Global-flat.com Board
English => General Flatland Forum => Topic started by: Mr News Bot on January 17, 2007, 01:54:00 PM
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Andy Zeiss is organizing the Circle of Balance 3 in Tokio, Japan. Since there were already a lot of discussions about this COB we decided to ask Andy a few questions.
Q: Please introduce yourself. Name, Age, Location ..
Andy Zeiss, 32 year old, meat eating, alcohol drinking, ball headed, unshaved, tattooed but non-smoking dude from Cologne in Germany.
Q: People were wondering why top riders like Justin Miller or Matthias Dandois are not invited to the COB. How have the riders been choosen ? Why have you choosen exactly those 18 riders ?
Yeah I can imagine that people are discussing this issue quite hard - hahaha! There are tons of statements and pages on this case in the global flat forum. I dont know why people... Click here to read the whole interview
(http://www.global-flat.com/upload/media/2007-01-17-13-45-41news_cob_interview.jpg)
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Oh yes, we are all so different.. :P
I think Andy is a great guy, but his statement and explanation did not make me feel so satisfied.
There is no justice in the flatland world, because there will not be a single flatland contest where everybody will be satisfied either with the invited riders list or the final placings. Or am I wrong?
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First of all, I want to give Andy props for developing a contest series that has such a great vibe.
In my opinion it is arguably the best contest in flatland today. One of the main reasons I feel that way is that it is invitation only.
Invitation only is the way to go for the future of the sport. As it keeps the group small and more importantly. The "best" riders are invited.
Kind of a "finals" like the old days, based on your points collected during the year.
By winning a spot in the contest it is a testament to a riders dedication, skill, and talent level.
I may not agree with leaving Justin out, but it wasn't my choice. If I could do better, then I'd start my own contest series... But, that ain't happening.
I did have an idea though.
For next year, the COB group could pick the first 15 riders, and then let the public pick the final three selections.
Then we wouldn't have anything to complain about...
Well, I'm sure we could come up with something else :wacko:
gm
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andy is a nice chap and if one of you runs him times over that away, he will notice in addition makes it... he a good job for us more bmxer :beer:
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if they wanted ppl with "character" why is jeff d not riding again?and justin should get sponcered by red bull.
other then that who is everyone putting there money on......martti?
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ugh...that was the weakest explanation I've ever heard. And the machine reference is pretty much a straight dig at Justin. It's one thing to say you respect someone and another to prove it. All he is proving is that he lied and in fact doesn't respect him.
"But I also know that freedom is also to see it from another angle." --Andy
Me -- then why not listen to the people of the 'sport' o' dictator of fortunes?
I'm not saying the list isn't good, but there are a couple of names missing from the list. It's just so frustrating to see someone who works so hard (Justin) and loves riding so much (and not only to win either), get screwed over because of flatland politics; and everyone knows that is all that this is about. It's really quite shameful.
Here's a prediction to show you what I mean. Matt Wilhelm (arguably another american killer machine) will be knocked out in the early rounds regardless of having flawless runs and less than flawless competition. This will happen as it has in the past because he is just being used as window dressing and not fairly assessed because (insert your preferred bias here).
And don't just start blindly hating on me for being critical; maybe there are positives for 'the sport' by holding such a contest but that doesn't mean that the B.S. should be ignored. The Truth is the Truth.
"Flatland is going to win!!! It´s for the sport and to credit it!!!" -Andy
Me--No 'flatland' lost a little something more today but I'm sure you'll collect your paycheck at the end of the comp regardless.
p.s. global-flat isn't a "public back-door" it's an open community of flatlanders. and if you think that you know so much about the flatland 'lifestyle' then maybe you'd be keen to recognize this place. Maybe it's not about "not having the balls" to contact you, but you not having the 'balls' to respond to the people in an open forum where your biases can be called out publicly. Maybe you are a nice guy, and maybe you aren't doing this for the paycheck, but for a lot of people that won't change that fact that you selected against several top riders with 'no good' reason.
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yup..apparantly Justin is not the epitome "expression of character, state of mind, personalitiy, creativity, hart, soul, edgyness, dedication, uniqueness, freedom, freestyle, etc. right?"
yeah Justin isnt edgy dedicated unique or cant freestyle...and doesnt undestand freedom. EXpresson of charactor perhaps means circling other riders while taunting them during their run..while they arent doing that to you..
I realy dont like that oh so informative explanation. He shouldnt have said anything at all..or maybe the explanation was lost in the translation.
but the question mark after all those listed words explains a good bit to!
