit a 1" headtube.
See my bike here: http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=53524.0 (http://www.global-flat.com/smf/index.php?topic=53524.0)
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Thanks for the info.
hmm-not sure what to do,
but it seems it will involve some machining.
My local guys just got a lathe-so, cool
Really want these forks on there,
so it will be loose ball at worst.
edit- so I think now I will machine the races out to 1 1/8,
and use 1"cups. Looking at the parts I think it will work.
Need some really tough races if I can find them.
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/1z31gep.jpg)
hey, thank you very much, just chucked a set of threadless forks and a stem to get it working, FLAWLESS!!
used the cups that where original on the frame, top + bottom crown from the forks, and 3 lots of bearings from these and another similer, just did a hop down a 4 set of stairs, not even a wobble!
now time to get some decent forks + stem and ill be away
thought I'd add, the bearings are loose, the frame is a Raleigh Ultra Burner MK2 and the forks and stem where off some junker BMX for £8 but with a mix match of headset parts, it is super cool (wish id done this soon instead of snapping my Quill stem ¬_¬ )
big respect!
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Thanks for the info brian (http://www.ballbearingcorp.com/), just looking for this :)
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Heyas 8D,
nice to be back at this forum, just got inspired to get back into my builds and riding.
I have now got 1 1/8 forks on my (newly black :) ) Morales,
which has a 1" headtube.
I can take some pics soon if anyone wants to see.
So I found some cups with thin enough walls on the bit that jams into the frame,
to let the 1 1/8 Kore forks through.
I also found some bearings, which remain in cages, that fit these.
I had the 1" bottom race bored out and re-annealed to fit the forks.
The top race is also bored out of a 1" top nut.
So that's all. It spins killer,
but time will see if it has enough strength.
So I didn't modify the forks or frame,
which I am happy about.
I will post pics of my 4 bikes including this mod in the next couple of weeks in rides.
Cheers, enjoy the rolling