"I am confidentaly 100% right...right?"
Then he cant even understand why people were discussing it?
He might be nice but hes coming off like an idiot....he better act like its a serious issue instead of just some limited group of online people that isnt even worthy of an explanation..
he needs Tony Snow.
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"But in the end of the day he rides couple of years now but still need to learn much more on the lifestyle of flatland and needs to earn more credit. He was there to fast where is he is now."
Does he have to wash the bullsh*t out of his mouth ten times a day? What f*cking flatland "lifestyle" is he referring to?
The last time I checked flatland lifestyle was a really poor impoverished one where the majority of riders are barely getting by in their day to day lives riding full time and progressing at the expensive of their own personal financial success. If anything he should have invited the poorest f*cking riders on the face of the planet and had them battle for the cash because they need it a lot more than a bunch of guys who "rep the sport" at every contest doing the same things over and over.
What a crock of sh*t.
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ugh...that was the weakest explanation I've ever heard.
Props to Andy for the things he has undoubtedly done for Flatland, but I couldn't agree more with what you just said Brandon.
Andy says :-
It´s one thing being a contest mashine, "training" all day long with the only aim to win comps, but that´s not what flatland is all about. You have to feel it, live it, suck it up, etc.
I'd suggest that if you're riding* all day long (every day) then you have no choice but to 'feel', 'live' and 'suck up' flatland and there's nothing wrong with wanting to compete either, which is what I feel is implied by this contest machine jibe. Hell, you could argue Martti showed a lot of 'gamemanship' when he battled Justin
at Flatring in order to secure victory, yet he gets an invite to COB '07
*I notice Andy uses the word "training", training or not if you're out on your bike all day, then by definition you're riding! Hmmmm... Flatland politics... :rolleyes:
Si.
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...""training" all day long with the only aim to win comps, but that´s not what flatland is all about"
flatland isnt..but the damned contest is...I dont get it.
I mean you dont need to organize a contest to watch a guy trying a trick 300 times then getting close.. Or to even express what flatland is... Seams Bobby is doing more WORLDWIDE (shameless) to capture anyhow...its the very same reason we ID riders as non contest types that DO hold down video parts very well.
I mean a Dane Beardsley reps what flatland is more than anyone to some degree...but I understand him not being invited to circle of balance...a Jody Temple...i get. its just how can you claim battle format then toss our Justin when their battle probably has been the most memorable in recent years.
He needs to to "splain" this in better detail. He didnt "fix" that PR.
and Chris its in Japan..I dont think Jeff D's allowed back in the country..lol.
It semas his explanation has nothing to do with riding skill....period.
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Another thing I don't get, is if you're being invited to one of the biggest contests in the world, why WOULDN'T you "train" for it? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and obviously this guy has never ridden flatland in his life let alone competed.
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Another thing I don't get, is if you're being invited to one of the biggest contests in the world, why WOULDN'T you "train" for it?
Indeed, talk about self-contradiction!
Si.
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where is the point when it stops being about fun,life,ect and starts being training?
good point about jeff,jeff i forgot about that.
that excuss is pretty weak though. and who really cares how long someone has been riding?how can they keep someone out of a contest because of that?if the guy is killing it, he's killing it right?there is about 5 ppl that will be doing the exact same links they did at the last red bull but thats cool cuz they paid there dues.
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There is an easy answer.... anybody who ever wins a flatland contest should be banned from ever entering another.... they are obviously training far too much and do not represent the true spirit of flatland.
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I think what he is trying to say is that we need more modern day Fred Bloods.
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Here's a prediction to show you what I mean. Matt Wilhelm (arguably another american killer machine) will be knocked out in the early rounds regardless of having flawless runs and less than flawless competition. This will happen as it has in the past because he is just being used as window dressing and not fairly assessed because (insert your preferred bias here).
Didn't he get 4th at the last COB and 3rd at KOG in October???
I'll take that bet.
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It's not even true contest anymore...
It's a big flatland show!
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Matt, I think Brandon was saying that you will be "positioned" in your first bracket with the hardest competition to try and eliminate you right away...
Make sure you don't practice too much... jk
It is obvious that it is not about skill, but about politics and "proving" to the world that flatland has passed the US by...
I agree with Scott, it does sound like a show.
but, all of flatland will be watching.
(even old guys like me, that are living in the past...
and hoping for a successful future for flat).
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where is the point when it stops being about fun,life,ect and starts being training?
good point about jeff,jeff i forgot about that.
What happend?
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where is the point when it stops being about fun,life,ect and starts being training?
good point about jeff,jeff i forgot about that.
What happend?
read the interview and the reasons given why Justin wasnt invited...try that.
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Here's a prediction to show you what I mean. Matt Wilhelm (arguably another american killer machine) will be knocked out in the early rounds regardless of having flawless runs and less than flawless competition. This will happen as it has in the past because he is just being used as window dressing and not fairly assessed because (insert your preferred bias here).
Didn't he get 4th at the last COB and 3rd at KOG in October???
I'll take that bet.
Yoopss!!
Someone called me on my knowledge of history! KOG doesn't count cause it's not the same organizer. No seriously, congrats on your past placings...You're more than window dressing to me my friend. I was mostly thinking about the first COB that you went too cause I thought you got robbed in that one. Or maybe it was the second one...how many have their been? I'd love to see you take it/best wishes.
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That explanation made me pretty mad. Total dig at Justin. How much you want to bet there were other pros that influenced this guy's decision not to pick Justin?
If you're having a competition with the best basketball players in the world, you should't leave Michael Jordan out. If you're having a competition with the best flatlanders in the world, you should't leave Justin Miller out.
Other riders that were left out arguably did not deserve inclusion. There's no argument about Justin. He should have been on the list.
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
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remember... besides for the sake of flatland's progression and growth, there's Red Bull that needs to sell their products as well. so for their marketing policy they decide to invite riders that's more like show-riders instead of those who really ride for self expression or whatever you call it.
so yeah, at the end of the day, it's all about sell outs, marketing, promotions of certain products and... MONEY!!!
face it, we're (flatland) too weak to stand up on our own feet, our so-called sport doesn't sell as good as our brother street rider... so we need other's hands to help us but in return.. there's always price to pay, right?
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
While Justin may be one of the best contest riders in the world, I wouldn't rank him in the top ten best riders. There is a difference in my opnion. (No offense Justin, I think you rip it up) Apparently this contest is a showcase of riders. If it is invite only, they have to have a criteria they are looking for so let them choose who they want. I realize it's a big event and a lot of money but we aren't making the rules. If it is a problem to you, boycott the event and subsequent video. Get the word out in print or on the net.
Good luck to all the riders.
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
While Justin may be one of the best contest riders in the world, I wouldn't rank him in the top ten best riders.
I am very curious to see your worlds best top ten riders list.
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would anyone on here disagree with not putting justin in the top 10 in the world im just wondering.i would put him in mine for sure.i cant think of a trick he cant do.
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'You have to feel it, live it, suck it up, etc. Then you feel the lifestyle - lets face it, flatland is about expression of character, state of mind, personalitiy, creativity, hart, soul, edgyness, dedication, uniqueness, freedom, freestyle, etc. right?'
I wonder how does he measure it? I doubt that eg. Justin Miller, Adam Kun, Simon O'Brien, Matthias Dandois, Waldemar Fatkin or Bram Verhallen 'feel it, live it, suck it up, etc' less than the selected 18.
'Those 18 riders we have selected earned that respect over decades and are still able to be top notch - this is why we credit them with COB.'
What about Keelan Philips? So saying that reason for leaving Matthias out is :
'...he rides couple of years now but still need to learn much more on the lifestyle of flatland and needs to earn more credit. He was there to fast where is he is now.'
It's a very dumb excuse. I'd like to know what else does he need to learn about flatland?
'The riders, the sport and it lifestyle should be in the right spot and it should be promoted the right way so people can see what flatland is and how great it is.'
To show 'what flatland is' could be done much better by giving a chance to young up and coming riders because I think this is what flatland is about these days...
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
While Justin may be one of the best contest riders in the world, I wouldn't rank him in the top ten best riders.
I am very curious to see your worlds best top ten riders list.
It would be a bunch of old heads that have proven themselves throughout the years to be versatile in all types of flat. The kind of guys who have done or can do pretty much everything. It's just MY opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
People like Jones, Gouin, DeGroot, Steingrabber, Meyer, etc...
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remember... besides for the sake of flatland's progression and growth, there's Red Bull that needs to sell their products as well. so for their marketing policy they decide to invite riders that's more like show-riders instead of those who really ride for self expression or whatever you call it.
so yeah, at the end of the day, it's all about sell outs, marketing, promotions of certain products and... MONEY!!!
face it, we're (flatland) too weak to stand up on our own feet, our so-called sport doesn't sell as good as our brother street rider... so we need other's hands to help us but in return.. there's always price to pay, right?
They have every right to make any decision they want, people in my opinion have the right to make any stupid decision they'd like to. Its a BASIC freedom. I just dont buy their explanation is all. Like show riders? Pumping fist's, pinky squeaks slick hair and no footed wheelies? jokes aside ..... Trevor is one of the hardest working SHOW riders in the industry....and its not like Trevors exploding with energy between tricks. Do you mean flashy just in general? How can the most difficult links in flatland not be enough? Lets get Justin a shiny silver shirt he can wear or something...convince him to snake other riders..talk **** and entertain as with the MC Hammer side shuffle dance....if you got bombs you got bombs...
You have MC Freshco struggling, that wasnt flashy...then you have Hammer..proper!
So I guess Justin strictly unda unda....the best contest rider in the world is not enough...wow...Ive always liked the idea of battle format...thought it was good and was needed hell back during the ESPN debacle based on aspects SIMILAR to B-Boying and DJ battles. The one ellement I hated about it was the hooplah and energy given towards fronting...I thought tricks and links would be plenty after the public figures out its not as simple to the eye as backflipping some huge gap....This just leads us away from exactly what flatland is if you think about it..reliance on something that IS NOT a search for the technical...which Justin is...this bugs me. Battle formats fine...but if we arent basing it on riding then we arent really bridging an uneducated crowd to what flatland is. I thought that would be the goal of what flatlanders want. I know its Redbull and its what they would like...but we are loaning the talent. Cant contest's remain a battle of ability?
I think Redbull just distanced itself from the average JOe rider...so I'd say rully that "there's always price to pay, right?"..but I guess thats directed more torwards Redbull...It's not like 5000 pissed off flatlanders means anything anyways...its just sad when our best sponsor's probabaly world wide are relying on people who aren’t actual repping us. I mean was this an actual REdbull decisions or a couple people with agendas...I mean if the CEO and CFO were sitting right in the crowd watching..Im sure they'd be largely disappointed by Justin's "performance"... :huh:
I know I'm insane but I am still grounded enough to know that its all a blur to Joe publis and ESPECIALLY to suity Bob Dobalina's....I really would like to see how they came to a decisions on what's flashy enough to begin with...is there a points system? any points? statistics or something ? reference chart or something?
Battle format IS the future..REdbull IS the future..mindless entertainment is the future when we havent even let people know what we are yet...
so Justin lay off a bit on those hiker flip variations and progression ins tricks...if you gotta eat...you better learn to spin and you better learn to keep that chin up and smile like Miss Texas...nahhh you dont need your eyes to balance...punishment for progression? they'll appreciate it you when your dead. no problem Buckshot shorty didnt make a ****ing dime either!
Heads know!
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
While Justin may be one of the best contest riders in the world, I wouldn't rank him in the top ten best riders.
I am very curious to see your worlds best top ten riders list.
It would be a bunch of old heads that have proven themselves throughout the years to be versatile in all types of flat. The kind of guys who have done or can do pretty much everything. It's just MY opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
People like Jones, Gouin, DeGroot, Steingrabber, Meyer, etc...
I think you run into a diffeence in what people are looking for...I personally have a top ten of all time list...then a top ten of riders I'd like to see riding in their own personal lot at home ...it'd be cool to field a Madden All TIme versus current blahzay blahzay. I think it'd be an excellant video series...seriously OSD!!!!
but for a current contest I think people still want to see whats hot right now...and I think Justins hot enough...its not realy a best of all time thingy.
and I'm never wrong Brett. proven over and over....lol
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Jeff- It was said that Justin was one of the best riders in the world. I disagreed with him on that point. Justin is great but there is something to be said for experience. Just wait 5 or 6 years and see what Justin is doing then!
Right now I do consider Justin to be one of the best contest riders. I doubt anyone would disagree. But contest riding is not everything. I was talking about everything. I guess you took my words out of context. Were you WRONG??? ;D
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Possibly, possibly..but we are talking about a contest...I think that's what Chris was talking about.
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with all this digression I don't even know what we were talking about in the first place! It's hell getting old.
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I catch myself responding to stuff from protyle post's in 1998...
during luncheon meetings with our management team here in 2007...
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man props to justin, if i was one of the best in the world and didnt get the invite id be pitching a fit.thats pretty good money on the line.
While Justin may be one of the best contest riders in the world, I wouldn't rank him in the top ten best riders.
I am very curious to see your worlds best top ten riders list.
It would be a bunch of old heads that have proven themselves throughout the years to be versatile in all types of flat. The kind of guys who have done or can do pretty much everything. It's just MY opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
People like Jones, Gouin, DeGroot, Steingrabber, Meyer, etc...
Except proving himself troughout the years Justin fits in your criteria perfectly I guess...
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To be perfectly honest Brett, after watching Justin fool around, I highly.. HIGHLY doubt there is anything that he can't do that any of those riders above can.
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TJ- You may be right. I have only ridden with Justin a couple of times. He can do a lot more than his contest stuff for sure. I guess I'm not familar enough with his riding to list him in my top 10. I do know that riders reach their peak usually after 25 when the years of riding have added to their talent.
Things are only gonna get better for all of you young guys.
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Justin Is an excellent rider and he deserved to be there just as much if not MORE than some of the people there. He got the shaft on this one.
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What do you mean DESERVED? I don't like that word. Sure, Justin could be thrown in the mix and fit in. Red Bull is putting on a contest. They get to pick the riders. There is no qualifying. It's a private party. Maybe it's their loss that he won't be there.
I have nothing against Justin. This topic just gets me because everyone is getting so worked up over a frickin' contest and who's invited and who isn't. WHO CARES? Does it impact YOU? If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't make up drama. There is no conspiracy against Justin or flatland. It is what it is. The only people that DESERVE to give a crap are Justin and his wife. They are the ones directly effected.
This is as bad as a bunch of drunks at a bar arguing over who the best quarterback is.
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word
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I read this and it reminds me of Trevor a few years back. He seemed to get a bad rep. because he was winning all the time. It looks like Justin is getting the same deal.
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What do you mean DESERVED? I don't like that word. Sure, Justin could be thrown in the mix and fit in. Red Bull is putting on a contest. They get to pick the riders. There is no qualifying. It's a private party. Maybe it's their loss that he won't be there.
I have nothing against Justin. This topic just gets me because everyone is getting so worked up over a frickin' contest and who's invited and who isn't. WHO CARES? Does it impact YOU? If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't make up drama. There is no conspiracy against Justin or flatland. It is what it is. The only people that DESERVE to give a crap are Justin and his wife. They are the ones directly effected.
This is as bad as a bunch of drunks at a bar arguing over who the best quarterback is.
most those drunks in the bar dont go out and play football everyday.and quarterbacks arent exactly struggling..I think if you care about flatland it matters.
I mean if we dont ever have opinions how can you form standards period? In an aspect of life?
and who really created this? The interview from what I can tell occured directly because of this issue..so in fact the only reason this thread is thriving is because the promoter felt the need to explain, but without much explaining.
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I care about flatland but I don't see the big deal. A private contest invited who they want. If it was a big deal concerning who shows up and who isn't, everyone would boycott. As long as big money is being thrown out there, people will show.
It's just like the X Games. Everyone invited figured they would cash in while they could. It's a big contest but ramp guys don't complain who is or isn't there.
Contests, sponsors, video parts, the internet isn't flatland. Riding your bike in a parking lot is flatland.
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I care about flatland but I don't see the big deal. A private contest invited who they want. If it was a big deal concerning who shows up and who isn't, everyone would boycott. As long as big money is being thrown out there, people will show.
It's just like the X Games. Everyone invited figured they would cash in while they could. It's a big contest but ramp guys don't complain who is or isn't there.
Contests, sponsors, video parts, the internet isn't flatland. Riding your bike in a parking lot is flatland.
I wasnt talking about boycotting. I was simply saying their decision sucks and it'd be better for them to atleast do a better job of explaining it when they obviously felt it needed an explanation. Thus the interview. Having an opinion about someones decision isnt taking their god given right to hold any contest however exclussive they want it to be away from them. Redbulls is free to run their organization as they fit..I beg for people to observe their free market rights all the time. I also say no ones above judgement.
Justin not gettin invited as arguably the best CURRENT rider in the world or atleast as one of them Is a joke. Im not calling for a government intervention Brett or an international boycott by flatlanders that might cost REDbull $2.35 next year. I dont even believe in market based "revenge" or extortion I leave that for Unions and activist's. Im saying I think what Zeis said was silly, unfounded, and they can run their contest. He's doing just fine.
The best rider on Earth not being invited to the best flatland contest in the world..is something to stress abot but panick or wahtever you think we are doing by merely discussing it.
So I guess based upon that then no private company should be judged for its private decision. I could never say that Marge Shot investing in the Reds was a bad deal for the Reds. Or however tht devilish women ended up at the helm.
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It's just like the X Games. Everyone invited figured they would cash in while they could. It's a big contest but ramp guys don't complain who is or isn't there.
What if Mirra did not get a invite to the x games. He would be pissed, but the other might not say anything so they could get a chance to win.
Martti probably is not upset that Justin will not be there.
I like to watch both of them go at it for the top spot.
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It's just like the X Games. Everyone invited figured they would cash in while they could. It's a big contest but ramp guys don't complain who is or isn't there.
What if Mirra did not get a invite to the x games. He would be pissed, but the other might not say anything so they could get a chance to win.
Martti probably is not upset that Justin will not be there.
I like to watch both of them go at it for the top spot.
After what went down at Flat Ring, Justin v. Martti is the most interesting story in the flatland comp circuit right now. Hell, it might be the *only* storyline in the flatland comp circuit. Not setting up a potential Justin v. Martti rematch was just stupid. I know I'll be much less interested in what happens at this thing. The sponsors should be pissed...
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do something real, people... not just those words and computer thingy...
i never feel flatland in this thread :huh:
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hello guys!
i just started to read some of the first posts and was already fet up with it.
most of you guys are not involved in the whole contest scene thing, so please so me a favour and stop posting those unqualified comments.
i think it's a good thing that there's another cob, so be happy about it!
who knows, maybe there will be a 4th edition and all your favourite riders will be taken into consideration.
1 thing would be interesting for me: which pro is pissed about not being invited? i'm not, although im must admit that it would be great to take part someday.
regards,
seppl
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I think Andy has thrown petrol (gas for you American guys) on the flames with his statements in the interview. Clearly there were a lot of people angry by Justin (and perhaps some other riders) not getting an invite. It just seems like such absurd reasoning on Andy's part in his explanation of how people were chosen. All this nonsense about the flatland lifestyle, people being contest machines etc. That's what got to me in all honesty.
Sure the organisers can pick whichever 18 riders they want and that's their perogative (I'm pretty sure I never complained about Justin not being selected in the big COB thread). It's just the bullsh*t reasons Andy gave have probably made things worse!
:rolleyes:
Si.
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ok seppl..we shouldnt critique anything based on what your saying.. :rolleyes:
the particular rider doesnt have to say anything to anyone in any open forum or not...people can be upset that the rider who has better finishes than almost anyone if not anyone over the last two years wasnt invited to a flatland contest..its ok to have that opinion ADN express it. Just like Zeis can address his opinion in a one way venue.
I cant believe you guys are reducing a topic of open opinion to drama...so anything we discuss online you dont agree with is drama....if two guys dont agree that red's the best color...and then they talk about it...then its drama..geez. Thats why forums DIE. People get tired of waiting to see how people will critique everydamn thing they post they quit...BRett even if we were arm chair quarterbacks drunk at the bar it wouldnt matter...at least discussion is occuring..instead of two post a day trying to figure out the best frame.
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I cant believe you guys are reducing a topic of open opinion to drama...so anything we discuss online you dont agree with is drama....if two guys dont agree that red's the best color...and then they talk about it...then its drama..geez. Thats why forums DIE. People get tired of waiting to see how people will critique everydamn thing they post they quit...BRett even if we were arm chair quarterbacks drunk at the bar it wouldnt matter...at least discussion is occuring..instead of two post a day trying to figure out the best frame.
Jeff you just hit the nail on the head and through the "board".
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do something real, people... not just those words and computer thingy...
i never feel flatland in this thread :huh:
[sarcasm]Seriously people, you need to stop posting on this internet thingy and go out and ride your bike like I'm doing. Right now. I'm riding my bike right now and certainly *not* typing this post on my computer because I'm hardcore and I don't use computers. Ever. I live the flatland lifestyle all day every day even when I'm pooping.[/sarcasm]
Hey, do you think that's why Justin didn't get invited to the C.O.B.? Because they found out he posted on an internet forum and therefore couldn't have been living the flatland lifestyle 24/7/365?
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Hey, do you think that's why Justin didn't get invited to the C.O.B.? Because they found out he posted on an internet forum and therefore couldn't have been living the flatland lifestyle 24/7/365?
Well I hope not. Martti and pretty much every major pro used to lurk on pedal. Hell, Alex Jumelin has a f*cking myspace for crying out loud.
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Brett, I couldn't disagree with your views on this more. Just because such moves don't affect you directly doesn't mean they are no harm to 'flatland'. Imagine a young up and commer, maybe the next Justin or whoever, they see the B.S. politics and think "man, forget riding and contests. I'm gonna go shoot hoops instead". Another potential creative spark gets put out. Sure RedBalls has the right to choose whoever they want, just as we have the right to critique them for the poor and biased judgement of the organizers. People need to start looking beyond their navels and see the bigger picture. ***We are allowed to think that something is wrong***
Just as the COB event organizers have the 'right' to choose who is invited to the contest, a coach has the right to pick who will make the team; but, if the coach only chooses white players even though black players are trying out and are better skilled (regardless if they don't fit the 'lifestyle' of the other players), then the coach is doing something wrong and should be called on it. Similarly, Justin is certainly at the top competitive skill level and just as certaily his exclusion is just wrong.
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is the 'justin' we're talking about actually black ???
c'mon people. this is a show and the performers had been chosen. let's just sit back and enjoy the show.
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c'mon people. this is a show and the performers had been chosen. let's just sit back and enjoy the show.
For the hundreth time in how long...
THIS IS NOT A SHOW, THIS IS A CONTEST. THIS IS A PERSONS WAY OF SUPPORTING THEMSELF. THIS IS THEIR LIVELIHOOD. UNTIL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE TOYING WITH THE WAY PEOPLE LIVE THEIR LIVES BY JACKED EVENTS NOTHING WILL CHANGE.
Sorry for the mutt speak but for christs sake, what the **** don't you understand about this when there is money involved!?!
What almost NONE of you guys get is that while it's our hobby,it's their lives.
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I don't think my opinion has any more clout that anyone else's; however, I can't believe Justin got the boot!!! You don't like his attitude? You don't like his personality? You don't like his character? **** YOU! You want the best? pffhh! Seppl! I respect you, I think your one of the guys who would get this! This is a joke! Justin is....by far, one of the best!!! A Martti/Justin match-up is what could bring flatland to another level!!! ( If this is what Red Bull is trying to do?) I'm not going to rant any further. Justin should be there, anything else is just, well Chicken ****! I have no ties! That feels nice! Get real! COB, not real!!! I just want to add...Red Bull has done alot for flatland...and if this is not their doing, so be it. Props!!! This is my observation and I may not have all the facts! Thanks for your help, putting flatland on the map!!! Justin, I love what you are doing!!!
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i'm not defending/against anyone, this is solely my opinion.
IMO, if it really IS a contest, then they shouldn't just pick riders to enter. everybody will have exactly the same rights to enter. the best thing they can do is to limit the maximum contestants and not just picking anyone of them.
i have the COB2 dvd, i believe most of us had seen it already.. it's all a 'show' in form of a 'contest'. show = demo (entertaining purpose only). is Justin deserve to be there? that's fully organizer's right/decision. he manages the show, he chooses the performers. more or less similar like Lee M's inertia show team. he manages the whole show, then he chooses all the performers. the difference is Lee pick the form of pure demo/show while the COB is in the form of a contest. can you blame Lee if he's not picking Martti, for example? i guess not.
as for toying with other's lives...
well i do have enormous respect for those who decides to live out of flatland in every aspect of it. that's really really really tough life to live. however, it doesn't give anyone in that profession the right/obligation to enter in every competition/contest/show/demo/whatever you call it.
yups it's the way they live their life. and please remember it is also their decision, which in any way they have to be responsible for. and MAYBE, stop blaming other people for not being succeed in it. (in this case, invited to COB which means tons of money involved in it). i respect justin's ability. those skills will cost me tens of years of learning if i'm into it. but then again, look above ^^.
back to the matter, COB is Red Bull's event through the hands of Andy Zeiss. like it or hate it, they have 100% rights of how they will make the event will look like.
maybe there are a few of Andy's statements that's incorrect in our ears, like using flatland excuses and things... but as for picking riders, i think this is my vision of it.
thanks for reading!
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yeah but isnt this contest supposed to have the best riders in the world?hense the invite only.yeah it is a show, a show of the best riders in the world.(all ecept one)
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to quote chris moeller from like 89-90, "Judge not, lest ye be outta change at the taco bell." you gotta clean your own house before you bug out on your neighbors house. Plus, the nestle quick bunny said "the best things come to those who wait!"
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yeah but isnt this contest supposed to have the best riders in the world?hense the invite only.yeah it is a show, a show of the best riders in the world.(all ecept one)
Then lets have redbull pay out everyone equally as a big old show instead of having people compete for money.
Sorry, this just has got to be the most insane sh*t ever. I fail to see how Travis Collier is more of a contest rider than Justin. Not that there is a problem with Travis.. but it's not like he has been placing 1st and 2nd at most major comps for the last couple of years...
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If you look at this from a "corporate marketing" point of view, this is probably exactly what Red Bull and the organizer's wanted to happen. You leave out one of the best contest riders in the world, get everyone all riled up on internet forums and look at all the free publicity they are getting.
Lets say they left off "Joe Shmoe" from the list who doesnt finish as high or is as popular a rider, not really gonna upset people as much.
Leave out Justin, and now the much anticipated "Justin vs. Martti 2" showdown isnt gonna happen, so they are getting free publicity for COB, and in a way hyping up their next contest, which undoubtly both will be at.
Remember, publicist's get paid to publicize and there is no publicity like free publicity
This is just the way that I see it, Im no marketing (or flatland) expert by any means.
Oh, and believe me, theirs Red Bull and the organizers reading all this hype on message boards, patting themselves on the back on what a good job they have done on their "marketing strategy".
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If you look at this from a "corporate marketing" point of view, this is probably exactly what Red Bull and the organizer's wanted to happen. You leave out one of the best contest riders in the world, get everyone all riled up on internet forums and look at all the free publicity they are getting.
Lets say they left off "Joe Shmoe" from the list who doesnt finish as high or is as popular a rider, not really gonna upset people as much.
Leave out Justin, and now the much anticipated "Justin vs. Martti 2" showdown isnt gonna happen, so they are getting free publicity for COB, and in a way hyping up their next contest, which undoubtly both will be at.
Remember, publicist's get paid to publicize and there is no publicity like free publicity
This is just the way that I see it, Im no marketing (or flatland) expert by any means.
Oh, and believe me, theirs Red Bull and the organizers reading all this hype on message boards, patting themselves on the back on what a good job they have done on their "marketing strategy".
that is accualy very true... there getting free publicity out the ass. it still was at justins expense.
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It's a showcase of pro riders that pays out money...
If COB is doing so much for the future of flatland why is there no amateur class? Are the new amateur riders not the future of our sport?
I just think to select 18 pros for a contest, is not really a true contest. Yes is contest between the 18 invited riders. If it was open registration there might be like 40 or 50 pro riders...that would be a good contest.
...but what the hell do I know!
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Another thing, when myself and 2 others were setting up Battle At The Beach we were on pedal every day to answer questions.
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If you look at this from a "corporate marketing" point of view, this is probably exactly what Red Bull and the organizer's wanted to happen. You leave out one of the best contest riders in the world, get everyone all riled up on internet forums and look at all the free publicity they are getting.
Lets say they left off "Joe Shmoe" from the list who doesnt finish as high or is as popular a rider, not really gonna upset people as much.
Leave out Justin, and now the much anticipated "Justin vs. Martti 2" showdown isnt gonna happen, so they are getting free publicity for COB, and in a way hyping up their next contest, which undoubtly both will be at.
Remember, publicist's get paid to publicize and there is no publicity like free publicity
This is just the way that I see it, Im no marketing (or flatland) expert by any means.
Oh, and believe me, theirs Red Bull and the organizers reading all this hype on message boards, patting themselves on the back on what a good job they have done on their "marketing strategy".
What would they gain by a few flatlanders talking about it on a forum that only flatlanders read?
Cob always have a capacity crowd.
Maybe the Miller-Kuoppa feud was a publicity stunt. :rolleyes:
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Another thing, when myself and 2 others were setting up Battle At The Beach we were on pedal every day to answer questions.
yeah but your web page had star wars music. so it kind of makes your helpfulness null and void :P
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We should have banded you from our contest because you didn't like Star Wars. joke!
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We should have banded you from our contest because you didn't like Star Wars. joke!
Of all the things I would be banned from a contest for, not liking star wars is like... number #73,621.
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We should have banded you from our contest because you didn't like Star Wars. joke!
Of all the things I would be banned from a contest for, not liking star wars is like... number #73,621.
Liking Star Wars is an integral part of living the "flatland lifestyle." No wonder you didn't get an invite to COB.
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i like star wars